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Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Brother Laz - 11-03-2003
Diablo 3 Beta Test report #1 - 15.08.2012
The release of the beta of Blizzard's new flagship title is the culmination of a hype never seen before. North Korea admitted that '0% of our nuclear capability' is currently aimed at Seoul 'to minimize the risk of an accidental nuclear launch affecting the Asia 3 servers'. For the same reason, the United States reduced the number of nuclear ICBMs aimed at Cuba, where the USSouthSouthWest server is located, to '0.6234% of the maximum capacity', or a measly 1,447 missiles, and pointed the extra missiles towards Europe. 'If less than 50% of the European people play on an American server, we will launch a pre-emptive strike', Admiral Bush claimed, 'Their kids will come into contact with the great American culture by playing on our great American servers, and we expect an estimated 87.4% of the European people to surrender to our great American army within the first four days of the upcoming war'. He also stated that 'the European rogue states such as France and Belgium' were violating the treaty by 'totally owning us at Diablo 2'.
The announced beta release, four years and three months ago, was preceded by not one but three attempted terrorist attacks on the free people of the free country of the United Free States. A North Korean 'black ops' team captured a 737 with a 'suitcase nuke on board' and threatened to detonate it above Los Angeles if Blizzard would not increase the number of Asian servers to 8. A second terrorist from the independent state of Texas stole a Kenworth 'Chromeliner' and claimed he would drive it into the Statue of Liberty if Blizzard did not add a 'Block All Koreans' button in the chat menu. Finally, a Dutch terrorist threatened to fly his delta wing into Mount Rushmore unless Blizzard would enforce a strong anti-hack policy on the realms.
......
After receiving the box with the six game DVDs in the mail, we beta testers had to wait over two weeks before the Beta 1 server was finally up. I spent this time clicking Refresh Server List every five minutes and staring at the 'We are working hard to get the server online as soon as possible' message for days. Then it finally went up, and immediately back down again when 99,999 other beta testers logged on at the same exact moment. The connection was very unreliable all week long, but I did manage to make some progress.
There are 14 character classes, ordered by region of origin; the seven countries of Sanctuary have two character choices each. Kehjistan, the rainforest area of Diablo 2, offers the Cleric and Paladin, while the peaks of Arreat are home to the Savage and Beastmaster. Richu in the Far East is the new addition to the world of Sanctuary, and offers the Sorcerer and Monk.
After sitting in front of the computer screen for four straight hours unable to make a choice, I clicked at random and got the Sorcerer. After selecting a class, the game asks for a character name. There is a 'Random' button for the totally uninspired individual, which is colored red in the German language version, and there are powerful heuristic bad language filters in effect in the American English version. I named my Sorcerer Zhao Yin, which is Chinese for 'm3 pWnZ0rZ y0o', or so I heard.
A curious option in the character creation screen is the 'Alarm Clock' option, which is only available in the Korean version of the game. When enabled, the alarm clock goes off after 48 hours of playing the character in one session.
The next step in creating a character is customizing his or her look in the Fenotype menu. There are 20 body types, 40 heads, 40 haircuts and 15 voices available per character class. To Blizzard's credit, all of the available body parts fit the general theme of the class, and there are no useless 'deranged clown' or 'mutated sea monster' hairdos like in so many other games. After selecting what your character should look like, you can outfit him or her with clothes, jewelry and other trinkets. This option is not totally wasted once your character acquires some armor; parts of the selected clothing remain visible, such as the animal pelts of the Beastmaster.
This part of the game has been the target of certain neocon groups in the United States claiming that 'the game depicts blacks [clerics and paladins from Kehjistan -BL] as religious leaders... it is the tool of Satan and should be banned from our great Christian country', until a law was passed stating that 'anyone trying to hamper, delay, slow down, impede or otherwise screw with the release of Diablo 4 will be considered a traitor of the great American principles of Freedom and Independence, and will be hanged from Liberty's Torch'.
......
On to the actual game now. I started out as a puny level 1 Sorcerer with a level 3 Firebolt and four innate abilities ready to take on the world. These innate abilities are pretty useless for the Sorc compared to those of other classes. Beastmasters can buy animals or summon them from beast tokens, and mount them. Clerics can Heal themselves and their party members. And Sorcerers can open and close doors from a distance, woo-hoo!
My attitude towards Open/Close changed less than one minute after I entered the haunted forest, when I encountered my first scavenger beasts. Closing the door in their face would delay them long enough to get some distance and shoot them from afar as originally intended, and would coincidentally also cause 1-4 damage to the frontmost scavenger.
Those scavengers are creepy. In the perpetual gloom of the haunted forest, the black animals are very hard to spot. You can see the glow in their eyes, though. But with skeletons running rampant and spells flying in all directions, they manage to stay undetected prettty well. And when damaged, they scuttle back into the darkness to eat a nearby corpse and regenerate back up to full.
I found a neat rare robe with +9 to mana, my first cursed item [miserable dagger of dexterity, -45% damage, +1 dexterity] and my first unique, The Rainbow Cloak. It gave 25% to all resistances, but also increased light radius by 20%, which attracted more monsters towards me. It got sold.
Attack and defense rating are handled differently now. Defense rating is the chance of an incoming attack hitting armor instead of flesh. If the attack/defense check fails, the attack is deflected by the armor and the physical damage component is ignored. If the attack carries knockback or elemental damage, the secondary effect will still hit you. Attack rating affects the chance that a melee attack hits flesh instead of armor, and determines accuracy for ranged weapons, though the chance to hit with a ranged weapon is also affected by distance.
There is also a new stat, 'dodge rating', which determines the chance to avoid an enemy attack altogether, and is largely based upon your dexterity. Interestingly, wearing heavy armor decreases your dodge rating, in order to encourage players to choose one or the other. Dodging attacks is less effective than absorbing them, but for mage characters it is good enough, and it is easier to get a decent dodge rating by investing into dexterity than getting a decent defense rating by investing into strength and praying for a godly full plate.
Level up! When you level, you get five attribute points, one skill point and one ability point. The ability point goes to one of twenty-four passive abilities that improve various aspects of the character. Mine went into Increased Energy, which boosted my energy stat by 11%.
I invested my first skill point into Frozen Armor, which granted a 15% bonus to dodge rating and the ability to freeze attackers by 25% for 1-2 seconds, as well as inflict 1-3 cold damage. One major disadvantage about the skill is the fact that its casting sound seems to alert and 'wake up' all nearby creatures, which resulted in me getting repeatedly mobbed by groups of enemies suddenly emerging from nowhere. The freeze effect is low to begin with, and gradually decreases to zero over its duration, which made it pretty useless. The dodge rating bonus was very helpful, though.
I spotted a level 31 Sorc in a public game, outfitted in a nifty looking golden full plate. It was Shi Zi's Valor, which gave +15% to Sorc spell damage and increased cast rate by 2. Wow.
My play session was rudely cut short by yet another server outage Blizzard claims to have fixed four times already. Way to go, Blizzard. I also found out I had been fired, which did not matter much to me, as I had +204% extra gold from monsters, and 204% - 100% is still +104%.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report #4 - 29.08.2012
My Beastmaster hit level 62 in a random public game, and is now halfway through Nightmare difficulty, near the end of the haunted forest. I thought I was badass when I scored a level 49 spirit wolf mount (155-202 slashing, 40-87 cold damage) from a beast token dropped by a random banshee boss near the Lake of Tears, until I joined a public game and got to see a bunch of level 60-65 characters with level 70+ royal lions and frostsaber panthers doing upwards of 450 damage per hit with an attack speed of 20.
So I paid a visit to my old friend Hathar, traded in my 'useless' spirit wolf for a level 56 dire rhino with 259-402 crushing damage, replaced my old moon wolf pets with three brand new level 53-59 night panthers that do an average of about 300 damage per hit with +10 to their critical hit check, and bought a pair of Beastlord's Dire Claws of Devastation with +2 Beastmaster skills and +14% to my pets' crushing damage. Growl.
Unlike the Druid in Diablo 2, the Beastmaster does have full control of his minions. Skills assigned to the right mouse button are executed by the character, and skills assigned to the left mouse button by one of his pets - use Tab to switch between the available pets, or hit F12 to instantly select the character's mount, if any, and press both mouse buttons at once for a combo attack to impress the newbies.
Critical hits are the bane of the Beastmaster's existence. Unlike in Diablo 2 where monsters had 5% chance to land critical hits and characters had a percentage chance based on your skills and equipment, critical hits are now more related to the actual combat situation. Getting hit from behind greatly increases the chance of taking a critical hit. Getting hit while casting a spell automatically results in one, and interrupts the spell. This is usually not a huge problem for combat characters, but the Beastmaster is big and slow and gets blindsided quite often, taking a lot of critical hits. I took 9 critical hits in a row from a slayer boss in the Dark Cathedral.
With my new furry friends I checked out channel #TheAmazonBasin to find someone to help me get past the Sheolan Gates, the tricky bit between the forest and hell sections.
The other Basiners were leveling their newbie characters in Normal, so I started a NM/Hell game with Ruvanal, who to my horror was playing a Monk, a class not often played by beta testers, probably because it requires too much micro for the 12 year old kids that make up most of the beta tester pool, and also for another reason, one that I learned as soon as we met our first enemy.
His offensive skills are unique in this game. Set a combat skill under the right mouse button, a 'modifier' under the left, and your attacks will combine the effects of both skills. Use the 'Serpent' modifier, which adds life and mana steal, with the 'Storm' attack, a spinning strike not unlike Whirlwind in Diablo 2, and you will do a spin attack that steals life and mana, called 'Serpent Storm' in the skill bar. Every combination of attack and modifier has a different animation, and some of these are very Matrix-like.
The problem with the Monk in the current version is that it is the worst enemy of party play. Rogues and Sorcs can be a threat to other party members, but not to the degree of being rendered completely useless when trying to avoid friendly fire. Most of the Monk's melee attacks and modifiers have an area of effect, which all too often includes the other melee-based party members. To make matters worse, Ruvanal insisted on using the 'Earth' modifier, which made those big waves on the ground and launched me into the air every time I happened to attack the enemy he was already engaged with, or the other way round.
Within two minutes of each other, we found the unique banded mail, Sagarmatha, and a rare thunder hammer with +2 Holy Freeze [Cleric Only] on it, and 41-62 crushing damage when thrown. Holy Freeze is not very effective, but it is almost worth it for the graphics alone, slowing down the movement of flags, tapestries and other such objects, and freezing water.
The transition between the forest levels and the hell levels is a giant wall with a big gate in it, flanked by two statues. Having already been fired at with powerful laser beams by the statues in Normal difficulty, we cleared the immediate area of banshees and goat men first, then stopped to divide the loot and portal to town for potions before engaging them. A surprise awaited us when we returned through the portal: the statue had turned into a giant stone pteranodon of sorts, and proceeded to rain down fireballs upon us the instant we came back. The bastard chased us through three miles of unexplored forest before our shaman was able to down him with a well-aimed chain lightning bolt.
Recharge is a wonderful ability. All characters can learn it, it costs no mana, and it speeds up mana recovery to the point where an empty mana orb becomes a maxed out orb in fifteen seconds. Its drawback is that it requires the caster to stand dead still, leaving him or her prone to all sorts of critical hits, and it has a 20 second timer. It really helps reduce downtime for characters with low mana.
I accidentally killed Ruvanal's Monk in the Haunted Forest by running into him with my character, which happened to be riding a level 56 rhino (259-402 crushing damage). Seems like being in front of any character is dangerous now, not just trigger-happy Sorcs and Monks with a shockwave disorder (just kidding, Ruvanal!).
Crystalion had three more bug reports for Blizzard:
Firstly, it is possible to hit and destroy the haunted paintings in the monastery ruins from extreme range before the ghost has a chance to emerge. No ghost means no item drop, since the item drop occurs at the location of the ghost when the painting dies.
Secondly, there is a bug involving the banshees' corpse spirit attack; they can apparently target fallen Beastmaster minions with it, which will destroy the corpses permanently. Not only can they then no longer be revived, but they still count towards the Beastmaster's minion limit, rendering him unable to replace them and harshly corrupting the character.
Contrary to popular opinion, and confirmed by Ruvanal, the monsters have not become more aggressive towards weakened characters in the latest patch. The real cause of the large number of surprise deaths in 1.08 seems to be that even though the Recharge ability is silent, it has acquired a monster magnet effect similar to that of spells that do have a verbal component. Casting Recharge in 1.08 will instantly wake up all enemies within a large radius, and draw them towards you, and since you are low on mana and not expecting it, you will probably die. Geoff Fraizer confirmed this to be a bug, and it will likely be fixed in 1.09.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report #9 - 21.09.2012
My Sorc finally hit level 141! Only 59 more levels to go. There seems to be a war going on outside, but I have internet access via satellite and a power generator, so it will not affect me too much.
Zhao Yin is currently in Hell/Hell, Seventh Circle. I joined a random pubbie to push to the next waypoint. There were 14 other players in the game, including 9 Shamen. This definitely seems to be the big cheese class in the current beta.
The Shaman's Healing Ward is indeed a wonderful spell and saved the day against Dreadjudge's mob in Hell/Hell and their vicious fireballs. In Normal and Nightmare difficulty those lower advocates are not very dangerous, due to their lack of mana, especially if you have mana draining skills. They tend to cast a lot of buffs on each other before engaging, at which point they have about 30% of their mana left, quickly run out and retreat to use Recharge. And we know what to do when we see a stationary enemy in the process of casting. In Hell difficulty, though, they had at least 1,500 mana and high level Energy Drain, and threw non-stop fireballs at us. Ouch.
Our white-robed negro friend the level 139 Cleric was having serious problems keeping his followers alive at the bridge between the 7th and 8th circle. A goat archer boss named Blightfire the Burning had spawned in the exact center of the bridge, and no one could get near without taking several Bloodstar hits. Even though bosses do not have the insane stacking mods of Diablo 2, the Bloodstar attack alone was enough to drive us back from the bridge time after time. The poor Cleric was spending more time reviving his followers than actually attacking. Our Savage had been punted off the bridge and was trying to get close enough to his corpse, which had spawned almost right next to the goat boss, without dying over and over again. All our magic resist gear was on the floor beneath Blightfire's feet. And then we got to see: Doomcloud the Black, stormdemon boss, lightning enchanted.
We died, and died some more, and died some more trying to get our corpses back. Our Savage switched to thrown axes with acid damage, to take down the boss' defense rating, to make him easier to hit. I had given up on casting Empower on allies which died before they had the chance to cast one spell. In the confusion, someone managed to train the mob to the waypoint and then misplace the town portal right in front of Doomcloud. I used a staff of Bone Spirit to try and drain some of his hit points, but the bone spirits took off more like 1/50th of his hit points instead of 1/3rd, which made me wonder if there is some kind of damage reduction for percentage based attacks in Hell difficulty, in lieu of the 33%/50% cap on Static in Diablo 2. Finally, at long last, he dropped dead and a Thunderbellow, a neat unique helm that went to our Savage. Blightfire died soon afterwards, having already been harmed by a lot of area effect spells.
A level 162 [!] Beastmaster joined and offered us a portal to the grand finale, Diablo in Hell difficulty. Not quite sure of our chances, after getting owned so badly by two random bosses, we nevertheless jumped into the portal as fast as possible.
The party emerged in the final Circle at the bottom of the lava pit. There were a lot of magistrates, advocates, steel knights, vortex lords and soul burners, of which the knights turned out to be immune to everything except fire, and the soul burners were immune to everything except physical. Rather than drawing out the succubi one by one, cornering them and hitting them over the head with my massive 14-39 crushing damage melee attack, I let the melee characters handle them. Then the Savage click-locked a fleeing soul burner and got massacred by the 20 others just behind the screen. The Beastmaster chickened out and TPed away, and I teleported for dear life, leaving a mass of critters parked around the stairs and our only town portal. Hmm.
Back in town, we loaded up the party Monk with all the high dodge equipment we had, enchanted him with Frozen Armor and Tribal Fire, Devotion and Holy Shield, and sent him down. The rest of the party followed, and we managed to clear out the area around the town portal with the Monk tanking the entire mob of monsters. Wow. They dropped a mythical amulet of transcendence, plate mail of tears and 409 gold pieces.
Even here, in Hell/Hell, it's hard to break even money-wise if you aren't careful. Items do not sell for much, and the constant repairs drain a lot of gold. Mage items seem even more expensive to repair than melee items; Nehru wanted 23,400 gold pieces [!] to repair 3 durability on my rare robe. I contemplated waiting until Diablo's uberdrop to repair it, but I did not want it to break in the middle of a battle and be gone forever either.
We flipped the first switch, and out came Darktooth Fleshmaul and mob [told ya to stand back!], and from that very small and unimportant uncleared section of the level emerged a steel knight boss named Blackrend Irondeath. The Shaman lost his nerve at this point and accidentally cast a Flame Wave, waking up anyone and everyone else in the damn room. The Beastmaster Stampeded, and died instantly. Someone decided to flip another switch to make some more room, forgetting that we had already used all the switches but the last one, and set free the Lord of Terror.
'Your mortal souls shall scream with anguish for all eternity!'
Oops.
XR-Shaman04 has left the game.
ThatHolyPpl has left the game.
Brav3Savag3 has left the game.
Just me and the Beastmaster left, and he was having a hard time staying alive, let alone keeping his pets alive, and he was constantly running them into my Ice Storm. I was taking massive damage from Diablo's ice wave attack, but we persisted, and a long and hard battle later Diablo dropped dead. On the ground was a rare bladed staff, rare amulet, magic claws and unique full plate mail! The armor was useless and the staff had everything except enhanced damage, but the amulet was rather godly: +1 to all skills, +21 energy, +29 dexterity, 39% lightning resist, cast rate increased by 3!
Then the server went down!
OH NOOOOOOOOO!
BLIZZARD YOU #@&$£ù%!!!
I am sorry to report there will be a substantial delay before the next beta test reports, but I seem to have somehow broken all six of the Diablo 3 DVDs during that rage attack. The replacements are already in the mail, and they are 'coming as soon as possible'. Stay tuned...
......
;)
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - NiteFox - 11-03-2003
Nineteen Tornadoes.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Rhydderch Hael - 11-03-2003
Brother Laz,Nov 3 2003, 05:07 AM Wrote:...This part of the game has been the target of certain neocon groups in the United States claiming that 'the game depicts blacks [clerics and paladins from Kehjistan -BL] as religious leaders...Such folk would definitely not have liked my fanfiction take on the whole Diablo universe, with consideration given to the Zakarum 'Empire' and its far-flung colonial province known as Westmarch.
Within the Church and the Empire, blacks are the nobility and upper class social majority, and the whites (namely in Westmarch) are the cultural minority that struggle against economic and social presure that come with the job of being the conquered. Hence, the Paladin role in the stories, played by a black man, doesn't exactly "stand out" within the legions of the Zakarum: he is, in fact, part of the noble classes and is a well-to-do and highly educated commander.
The Zakarum Empire also exemplifies the highest order of mechanical engineering and physical warcraft. technologically adept but magically bereft, the Paladins and the like used sophisticated weaponry and plate armors of unequalled craft to wage war and protect themselves from harm (especially from magical attacks, often wielded by their enemies but prohibited from their own use).
Logic being that Kehjistan is a lush, tropical land of the far east, and the world is not as a whole a world of one color. It is all quite reasonable to see the most innovative, advanced light of the world arise from corners one would not expect-- if you took the real world as a model to work off of. Empires and cultures granted that chance theyn would not otherwise have had, to mold and re-mold the world to their understanding of it.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Baajikiil - 11-03-2003
The details are really well done. Well written. Thanks.
If not for the humor parts, it would be a believable description the next installment.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Guest - 11-03-2003
"Within the Church and the Empire, blacks are the nobility and upper class social majority, and the whites (namely in Westmarch) are the cultural minority that struggle against economic and social presure that come with the job of being the conquered. "
Honestly its a game, why would you tie ugly real world problems to it? The notion of classes tied to race isnt offenseive really(I mean its an unfortunate reality that we must confront), but the stupidity of focusing on it baffles me.
I think the Diablo series went out of its way to make race a nonissue.
It acknowledges that race has a real tie to geographic distrobution perhaps, but that is the limit.
You can do better.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Rhydderch Hael - 11-03-2003
Well, I make the mistake of bringing focus to it here, but in the story, it isn't all that much a matter. Just one more thread into the fabric of what I attempt to make as a more plausible, more "real" world of Sanctuary within the fanfic.
The Zakarum also eschew swords and bladed weapons, deeming them to be the implements of 'barbarians' (also making note of fact that the plate armours worn by the Zakarum make such weapons more ineffective, too). The mace and the hammer are the preferred weapons of choice for the shield-bearing Paladins and the pole-hefting Sentinels, two of the three warrior classes within the empire. The third, the Rangers, are the artillerists, the least-stringent, least loyal, and the class most prone to going renegade. They also happen to choose the 'barbaric' weapons (swords) as their sidearms.
As mentioned before, the Paladins of the Zakarum in my version do not have any magical powers, either. Magic in any form is forbidden-- they use technology instead. Steel of the best craft, armour of the best strength, clockworks and torsion springs and mechanically complex repeating mechanisms for their crossbows. More demanding for attention in maintenance and care during use, yes, but needing no mana or ritual requirements as magic user do...
...not very accurate in terms of gameplay, yes. But a bit more "real world".
The armies in which the Amazons fight, for another example, are not exclusive female. In fact, most of the people who fight in the armies of the Three Islands are male. There is a class of battle sorceress within these armies, however, who ply magical and elemental attacks in support of the armies. These sorceresses are trained in the art of energizing physical avatars of wood with their magic, conveying their destructive effects through these wooden projectiles. To make best use of these magical skills, these sorceresses cast their spells through the use of arrows or javelins, and distinguish themselves by the name of Amazon. The Paladins of the Zakarum deride these women with the nickname of "Wood Witches".
It is the witches of the Zann Esau coven, of course, who are masters of elemental magic ex nihilo (as described in the manual) who need no avatar to convey their magics. They can cast their spells seemingly out of thin air. One spell, however, needs an object: you won't see the sorceress in this tale spamming Meteor strikes as fast as she can. Such a spell is a one-shot oppurtunity that can only occur if the girl can sense the close presence of a "sky rock" travelling in the heavens above. If there is none, she can do nothing. If there is one, she only has that one chance to use itâ and quickly done, lest the rock draws too far away to heed her call.
Within the altered state of my fanfic Sanctuary, the Amazon's rivals are that of the Rangers of the Zakarum, the crossbow-wielding "Paladins" who act as the frontier and border guard for the Empire. The Rangers make use of elemental effect with their crossbow bolts, too. But they do so through the use of alchemy. Now, since even the best alchemical formulae canot relpicate cold or lightning, the Rangers cannot use so elements. But they do have incediary, explosive, and poisonous formulae to work with. Hence, the Rangers shoot fire and poison-based attacks, and to keep things disparate between them and the Amzaons, I've written in the ground rule that the Amazons' only magical attacks come in the form of ice and lightning-- no Immolation Arrows or Plague Javelins for my version of the Amazons.
The Necromancers, while can revive almost any creature to their cause as the demostration of their best skill, usually are content to raise and animate the skeletons-- a skill that takes much less effort to summon and control. But in order to raise a skeleton, the necromancer can only use the physical avatars most befitting to the spirits he consorts with-- not any ol' set of bones will do. Only the skeleton of a human, or an intelligent humanoid creature such as a Saber Cat, can be used, since it is only those bones that were once wrapped and clothed in the flesh of a sentient being-- a being with a soul. Those bones, having been bathed in the aura of a sentient soul during the life of their previous owner, retain a spiritual resonance that the Necromancer can later manipulate and exploit. Hence, another ground rule: the Necros in my story can only raise skeletons from human graves, the quality of the warrior summoned directly tied to subtle factors in the skeleton's origins (he'd much prefer exploit the grave of a warrior or king rather than a beggar).
Human souls have one other use. Inspired by the storyline description of a Necro's Corpse Explosion, one must have the understanding that teh anguish of a soul's tormented death is a short, violent burst of spiritual energy. The Three, with the puppetry of the High Council in Travincal, made use of this by taking its small yet wholly corrupted Tranvincal Guard to the task of capturing large portions of Kurast's population and putting them to the knife in the Dark Tower (which, for some odd reason, goes down into the earth in the game). That is the reason for the hecatomb of Kurast. Every bone of every person executed by the corrupted portion of the Church is a soul trapped by the powers of The Three, to be burned and consumed when the time came for The Three to reunite and open the Infernal Gate. That gate doesn't exactly run on a pair of AA NiMH abtteries, you know. The combined energy of every tormented soul from Kurats killed is used to power open the gate and break through the mortal plane into Hell.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Occhidiangela - 11-03-2003
Do you understand the literary requirement of internal consistency? Do you understand The intersection of the primary and secondary worlds with reality? Rhydd does, or seems to.
Rhydd is hardly "raising race as an issue" but his very brief outline fits with well established scenarios used by already published authors. You might want to read the "Thieves World" books, for one, consider the reality of the Moors and their impact on Spain, and in short, consider why Dragonlance is internally inconsistent and not particularly good literature, for all of its popularity with the RPG crowd.
The internal inconsistency in Dragonlance is not so much race based, though the ethnic predilections of the elves get some mention, but on more fundamental structural elements.
For example: steel and iron do not make good coins, since they tend to corrode and there are better uses for steel and iron in a Swords and Sorcery setting. The complete FUBAR Hickman and Weiss pulled, beyond the idiotic paradox of the Kender, was to present an Earthlike world where steel was used for armor and weaponry while at the same time trying to present iron as a rare enough element suitable for coinage. (For all that, I enjoyed the Twins stories and a few others in the Dragonlance world.) Contrast with Robin Hobb, whose stories, whether you like their tone or not, are in general internally consistent. Not too many "deus ex machina" there.
All Rhydd's outline suggests is that he chooses to try to create a realistic bit of fan fic that touches on the reality of the relationship between the conqueror and the conquered: sort of the like the relationship between the Romans and the Gauls, the Russians of the Golden Horde and the Mongols, or the Americans and the Native tribes and nations of aboriginals on this continent.
Why do you have a problem with that?
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - TriggerHappy - 11-03-2003
That was simply beautiful.
Aww nuts. Now I want to play it :( .
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Guest - 11-03-2003
I didnt say "raising race as an issue".
Rhydd didnt do that and I didnt accuse him of it.
I meant exactly what I said.
I think classes and races are a great part of any fantasy setting in fact. As in reality you need those background difference to drive stories and events.
It was the particulars of that case that I didnt care for. I see no reason to make such a close inverse parrel to events in recent history, which are still having a impact to day. Its not wrong per say, just unwise.
Being that most of us are in North America or are fairly well informed Europeans, I would figure that the nature of slavery in America and the long term effects of it are familier to most the readers here.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Rhydderch Hael - 11-03-2003
The inverse parallel is both implied and neccessary for logic.
Or else am I forced to say that the advanced and far-reaching Zakarum, which originated in the distant tropics of Kehjistan, was founded and run by people of a very light skin color more fitting to the colder climes of the northlands?
I am giving grace to the spoken story element given in the game manual by inviting the possibility that this great force doesn't fit one's typical perception of an advanced empire.
It's not a clear-cut story of god versus evil, of seraph versus demon. Class warfare, national conflict, civil war, political and social revolution-- they all factor into the story. Prostitution, slavery, corruption, defiance of authority whilst retaining faith, and an opening tolerance between national, religious, and ethnic lines-- that's there too.
And I should note that the only instance of an organized field army of the Zakarum in my story is one of the Westmarch armies, whose ranks are composed of equal numbers in native warriors from the western province as well as the imperial troops. All the high commanders, of course, are from the heart of the Empire, though the ancillary commander ranks are of mixed race.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Guest - 11-03-2003
This history of the Islam is an example ofhow the leadership of religious groups does not have to have the formal linearity you seem to require.
Like I said there is nothing wrong or unreal about the system you chose, but it drives for some ugly specifics that Blizzard seemed to go out of its way to avaid.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Rhydderch Hael - 11-03-2003
May you perhaps then, look at my words?
The Zakarum in my version are not just bound by Church. It is an actual Empire, with all the social, cultural, and historical trappings found therein.
And the implication that their outermost colony of Westmarch, deep in the Europe-like western lands, would be incorporated into the Empire, its peoples changed and included into it, implies that no one race is exclusive to this fold. You analogize to Islamic faith. Mayhaps you should better consider the Zakarum to be more like the Roman Empire?
You've called my ideas stupid. You've called them ugly. Yet you have not out and out said what is so stupid and ugly about them-- merely danced around with hint, allusion, and analogy. Face the issue: we're talking about a story universe set in a past far removed from our 'tolerant, enlightened' modern perspective, about a world being torn apart by hellish machinations and a quest for anarchy based on sins of hatred, fear, and chaos...
...you were hoping for, maybe, Candyland?
If you do see some ugliness to it, I hope you see it in the portion that I intentionally wished to portray as being ugly. Sanctuary, at my last reckoning, was not a nice world. Definitely not set within the best of times, either.
What troubles you, man? Are you afraid that I would promote racism? Are you fearful that I will glorify inequality and prejudicial hatreds? Maybe you come from these fears because I have not revealed all the aspects or any more of the threads of story I still hold close to my chest, but come know this: the things to be known in the first chapter will change in whole come by the last. Halfway decent stories tend to do that, you know. ;)
And remember: one does not combat the unreason and futility of racism by speaking of nothing but gardening and cooking. One does not illustrate horror and the fears felt in war by speaking little else than of fluffy bunnies and sunlit meadows.
It's not wise to avert your eyes from the object you wish to strike down. Well, you can. But then you're much more likely to miss the mark.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Guest - 11-03-2003
"And remember: one does not combat the unreason and futility of racism by speaking of nothing but gardening and cooking. One does not illustrate horror and the fears felt in war by speaking little else than of fluffy bunnies and sunlit meadows."
I never said your idea would promote racism nor did I infer it. Come on, dont make a strawman.
When people argue like that the should be ashamed.
What I said was pretty clear. You dont have to agree with my principals on the matter, but misdirect the agrguement.
The only problem I had was that you chose to make an enjoyable fantasy setting sound remarkable similar to real life issues and you even used the the same particular races. It wasnt "wrong" but it is needless.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Rhydderch Hael - 11-04-2003
Quote:I never said your idea would promote racism nor did I infer it. Come on, dont make a strawman.Aye, but I say that my idea is to combat racism. By showing it in effect. How? Consider the typical iron-clad heroic knight, and then some of his heroic (but not nearly as heroic as he) sidekicks and consorts. Stereotypical rendering: hero = white; sidekick = not white. It has become so ingrained in popular fiction that the words "Roderec, the brave and noble knight. And Damo, his loyal and trusty sidekick..." automatically paints the hero one invariable color, and the sidekick another. The Lone Ranger and Tonto. Maximus and Juba. Jack O'Neill and Teal'c. The archetype allows it to slip into our consciousness with ease, so subtle we hardly raise a voice to it...
...unless the pattern gets changed. Then we notice it, much like how an artist will draw a subject upside-down, using the new perspective to awaken the senses and force the brain to look beyond the comfortable ruts we all settle into.
But what did you have to say about it? You did say that Blizz never made it an issue, and that I could "do better" to follow suit.
You also said it was an act of stupidity. And an ugly issue that I'm better off having left unsaid.
Quote:When people argue like that the should be ashamed.The only shameful style of argument I have seen so far is where someone applies their own level of sensibility to judge another's perspective in a work of fiction while never clearly describing the reasons for concern. They opt instead to drop innuendos and half-said, contradictory opinions about how the principle is not objectionable, yet they still object to it. And then to call what that writer is pursuing a 'stupid' and 'ugly' prospect, to say he's pursuing a mistaken course-- without actually saying why one feels it is such a mistake.
Quote:What I said was pretty clear.No, the things you have said are not.
You first interjected an opinion that racial issues need not addressed. Then you say those issues were not offensive at all, yet focusing on them is an act of stupidity. Now, why would outlining social order according to race (a practice history has done countless times in the past, where this very story does occur) in order to produce plausibility seem stupid?
Secondly, you re-interate that there's no problem driving a story according to race and social order, yet in the same post wonder why it in neccessary to do so! The closest I come to understanding you there is when you say you do not like the inverse status quo that is implied: a shallow sentiment considering that it fails to address the many deep, insightful issues on how we perceive fantasy worlds and heroes, on racial perception and the shock of seeing racism in effect-- especially from an unexpected quarter. But no, all you have to say on the matter is that you do not care for it, that it is unwise, and that it is familiar to slavery (though I never said that whites were slaves in my version of the Zakarum Empire!!!)
What is more troubling is that you pass judgement on one thread of a greater tapestry, without having seen how the threads are woven together. Even when told as such, you take your one small glimpse at my world and still profess a full and inrrevocable judgement upon it.
Thirdly, you make one nebulous and irrelevent analogy to Islam and how it crosses racial barriers, after I have said twice that the Zakarum in my interpretation was not of religion alone, but rather instead turns on the administrative engine of an Empire with all political, social, and economic forces implied within. Your analogy takes no heed to the particulars of my vision of the Zakarum, so it gives little insight. Then you voiced, once again, one small peep about how this turns up some ugliness that the great Blizzard chose not to pursue. Implying, again, a course of action for me to take without ever giving a concrete reason why I should take that course to abandon this facet of the story.
Quote:You dont have to agree with my principals on the matter, but misdirect the agrguement.There is no misdirection in the argument, for there was no direction in the argument in the first place. You state your opinion on why you do not like it. When I ask why, you again state your opinion that you do not like it. I will ask one more time. Why?
It's not a challenge. It's an entreaty. After all, who is the greater purveyor of ignorance: the fool who does not know the right, or the teacher who does not bother to tell him what is the right?
What do you know that I do not know that troubles you so?
Quote:The only problem I had was that you chose to make an enjoyable fantasy setting sound remarkable similar to real life issues and you even used the the same particular races. It wasnt "wrong" but it is needless.Well, you see, there's this little problem with the D2 universe of Sanctuary: if I tell the story just like how the game plays out, only a gamer will understand or enjoy it. I cannot make passages like "... this sword I give your has fifty percent better ratings of attack than the one you wield now. With every strike that you make, you have a better chance of slipping past the demon's defenses and inflicting damage..." Why? Because it'd suck! It'd exclude the general audience, the one who doesn't know an Obsidian Lord from a Carver, from ever fully understanding the story or the elements within. Re-interpretation is the only way to make the Diablo universe "mainstream". That's my intent. Plausibility is a key factor in that. There are just certain things that occur as presented in-game that would make little sense in any other venue.
I begin to see your problem with my interpretation. Mine's a bit more real. You don't want real. This is a story of how the forces of Hell conspire to tear the mortal world apart in order to strengthen its position in the eternal war against heaven. But you do not want the murkiness of real-world issues, despite the fact that to the denizens of Sanctuary, this is their "real world".
My version might play out like a PG-13 movie. What the game itself plays out like is more akin to a Saturday morning cartoon. Understand that, and perhaps your opinions on matters may become a bit more constructive. Details on the matter, feelings about them, and no side-stepping and light-footed mutterings of "It's stupid"... and leaving it at that.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Guest - 11-04-2003
I could explain some more but you would just create some more stories and convice yourself by the end that you were not just telling a fun story, rather you will be saving the world.
Like I said, your original statment wasnt "wrong", just ugly.
In reading your rebutals, I now think you are a bit delusional.
I think Im done talking about this - I have just repeated the same stance every time -
You are taking something fun and needlessly injecting an ugly link to the specifics of real life, rather than keeping it genneral, as most other people easily could.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - ShadowHM - 11-04-2003
Ghostiger,Nov 4 2003, 12:46 AM Wrote:I think Im done talking about this - I have just repeated the same stance every time -Maybe it is time you accepted that there are other viewpoints on fictional writing? Good fiction can accomplish many things at once.
You are taking something fun and needlessly injecting an ugly link to the specifics of real life, rather than keeping it genneral, as most other people easily could.
The completeness of the backdrop to any form of fiction is important. As far as I can tell, Rhydd has merely outlined in detail what the backdrop will be for the action in his story. The quality of the story, and the fun of reading it, will be in how he manages his plots and characterizations after he gets the backdrop clear and consistant.
Why he does it can be important. But the 'fun' of reading it will be in the readability later. And any points he makes through his story are intended to be the sort that percolate for a bit after one finishes the story.
Think about Gulliver's Travels for bit....
Fun reading? Oh yes ! Agenda on the part of the author - Jonathon Swift? You bet. "my principal Design was to Inform,
and not to amuse thee" The Travels (IV:12)
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Rhydderch Hael - 11-04-2003
I am now convinced that your true and only intention is to insult and troll for a response. Three times here I have entreated for a rational, clear, and overt declarations of your critique. You have responded with refusals to meet that criteria, yet find it still prudent enough to cast insult without furthering the discourse.
It is not so much in that you failed failed to get your point across-- you have here said that you choose not to explain yourself, deciding instead to throw out more insults to a man without explained cause or even a concrete, rational perspective on your part.
To such a man, there is no accord. To such a tactic, there is no resolution. It appears that this tangent is nothing more than the poduct of a troll and his prey, casting words one knows will draw a response, and repeating the same, without variation nor progress to understanding, in order to continue drawing more response.
I know now where you truly stand, I need no no more to cross that bridge.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Guest - 11-04-2003
"Maybe it is time you accepted that there are other viewpoints" - the standard retort when you have no substance. The wonderful ewwy gooey world of web of obfuscation is here.
I "accept" everything. I stated my strong opinion that disagrees with his opinion.
He could have simply said he disagreed, and that I wouldnt agrue with. But instead he tried to make a structured arguement defending what is simply a values judgment, so I was responding.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Rhydderch Hael - 11-04-2003
Ghostiger,Nov 4 2003, 05:31 AM Wrote:I "accept" everything. I stated my strong opinion that disagrees with his opinion.The strength of your opinion, whoever, lies not in the reasons behind it, but rather is measured by how often and how loudly you can speak it.
Quote:He could have simply said he disagreed, and that I wouldnt agrue with. But instead he tried to make a structured arguement defending what is simply a values judgment, so I was responding.Truly, is there anything ignoble about that? 'Tis far nobler than criticizing a person's perspective on a fictional work without ever bothering to clearly point out what irks you about it.
I illustrated once that the greater purveyor of ignorance is the one who does not bother to teach. You responded by saying you much rather not explain yourself. I dashed hope upon hope and entreated to your sense of reason not to criticize by simply saying "It's stupid" and walking away at that. You responded by saying my point of view is delusional... and walking away at that.
You have done everything that rationality and ethical debate demanded that you do not do. And yes, there is a mistaken, stupid fool pursuing an ugly line of thought in this thread. You have convinced one (and doubtless many, many others) that I am not the one guilty of that offense.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Guest - 11-04-2003
I gave the the simple reason several times.
Perhaps you are not only deluded maybe you have comprehension problems too.
Here it is real simple.
1 One aspect of your story has similularity to a real life isssue and even involve the same to races. (This me we have both agreed to.)
2 I feel this simularity is bad.(This part of my stance you undrerstand, but disagree with.)
3 I feel it is bad BECAUSE it takes a fun fantasy world the functions on generalities(ie good vs evil)
and links it to specific problems(No matter how many times I write this you are unable to read it I guess).
Point 3 which you cant seem to read is a values judgment. You dont have to agree about it, but it is a difference that is rather direct.
Perhaps if you focused on what you read instead of how you plan to stylize you next answer your responses would make more sense.