Terenas Friday, February 3

[Tal]

Fearing a guard is considered cheese?
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Kiting Drak is cheese if I read GG right.

[bonemage]

Kiting Drak is cheese if I read GG right.
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I read GG the same way, the kiting part was where I thought he laid the cheese. It's usually done by a hunter with aspect of the cheetah on. As Drakk is a melee class, and the hunter can grab aggro from distance, the hunter is then free to flee for a long time, usually until the two guards are dead. He then either FD or dies, having taken one for the team. This is just from what I've read different places. I've never seen Drakk, or even The Beast.

[Alram]

I'll second this -- let's make one good showing rather than two meh showings.  We probably will not have 10 (Yuri is likely to be in MC, not sure) and we'd be stretched thin.

I was with Diesirae and I had a different impression than swirly, only time will tell.  The impression I had was that they were unable to be successful in ZG on their own because they only had about 13 players of sufficient skill/reliability.  I think if we are bringing close to 10 to ZG with them there shouldn't be too much of an inequality.  I also think that showing up with just one or two doesn't send the right impression on that score.

But I also agree with swirly's assessment -- if it looks like we're the little tagalong that won't do.
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Prior to logging in and reading the most recent posts, my thoughts had been to send 5 people to UBRS with the Lost Souls and 3 along with Synergy. If Swirly and Xame also announced their intention to come with us on Friday night, then they could also join the Lost Souls group.

I never had the impression when I was speaking with Diesirae that he would consider the Lurkers to be tag-alongs. I think that he wants to build a relationship with us. I am of the opinion that since I already told him that we could send from 2 to 7 people on Friday night, and he agreed, then not sending anybody would be like going back on a commitment we had made.

I have not spoken with Diesirae since my chat with him earlier this week; I had been holding off until I knew what kind of showing we were going to have. I would like to get this issue resolved amongst us by this evening and then contact him. So please do post your thoughts and opinions.

Another possibility here is to work out an additional time when we could form parties with Synergy or the Lost Souls. I know that everybody would not be able to make it, but how about a group on Saturday night or Sunday afternoon?

[vor_lord]

Prior to logging in and reading the most recent posts, my thoughts had been to send 5 people to UBRS with the Lost Souls and 3 along with Synergy.  If Swirly and Xame also announced their intention to come with us on Friday night, then they could also join the Lost Souls group.
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I think my main reason for hesitating is that GG has indicated we would not be able to handle Drakk with 10, especially when it is two groups who haven't played together before.

But I will follow your judgment on the matter.

[vor_lord]

Kiting Drak is cheese if I read GG right.
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I can see that, you got a ton of room to run (all that way across that bridge back to The Beast.

I guess I'm surprised that he doesn't think we can do it with 10. My massive experience with Drakk (exactly one PUG run) led me to believe it wasn't too hard -- perhaps that is a misconception. We had 15, but many of them were total jokers (this is the run where the mage did all the pulling and took 65% of the damage in the raid).

We did have 3 priests, so perhaps the existence of extra healing made it seem easier. I just figured if 15 lackwits can take him with only one death, a group of 10 at our current gearing would be sufficient. There is probably more to the fight than I was aware of in my whackamole approach to that raid I was in.

[bonemage]

I think we should contact Diesirae, let him now that we can only send 1 or 2 people, and that it isn't really attractive to do so for either guild. Let him know that we WOULD like to party with his guild for the following week. 2-3 people sent along with Synergy would hurt the Lost Souls joint UBRS raid, bringing the numbers down to 10 or 11, probably to the point of not being able to down Drakk. It also won't be nearly as telling as a ZG run, which would be a nice crucible to test both the best of Synergy, and the lurkers. I still say we do one UBRS run this Friday with Lost Souls, or we run the risk of neither group being successful. I think he will be more than understanding that we didn't know how many people the other guild would be bringing, and so it was hard to plan. Now that we know more, it is less than ideal for us to still do something together this week. Also, trying to organize two raids with 3 guilds on one night would mean serious delays in both parties getting started, and would be a planning nightmare, with many roster changes done that night, both bad things for those that need to go to bed before the wee hours of the morning. If a reschedule with very valid reasons is going to upset Diesirae or his guild, then that is very telling. I'm sure Diesirae will see it's probably not in their best interest either. I think one of the reasons that they want to do something with us soon, is to strike while the iron is hot. Letting plans to work on a guild alliance get put off too long, and they probably won't happen. It's probably safe to assume that Diesirae was quite pleased with the 4 Lurkers he played with last week, and they don't want to let us get away. It's very hard to court two guilds at once, and something we wanted to avoid. Circumstances being what they are, I think we're doing what is best with what we have. Spreading ourselves too thin will make the evening less pleasant, and not tell us as much as I think we'd find out if we rescheduled with Synergy. I do think it is imperitive that we schedule a new time while we cancel this Friday. Just saying we can't do it would likely really cool things down. I strongly feel that this course of action is the best course for our pursuits with both guilds, not just one or the other, or to avoid planning headaches. Also, if both guilds prove to be valuable allies, the 3 guilds are very close to getting into MC, which is of interest to all 3 guilds.

[Kevin]

I read GG the same way, the kiting part was where I thought he laid the cheese.  It's usually done by a hunter with aspect of the cheetah on.  As Drakk is a melee class, and the hunter can grab aggro from distance, the hunter is then free to flee for a long time, usually until the two guards are dead.  He then either FD or dies, having taken one for the team.  This is just from what I've read different places.  I've never seen Drakk, or even The Beast.
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Yep, the kiting of Drakk I do not like. This is because Blizzard had stated (though I can't find it now) that this was not playing the encounter as it was intended to be played and that they were looking at fixing it. Of course since there have been two patches since then and the encounter has not been changed maybe they changed their stance.

I personally prefer to not fear a guard simply because that usually leads to more dead people in my experience as if a fear is resisted the warlock or a healer will die.

I prefer to offtank both guards and have two people that can build aggro on Drakk (so that when the tank gets conflagged Drakk doesn't go and eat the healer).

I think my main reason for hesitating is that GG has indicated we would not be able to handle Drakk with 10, especially when it is two groups who haven't played together before.

But I will follow your judgment on the matter.

Actually I think the very first 10 that we took into UBRS could have done it. But that group had. 2 Warriors, 2 hunters, a warlock, a mage, a rogue, a priest, a druid, and a shaman. That gives you enough tanking, enough healing and enough DPS. I would have done the encouter with warrior+shaman on Drakk, other warrior on guard, two pets on the other guard or fear it. The shaman does most of the healing on the warrior, the priest and druid just provide HoTs, until the warrior gets conflagged so then Drakk will turn to the shaman which should be after the first guard is dead, letting the priest heal the conflagged warrior. The druid + the shaman self healing with stuttering, could heal the shaman until conflag wears off and Drakk goes back to the warrior. HoT's on the remaining off tank should be enough until that guard is burned down. If you don't fear you kill the guard that is being pet tanked first, if you do fear you kill the warriors guard first then kill the other guard. Kill Drakk after the two guards are dead.

Ideally with the above group I would like to add either another healer or another tank to get to 11 and then just throw on more DPS on the way to 15. Another druid would be great to bear tank the first guard then heal for the rest of the fight as again the first guard should die before the first conflagg and its the conflag on the warrior that will really mess you up. But the right balance for a group of 10 can get him. The encounter because much harder if you only have one warrior and no other good ways to control the the guards. Fear is used so much because if you don't have enough warriors/shaman/paladins and no beastmaster hunters, the pets can't stand to the guards long (mortal strikes from them) so it becomes one of the only other methods to control the guards. If you kill the guards first and you lose your tanks you can kill Drakk via kiting him. If you have the guards alive they will generally resist one fear and kill someone key for the kiting process. Just another reason I like to eliminate them as fast as possible.

So that is what my feelings on it. I do believe the 10 Lurkers we took could have done it with the group balance we had. I don't know if 10 others with that balance could have done it.

I also think Durambar could potentially tank both of the guards as well in a scenario like that without sucking too much healing. I know we didn't start doing things like that on Stormrage till we got poople in epic gear but I think Durambar has enough tanking blues to pull it off as well.

You can also bring consumables to help with it. Greater Fire protection potions can help a lot both for a conflag and the other fire damage he does, it won't stop the conflag but it will save some healer mana as it absorbs some of the damage. Some superior defense pots for the tanks to help cut down on the damage, some of the winterfall juju to help with fire resist.

Prior to logging in and reading the most recent posts, my thoughts had been to send 5 people to UBRS with the Lost Souls and 3 along with Synergy. If Swirly and Xame also announced their intention to come with us on Friday night, then they could also join the Lost Souls group.

I never had the impression when I was speaking with Diesirae that he would consider the Lurkers to be tag-alongs. I think that he wants to build a relationship with us. I am of the opinion that since I already told him that we could send from 2 to 7 people on Friday night, and he agreed, then not sending anybody would be like going back on a commitment we had made.

I have not spoken with Diesirae since my chat with him earlier this week; I had been holding off until I knew what kind of showing we were going to have. I would like to get this issue resolved amongst us by this evening and then contact him. So please do post your thoughts and opinions.

Another possibility here is to work out an additional time when we could form parties with Synergy or the Lost Souls. I know that everybody would not be able to make it, but how about a group on Saturday night or Sunday afternoon?

I'm OK with us splitting our forces. But my one concern is, if we want to get to the 40 man content it sounds like Lost Souls and Synergy will need to work together as well. I don't know how much good us allying with 2 guilds does if those other two guilds don't ally as well. Though if we are just seeing about an alliance with just one of them to open ZG up immediately and this is our app process that is cool. But if we ally with both of them they need to ally with each other as well. :) So do we want to do Synergy+Lost Souls+Lurkers mixes on both groups?

If this is just our way to see which of the two for ourselves we want to ally with I think I would prefer one week we do some kind of even split group with one guild and the next we do an even split group with the other guild.

Just some thoughts.

[vor_lord]

If this is just our way to see which of the two for ourselves we want to ally with I think I would prefer one week we do some kind of even split group with one guild and the next we do an even split group with the other guild.
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My assumption was that this is a feeling out process for both guilds. If they both seem to be good alliance partners, then we have to introduce them to each other and that should open up possibilities for the 40 man dungeons which would be cool.

If only one of them seems to be a good fit, then we should have ZG enabled soon. If neither does, then we have at least discovered that.

I HOPE that both guilds work well with us, and then work well together, and we can give some 40 man stuff a go with them. But it's very early.

[bonemage]

My assumption was that this is a feeling out process for both guilds.  If they both seem to be good alliance partners, then we have to introduce them to each other and that should open up possibilities for the 40 man dungeons which would be cool.

If only one of them seems to be a good fit, then we should have ZG enabled soon.  If neither does, then we have at least discovered that.

I HOPE that both guilds work well with us, and then work well together, and we can give some 40 man stuff a go with them.  But it's very early.
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That was my impression as well. One of the things we explored with both guilds was what they wanted to do if we got numbers for 40. Both are interested in the 40 man instances, and so my hope is that both work out, and then to bring them together. Especially since Lost Souls is unlikely to open any doors to instances, due to their small size. If we bring 10, LS brings 5, and Synergy brings 15, we have 30, which should be enough for at least early work in MC. Diesirae is already FR geared, we'll need tranqs for the hunters from Luci, and more FR gear for tanks. 30 should be enough for that, and if the guild alliance (it would be one alliance of 3 guilds at this point) is in MC, it should make things easier for Synergy to recruit other players, or guilds. All 3 guilds have expressed a desire to play with mature players, so I don't see any major issues in uniting both guilds, if both are a match for us. However, in the evaluating period, we need to keep it to 2 guilds at a time, so each guild can accurately examine the other guild. We are certainly in that period, which is why I've suggested the one week with LS, one week with Synergy. It's probably best if both guilds know that we are working with another guild, so there aren't any surprises. Synergy already knows we have plans with another guild, and I think that Lost Souls should be told this Friday. They may have been reading these threads and already know by now. Either way, I think that both will be interested, provided that each guild can preserve what is most important to them. I think all have expressed wanting mature players, and to ensure that when they log, they can play with friends.

[VoiceMan]

I agree. I can relate to Swirly's fears. While I do want to see new content, I don't know if I want to do it at the expense of the good the Lurkers groups have going for them. I know I wouldn't be very thrilled with the idea of being one of 2 to 3 Lurkers going on a raid with Synergy, or anyone else. I think Bonemage is right, in that we need to reschedule a run with Synergy, and not try and do it this Friday at the same time we're trying to run UBRS with Lost Souls. I'm afraid of us biting off more than we can chew for one night. I say we focus on our UBRS run with Lost Souls this week, and let's look at Synergy next Friday. ZG would be fine with me for that. That would allow ten lurkers, and ten Synergy members. I too do not want to be 'tagalongs'. If we court both Synergy and Lost Souls at the same time this Friday night, one group or the other will end up really short on the Lurkers end of things, which might not be the best option. And another thing to consider, is both Synergy and Lost Souls are also examining us, as much as we're examining them, so I think we should be able to provide Lost Souls a good look at us this Friday night, which, at least in my opinion, means not splitting up our normal group too much. We may not get more than 5 members of Lost Souls Friday anyhow. There's a group of 15, which is plenty for UBRS, and they can get a good look at how we play. How's that for rambling? :P In summary, I personally would feel more comfortable rescheduling things with Synergy for another week, and not try things with them this Friday. I do NOT wish to loose the chance to work with Synergy, but I think we owe it both to Synergy and Lost Souls to be able to give them a good look at who we are, and how we operate. I'm not sure we can do that this Friday if we're splitting our attention too much. Just my 2 cents worth, if it's worth even that.

EDIT: Have we resolved the Teamspeak vs. Vent issue yet? Either by getting Vent to work under Linux, or Lost Souls willing and able to use TS? And if we go TS route, do we have a server in place they can log into? I don't know if we ever touched bases with Bolty regarding use of his server or not.

[Alram]

1.

I had a brief chat with Olan (Guild Master) of Lost Souls tonight. They have 5 level 60 players that are commited to coming this Friday. Hunter, shaman, warrior, druid, errr... warlock? It was a balanced 5 man party.

According to an officer in the Lost Souls I just spoke to, Olan came on and took a quick count. Everyone wasn't on. They might have more than 5.

We presently have 8 people commited to Friday night. That would make a party of 13-15 in UBRS. If Yuri and/or Swirly decide they can make it, then 1-2 people will be left out if there is a full party of 15 (8 Lurkers and 7 Lost Souls). Those 2 might then have the option of hooking up with Synergy. While they would be in a minority, they would definitely get the flavor of how Synergy plays.

2. Back in November in this thread I compiled a list of alternate times that we could schedule instance runs. Assuming that there are no changes we have as the most opportune time--
Sunday--late afternoon/early evening
Urza--57 warrior, Swirly--after 3, GG, Voiceman--finish by 5, Treesh and I.
That is 5 people that could go at the same time. I could go to Desirae and ask him if we could do UBRS together on Sunday.

Please let us know if you can do it Sunday or Saturday. Hopefully let us know today. I would like to contact Synergy and the Lost Souls tthis evening and get this all finalized. While we are at it, since people are talking about going with Synergy on the following weekend, please indicate whether you will be present then as well.

[Alram]

EDIT:  Have we resolved the Teamspeak vs. Vent issue yet?  Either by getting Vent to work under Linux, or Lost Souls willing and able to use TS? And if we go TS route, do we have a server in place they can log into?  I don't know if we ever touched bases with Bolty regarding use of his server or not.
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Bolty will allow us to use the LL TS server for joint use with another guild. I believe that Vor_Lord is continuing to work on a Linux Vent solution. At my request, Bolty has graciously agreed to look into setting up a Vent server on the LL. Bolty mentioned that Vent has a Linux server software solution. I wonder if Vorlord used that if it would solve his Linux issues.

[bonemage]

Bolty will allow us to use the LL TS server for joint use with another guild. I believe that Vor_Lord is continuing to work on a Linux Vent solution. At my request, Bolty has graciously agreed to look into setting up a Vent server on the LL. Bolty mentioned that Vent has a Linux server software solution. I wonder if Vorlord used that if it would solve his Linux issues.
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Ventrilo has a linux server only, not a linux client. It is the client that is causing issues, as we're running a Win32 app on linux through wine or cedega. The linux server is already running successfully on vor_lord's box.

[Kevin]

Bolty will allow us to use the LL TS server for joint use with another guild. I believe that Vor_Lord is continuing to work on a Linux Vent solution. At my request, Bolty has graciously agreed to look into setting up a Vent server on the LL. Bolty mentioned that Vent has a Linux server software solution. I wonder if Vorlord used that if it would solve his Linux issues.
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As I understand it the server works fine on linux, there just isn't a linux client that lets you talk. You can hear but it doesn't do the recording stuff right.

[Kevin]

2. Back in November in this thread I compiled a list of alternate times that we could schedule instance runs. Assuming that there are no changes we have as the most opportune time--
Sunday--late afternoon/early evening
Urza--57 warrior, Swirly--after 3, GG, Voiceman--finish by 5, Treesh and I.
That is 5 people that could go at the same time. I could go to Desirae and ask him if we could do UBRS together on Sunday.

Please let us know if you can do it Sunday or Saturday. Hopefully let us know today. I would like to contact Synergy and the Lost Souls tthis evening and get this all finalized.  While we are at it, since people are talking about going with Synergy on the following weekend, please indicate whether you will be present then as well.
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Things have changed. Treesh is now off Friday and Saturday, not Thursday and Friday now, but I'm not speaking for her schedule right now, just basically saying I wouldn't trust that current data.

[bonemage]

While we are at it, since people are talking about going with Synergy on the following weekend, please indicate whether you will be present then as well.
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From my conversation with Olan, the 5 she listed were ones that were planning on it already. But there is the possibility for more to be available. With that much in flux, I still think it's much easier to organize one raid only.

If a ZG run is setup for a week from this Friday, I'll be there, and probably be dancing... :w00t:

[vor_lord]

Bolty will allow us to use the LL TS server for joint use with another guild. I believe that Vor_Lord is continuing to work on a Linux Vent solution. At my request, Bolty has graciously agreed to look into setting up a Vent server on the LL. Bolty mentioned that Vent has a Linux server software solution. I wonder if Vorlord used that if it would solve his Linux issues.
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I would really like to see if LS will use Teamspeak. My hopes of getting Vent to work under linux are not that high, as I've already exerted a fair amount of effort in this area. There are not very many cases of success with this that I can find on the internet either. I'm also not a novice either, so the number of people able to help me is not that high.

I'll still see what I can find to solve the problem, but even if I do I'd like for that to be a last resort (i.e. if people in Lost Souls refuse to try TS).

[vor_lord]

1.
According to an officer in the Lost Souls I just spoke to, Olan came on and took a quick count.  Everyone wasn't on. They might have more than 5.

We presently have 8 people commited to Friday night. That would make a party of 13-15 in UBRS. If Yuri and/or Swirly decide they can make it, then 1-2 people will be left out if there is a full party of 15 (8 Lurkers and 7 Lost Souls). Those 2 might then have the option of hooking up with Synergy. While they would be in a minority, they would definitely get the flavor of how Synergy plays.

I don't object to letting us get to see how they play (i.e. just a couple people would be enough for that purpose, they already have a pretty good idea of our play). My concern is that they are scheduling their UBRS raid just for us. I don't know that they would be doing it otherwise. I don't want them to find out the day of that we don't really have the people to send and leave them hanging.

[VoiceMan]

I would really like to see if LS will use Teamspeak.  My hopes of getting Vent to work under linux are not that high, as I've already exerted a fair amount of effort in this area.  There are not very many cases of success with this that I can find on the internet either.  I'm also not a novice either, so the number of people able to help me is not that high.

I'll still see what I can find to solve the problem, but even if I do I'd like for that to be a last resort (i.e. if people in Lost Souls refuse to try TS).
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Being a rather close blood relative to both Vor-Lord and Bonemage....if they're having trouble getting Vent to work under Linux, chances are it won't work period. I know they won't say it, as they're decent people who don't want to brag, but I'll brag on them. :P Both of them are exceptionally talented and knowledgable when it comes to computers. So, I would echo the hope in getting everyone to use TS. The way it stands, everyone can use TS, while not everyone can use Vent. As both are free downloads, both are easy on system resources, and both easy to use, I would say TS is the easiest route to follow, and presents the fewest problems for all.

[Treesh]

Please let us know if you can do it Sunday or Saturday. Hopefully let us know today. I would like to contact Synergy and the Lost Souls tthis evening and get this all finalized.  While we are at it, since people are talking about going with Synergy on the following weekend, please indicate whether you will be present then as well.
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Sunday after 7:30 server time would work for me. Saturday morning/early afternoon (meaning before 4:30/5PM server time) would also work for me.