To which extent do women like pc gaming

[Xiuhcoatl]

Hi,
First off, this post will be a response to more than one poster in this thread (and a commentary on the article on the WomenGamers site) as I am not inclined to make more than one post in a thread (or more than one post per month for that matter), so I apologize to people like Elric who get perturbed with people who do not post in the right sequence. Secondly, I am not going to answer the poll eventhough I am posting here in this thread, because I do not see how my answer will make a difference to people who are not going to take the replies seriously.

Like Pete mentioned in his response, there are people, myself included, who prefer to remain annonymous gender-wise on public forums, and as Feryar stated, it doesn't matter if you know the gender of the people you game with online as long as the gaming experience is rewarding in some way for all participants. People who want to assume that I am of the same gender as the character (class) I am playing when I meet them do not bother me. I will not bother to correct them, especially since it might be the only source of amusement I get out of the game session (in game banter seemed more prevalent in CD than in D2).

From my experiences on B.net and in various forums, I have noticed that many people who claim to be female do so to receive special attention. Because there are not many female gamers or posters on forums, many people who enjoy posing as female or who are female and flaunt this fact, do so with the intention of being treated differently which can include being immediately accepted into a clique, or not being flamed for statements they make or behavior that would otherwise be considered distasteful or unacceptable. That said, I wonder how many female lurkers will announce themselves =P.

The article at the end of Bun Bun's link and ShadowHM's observation about the absence of female hack and slashers in internet cafes has more to do, imho, with sociology more than with whether or not females enjoy a certain genre of games. The majority of American females have been socialized into having a different set of priorities than those of their male counterparts. Women tend to spend their time and money in more materialistic pursuits than on entertainment and amusement, especially in public places. Until recently, it was considered "unlady-like" or "socially unacceptable" for women to be seen playing games in a gaming arcade or even playing video games at home on a console or computer. Conversations between women discussing a (video) game in public is still a rarity. I would not attribute this to the fact that women are not as competetive as males or that they are too uncomfortable to enjoy playing "head to head" games with "men they haven't met or can't see". Back in the Diablo days, one of the best duelists I met was female (undefeated in her former clan), and she mainly played a warrior. While I do believe that socialization has a lot to do with the lower number of female gamers, I do not put much stock in the "Pyramid of Power" theory mentioned by Sheri Graner Ray, or the other ridiculous statements and claims that she made during her interview.

"...most females don't play the fighting games....Not because they are "gorey" or "yucky" because they get BORED beating on the same character over and over again for no reason they can see!" -Sheri Graner Ray

I would expect the president of a software company who considers herself a gamer would have a higher understanding of why people, whether male or female, enjoy a game than what her statement suggests. The early video games were mostly about improving personal skills-eye hand coordination, reflexes, memorizing layouts etc-which led to the thrill of getting to the next level of challenge or beating a high score. They were not about enjoying pointless violence as Sheri suggests, although the violence surely has its appeal to many fans of fighting games. Modern arcade and video games seem to put more stock in the thrill factor, because, quite frankly, many gamers are thrill addicts. There are thrill seekers and there are those who are content to live without expending the effort to find such excitement, and imho, this has nothing to do with whether a person is born male or female. In games like Diablo, the main appeal is the treasure finding, unless one plays the multiplayer version where the focus shifts to the challenge and excitement of co-op play. The storyline and quests in Diablo and D2, imo, were boring. I do not expect or want a "good story" in a computer action game and I despise quests (do you hear this Black Isle, Bioware, Blizzard?). If I want to role play, then I will play a pen and paper RPG and if I want a good story I will read a book or write it myself.

At gaming conventions, where people pay money to attend and participate in games for a weekend, the ratio of female participants is much higher than in places such as internet cafes probably because the people attending the convention have dedicated that time with the intent of playing games, whereas people at internet cafes are there because they have no other plans (and apparently, insufficient internet access or access to a computer at home). Of the people who play online games, it seems that female gamers have a higher "social" status than their male counterparts. By this I mean, they are more likely to be engaged in other social activities and therefore less likely to be found in internet cafes than male gamers.

While there are still a higher percentage of serious male gamers than female gamers, that number is decreasing. With regard to the low number of female posters on the LL, I will say that contrary to popular belief, males tend to be "chattier" online and in real life.

Xi

[Occhidiangela]

I will say that contrary to popular belief, males tend to be "chattier" online and in real life.

I have not found that to be true in general in my experience, indeed, I have found that the contrasts in the men/women and chat volume IRL to be very venue / company dependent.

While I tend to be verbose in some setting, including this one, in others I am quite content to let others fill the air with sound/chat.

I enjoyed you once a month post, Xi, and hunger for more . . . like a big dram doughnut with cream! :D

EDIT: Can't Spell Doughnut on the first try! A fie on me!

[Elric of Grans]

Hail Xi,

"...people who do not post in the right sequence."

Actually, when you are not replying to anyone, there is no correct sequence. I get anoyed when people reply to someone, and do not give any indication of whom it is they are replying. For example, I am clearly replying to you; if you remove the hailing, the quotes, and put this reply at the bottom of the thread, who the heck am I talking to? Add in a few hundred other replies, and make this a flame... it gets very confusing ;)

"I will say that contrary to popular belief, males tend to be "chattier" online and in real life"

Probably true. I'm rumoured to have a lot to say online and, believe it or not, I can be a heck of a lot chattier when I'm faced with a real person. "You're still here?" and "Are you still talking?" are questions I hear a lot from third parties once I get started ;) Of cause, the content of what is discussed tends to be a lot more different, and the stereotype I am familiar with relates to that: women are supposed to gossip more, while guys are supposed to only talk about sport and sex. Now, given I am not a woman, I have no place in saying what women say, but a lot of the time the stereotype for men is not far off the mark... of cause when I'm in the conversation, no one knows where it'll be: I have a tendancy to hit tangents, which cause the topic of conversation to change drastically in very short spaces of time :lol:

[[wcip]Angel]

What ?? Me lie ??  ;)

<-- Male / 24 yrs old / 6'4 240 lbs / Harvard Graduate - working as a rocket scientist for NASA .

Did you have Mr. Aratogama or Ms Stein for quantum physics? The people I spoke to said that Mr. Aratogama was the best lecturer they ever had, but I really enjoyed Ms Stein's classes. She was a riot! :)

[Count Duckula]

Like Pete mentioned in his response, there are people, myself included, who prefer to remain annonymous gender-wise on public forums, and as Feryar stated, it doesn't matter if you know the gender of the people you game with online as long as the gaming experience is rewarding in some way for all participants.

I agree. Casual online gaming, doesn't really matter. To me, a forum is different. Not because I want to categorize people based on their characteristics, but I want to know more about people in my life. Gender is only an issue when the gender is called into question for some reason or another.

(I think the post on pain happened on this board, about how someone had horrible pain-filled things happen to him like having his midsection sliced open so he could see ribs, and comparing that to zipping one's necessities into their jeans zipper. I don't have the right necessities to know exactly what happens. I think this is a point where all the men read and nod and go "yeah, that's right" and women read and think "context tells me that's right, but I don't exactly know why." Maybe men feel the same way about brassieres, aureolae, and other women-related things.)

Anyway...

I only get huffy in game when someone makes assumptions as to who I am instead of asking me.

I do make a point of being female, because of what I've seen on Battle.net, there are few women who aren't shameless hussies or disillusioned pubescents. Granted, I spend (or spent, nowadays) a lot of time in the realms and in public games, gathering information for one project or another or just as general entertainment. I flaunt it to be treated as female, like the days where I change from my standard t-shirt and jeans fare to something more feminine to show the world that hey, I'm female! Unless <obviousfemalestatus=ON>, I hope that my words and actions are from Pirengle the Person and not Pirengle the Woman, just the same as my words are not Pirengle the Jew, Pirengle the Bisexual, Pirengle the Stereotyping Personality Trait, but just Pirengle.

(Time to eat pancakes and study for exam #2!)

[WarLocke]

I miss Xiuhcoatl. :(

- WL

[--Pete]

Hi,

I miss Xiuhcoatl.

As do we all. Hopefully a game will come down the pike that'll get as all playing again.

--Pete

[ShadowSeer]

Ehh.. i remember when i first pked my future husband or i should say attempted to pk him, he was a sorc with the legendary apoc spell the book not the staff i think he was 76 legit before they took the spell out in the game from what i knew i thought he was trying to use his staff but to my surpise he was actually using the damn spell... i was with my friends when i went hostile with him then all of a sudden he telported right in front of me used the etheral spell that drained the mana and life and then he nailed me and all my friends with a big old blast, was shocked and accused him of cheating.. he said how could i cheat i am 76 your 77rogue, and i just teleported in front of you and hit you with{trying to remember the spell not blood star,} the one witches use in hell before diablo that one i said you have 2 illiegal spell apoc and that other spell that is blue and he said i will do something to prove you that i am able to have the spell he striped everything of,f his staff which was a legit staff, he went naked into hell with me and asked me to go hostile with me
so we went down to the level 17 and i went hostile and he kill me with out a second notice he did it again teleported and shot the blue thing and then apoced me
i was just like WHOA!

[TaMeOlta]

Angel,May 14 2003, 11:48 PM]

What ?? Me lie ??&nbsp; ;)

<-- Male / 24 yrs old / 6'4 240 lbs / Harvard Graduate - working as a rocket scientist for NASA .

Did you have Mr. Aratogama or Ms Stein for quantum physics? The people I spoke to said that Mr. Aratogama was the best lecturer they ever had, but I really enjoyed Ms Stein's classes. She was a riot! :)

:o OK , Ok .... I lied ! Quit trying to trick me :P !

[Refrigerator]

What a coincidince(<---I hate that word; it's too hard to spell!)! I am too! ;)


EDIT: Oh no, someone figured you out! I'm caught too! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!

[ShadowSeer]

soon to be 33female/husband soon to be 44 male of course one daughter soon to be 1 year old angel

[Fragbait]

Sorry if you feel this was trolling.

When added to the fact that some women prefer not to reveal their gender online, the combination makes the "poll" portion of this tread a waste of time, a joke. Without the poll option, perhaps this thread would have been started with some meaningful discussion. As it is, it seems more flame bait and/or trolling.

I didn't think so, and it seems to have been a quite interesting thread while I was offline *rofl*...
Well ok, some females dared to push the female button, fair enough. I'll stay with my 30% estimation though.... :D

Thank you for being so nice to me btw. It isn't always like that :rolleyes: , but I'm working hard on it.

Because I started the poll, I will bring it to an end (for now):

Male, 20 years, handsome and sexy :D , German, even Bavarian, just finished military service, going to university in October, posting from the flatrate mainstream connection in my work :P .

PS: for anyone who wants to stay anonymous, just feel free to do so.

Special thanks goes to Count Duckula. She inspired me to this topic (although not poll :D ) and seems to be really nice. Feel yourself virtually kissed on the hand, my countess... :lol:

Hope I don't annoyed anyone to much, have fun!


Greetings Fragbait

[Count Duckula]

I was originally going to send this as a PM, but decided to send this to the whole forum, because this makes the fourth time tonight where I have provided the spark, went away for a while, and came back to find The Beautiful Forest of Rare and Old Trees burnt to little more than matchbook waste because of my spark.

Fragbait, you need not apologize for your viewpoint unless you are outright and intentionally causing trouble or harm. I don't think you are. However, I think Pete was right in your sig quote.

Yes, that breaks the rules.

Yes, it sounds unkind.

Yes, it's a needed kick in the kiester. And y'know something? There is no way to soften the impact. Around this place, you learn and last, or you don't and don't last very long.

(The other wonderful thing about Pete's ammunition, and Occhi's, and Nicodemus', and even Xi's, is that the barrel is pointed at you for a reason. I've stared down the sights of those big guns on occasion, and there's always been a reason, and I'm usually at fault and correct myself. Or it's a good sign I need to figure out why the big guns are pointed at me! :) Also keep in mind that the moderators curb the more, erm, acidic wordsmiths at times. If you want to address this problem, that's why the Private Message and the moderators were invented. Have fun. :))

Xi's post was a Susan moment. A Susan moment, as defined by my 10th grade english class, was whenever the really smart yet quiet Susan responded to any question the teacher asked. She didn't get asked often, but she always had an answer that was so completely on target (and delivered in a molasses-soft Southern accent to boot) that there was 15-30 seconds of silence and the rest of the discussion was either reiterating or something completely different than her answer.

I think people associated it with trolling because of the poll attachment and for newbie reasons. You're new around here, and it shows. Makes me remember my newbie days.

Instead of posting Pete's flaming wrath in your signature (that right there is holding up a big neon sign saying "FLAME ME!"), why not take his advice? Sit back, grab your favorite beverage, and read back posts at the Lounge, at Atma's Tavern, and the Armory. Then don't post a thing for a week or so. Sit, wait, watch. The urge to post immediately to anything that looks vaguely interesting will go away after a while. Soon, you'll be able to tell different discussions apart Things like leisure topics, hot button topics, philosophical topics, just plain stupid and nobody should ever post on them topics, and the all-important "FLAME ME!" topics which people think this has turned into but it hasn't quite yet.

Another tip I have found quite handy: before you hit the "send post" button, ask yourself, 'is this post really necessary?' If you read over your post and it's not adding anything significant to the conversation, why waste time/energy/forum bandwidth to post it? If I had a dime for every post or email I've done that with since the time I got the advice, I could pay for a year at Hollins. No joke.

I hope you're still wanting to kiss this hand now. :( Perhaps if I offered you a lady's favor? :)

[Fragbait]

Hail Count Duckula,

I guess I am what you describe:

Posting on every topic that looks interesting.
Not knowing how to handle big guns, yet.
Trolling even, thanks to Occhi I now really know what that means.

I have edited my signature. Hope everybody can accept that one.
The pieces of advice you give me, I take seriously, for sure.
I still want to kiss that hand.. :D

But I've decided it is better if I stop posting here.(lurkerlounge) :huh:





For now. I'll be back when I'm not that obviously a noob anymore...


Goodbye, Fragbait

[Xiuhcoatl]

Hi,
I'm not quiet; I'm just antisocial. A friend of mine even had a shirt printed for me: "Leave me alone. I am a hermit and I don't like you."

Okay now my quota for June is used up too. See you in a few months!

Xi

[Hammerskjold]

ShadowHM:

>However, the preponderance of gamers in the 'slay the monsters/find the treasure' games are typically male, or so it seems to me. When I take a peek in the local internet café, there are never any 'girls' in the gaming section.

I use to visit a couple of net cafe's, one in little chinatown area, and the other in the downtown area.

Chinatown net cafe, catering to mostly gamers, at late night- dawn:

- Approximately 1/4 of the people there were women. Sometimes more. The most popular programs going on seems to be CounterStrike, Diablo2x, Lineage, Starcraft, chat-messenger and some sort of webcasting program. While most of the guys are playing the games most of the times, it's not uncommon to see women playing along side. And not uncommon to see the men watching the webcast\chatting.

Downtown net cafe, catering to general web browsing for university students, and gaming. Late night-dawn:

- After around 11:00 pm, most of the students doing research online or checking e-mails either heads home or to a pub. ;) The average mix for students, hard to put a definitive number but I'd guestimate 1/2 to 1/3 are women. After 11-midnight, usually most of the gamers come in. Very rarely there's women, sometimes 1/10, or 2/10. CStrike and D2x are the popular games running, with Red Alert or some sort of RTS a distant third.

This has been awhile ago, maybe 6-7 months. So for all I know a lot of things have changed. But I did remember seeing female gamers in a net cafe, shooting it up and hacking things right along side the males.

[Elric of Grans]

Hail Duckula,

I don't know with Nico always having a good reason... many years ago, he made several comments about how I post too much, and really lost it when I once made I-don't-know-how-many-hundred posts in a couple of hour period (and it was actual discussion, not mere spam). Totally unfair of cause ;) *cough*

"Another tip I have found quite handy: before you hit the "send post" button, ask yourself, 'is this post really necessary?'"

Couldn't have put it better myself. Nico and another guild friend of ours both told me the same thing: best advice I ever got online. I now rethink each reply before I hit the reply button, before I start typing, and as I reread it before hitting the Add Reply button. It's really reduced my post rate, but has also improved the average quality of my posts. Basically, Treebeard had it right: if it's worth saying, it's worth taking a long time to say it :D

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

Couldn't have put it better myself. Nico and another guild friend of ours both told me the same thing: best advice I ever got online. I now rethink each reply before I hit the reply button, before I start typing, and as I reread it before hitting the Add Reply button.

As do I. Usually by typing the the fla... er, "reply" out in its entirety, rife with insults and profanity and insinuations about parental relationships. I might even try to make a point or two.

And then I delete it and backspace out. If I feel that the points I attempted to make were done with any skill, they might actually get posted. If I feel that the flam... er, "critique" was also well crafted, it may stay as well. The end result is that while I may indeed fire off sometimes... the Lounge in general has NO CLUE how acidic it could truely be. :ph34r:

Not the prettiest of personal growth techniques, but it's working. I don't scream obscenities at the monitor NEARLY as much as I used to, years ago.

I don't know with Nico always having a good reason... many years ago, he made several comments about how I post too much, and really lost it when I once made I-don't-know-how-many-hundred posts in a couple of hour period (and it was actual discussion, not mere spam). Totally unfair of cause&nbsp; *cough*

Yes, yes. And then there was the time I tackled, bound, gagged and trundled you off of the Draconian Empire forum. Overzealous on my part, I agree... however, it seemed to have started a tradition over there. ;)

*tips helm*