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Character Simulator App - shavenlunatic - 12-03-2003

Just curious, does anyone know of a D2 character simulator (for 1.10)

I want to be able to experiment with characters, i.e. put the points in the stats, give them equipment and see how they look. (yes i know i could calculate this manually but it takes a while to build a level 80 character, then calculate each single factor of the character). Would be uber handy for me to be able to see what kinds of damage is being dealt etc. Then being able to tweak it to suit.

I realise there are character editors out there but i'd preffer not to use one if possible as although it is only a single player cheat, id preffer not to go down that route (plus it will spoil the excitement of building the character if i've already used it to test it.. no fun there)

So, i guess what im looking for could be called a D2 Character emulator..

Much obliged if anyone can point me in the right direction of this, thanks.

Character Simulator App - ShadowHM - 12-03-2003

shavenlunatic,Dec 3 2003, 07:26 AM Wrote:I realise there are character editors out there but i'd preffer not to use one if possible as although it is only a single player cheat, id preffer not to go down that route
I cringe whenever I see something described as 'only a single player' one.

It implies, somehow, that cheating in Single Player is not really cheating - that the real game is on the Realms. :blink: I have spent most of my D2 playing time in Single Player/TCP games. Cheating is anathema to me in any mode, as I hope it is for all those who lurk here.

I am sure that was not what you meant to imply, shavenlunatic. I just had to vent a bit when I saw that line tossed out again. :)

Character Simulator App - shavenlunatic - 12-03-2003

ShadowHM,Dec 3 2003, 01:00 PM Wrote:I am sure that was not what you meant to imply, shavenlunatic.  I just had to vent a bit when I saw that line tossed out again.   :)
You are correct, its not what i meant to imply. But I do think there are certain levels of cheating.

SP cheating, although I dont use SP cheats (as whats the point in paying up to £30 for a game, then making it last 5 minutes by cheating?), does not affect anyone else. Therefore, I dont use them, but i couldnt give a sh*t if someone else is using them, being that its their money they are wasting, not mine

whereas

MP cheats really get my goat, regardless of which game im playing. Theres nothign more annoying than putting hours of playtime into something trying to acheive it, them some little spotty twat comes along with his hax and walks allover you.

Cheating is cheating, agreed, but if people want to cheat themselves, fine with me, but they can die a painful death for cheating me.




Anyways..heheh, offtopic (i end up ranting about cheating at times also..sorry :lol: )

still, see first post .. thanks :D

Character Simulator App - Fragbait - 12-03-2003

Hail Shadow,

The thing about cheating in singleplayer is:
The only one you're betraying is - yourself. You robb yourself from the fun to play the game, because you can see, find and experience all things that are meant to be some sort of 'reward' for the player, like unique items or seeing the end-movie, immediately.
If one wants to spoil his own fun in singleplayer, there's nothing to say against it.

As soon as other players are involved, however, it's not singleplayer anymore; be it via lan, direct cable, wlan or the world wide web.
Still, if several lan players agree in using cheats, it is no cheating really. It's just their (easier, dull) way of enjoying the game (temporarily).
Spoiling other people's fun is another story.

PS: nice to meet again.

Greetings, Fragbait

Character Simulator App - Guest - 12-03-2003

I fail to see the difference between a character editor and simulator, sorry.

And as for displaying how a character looks in-game, I haven't heard of any DII editor (ever) that had that feature. You'll just have to see to not move when you're in game.

If such a "simulator" would ever come to be, it'd have to combine all current character editors (of which a majority don't even work for 1.10) and what, 50 different calculators.

I would recommend the lvl 99's from dii.net, but I'm unable to find them, download them here if you dare (I didn't zip them, and it'd be hard to add a trojan in 1kb :P).

There's zipped characters with tons of uber l33t items in there too, which I never used (mainly because it was so tedious, you'll have to convert them with ATMA to 1.10F then switch items between characters with it too), but I did use the characters to try out different builds and skills.

And for checking skills/synergies quickly, there's chippydip's.

Character Simulator App - --Pete - 12-03-2003

Hi,

I have spent most of my D2 playing time in Single Player/TCP games.

But those are two completely different situations. To cheat, one either needs to cheat *someone* other than the cheater or to break the rules of the game. In single player there is no "other". And since a game *is* its rules, and the rules are what those that are playing agree to, then changing the rules when all agree is simply changing the game. What a person does when playing alone is that person's and only that person's business. There can be no question of cheating on that level. Whether a person is modifying the rules to test game concepts or because the person is a wanker looking to beat an easier game than the one he bought for a cheap thrill does not enter the question. Of course if a person "beats" one game (say hacked Diablo) and claims to have beaten another game (real Diablo), then that person is a liar, but still not a cheater.

Once others are involved, then cheating does become an issue. Whether that cheating takes place while playing with the others or whether it took place in generating the character and items prior to the multi-player game does not matter. What does matter, again, is the agreement between players. If all the players involved have agreed to play by the same rules, whether those rules are those the maker of the game intended or not, then again there is no cheating involved. Those so playing are simply playing a different game.

I just had to vent a bit when I saw that line tossed out again.

And I had to vent when I saw this knee jerk reaction to this topic again :)

--Pete

Character Simulator App - ShadowHM - 12-03-2003

Pete,Dec 3 2003, 10:12 AM Wrote:And I had to vent when I saw this knee jerk reaction to this topic again :)

--Pete
Hi Pete

As you know, very few people take the care to think through and parse their thoughts as clearly as you just did. :P

Many, if not most, do think of Single Player and TCP/IP games as the same thing - a place/type of game that is somehow intrinsically different from Realm games. And that is the attitude I was railing against, although I should know better than to preach to the choir. :lol:

As usual, your care and attention to detail in responding resulted in a better explanation. :)

Character Simulator App - shavenlunatic - 12-03-2003

adamantine,Dec 3 2003, 02:50 PM Wrote:I fail to see the difference between a character editor and simulator, sorry.
Difference being, is that its basically a calculator for a characters stats, damage etc. It wouldnt actually create/edit a real D2 character, merely give you the statistics of the character once certain skills, stats and equipment was added.

The vision I had was one of this:

A windows application that has the stats listed, skills listed, and relevant ammount of skillpoints to spend as you set the level. Then in a seperate window the characters damage, defence, AR, MF etc would be displayed so you can get an idea of how well the character would fare.


At no point would this be used to actually generate a character to be used in-game, merely so i could view the stats.

e.g. if you hadn't used a Druid before and wanted to check see what items and skills woul dbe most effective, tweak the skills and stats until you think you have a build to your liking. Then go onto bnet and start questing to build up your character to your specifications.

Character Simulator App - adeyke - 12-03-2003

Quote:It wouldnt actually create/edit a real D2 character, merely give you the statistics of the character once certain skills, stats and equipment was added.

I'm not sure I see the importance of this. D2 is its own best simulation. You can creat a character just to look at the stats while wearing a certain set of equipment and using a certain layout of skills, and then delete the character when you're done. The fact that you could have played the character is irrelevant.

When testing various game mechanics, I often mod the game to let me control more variables and to speed up the process. For example, when I want to test the effects of some property on an item, I don't go out and look for an item that has that property. I just make a cube recipe that gives me something with that property. Then, in the simulation that is D2, I test things out and see exactly how things work.

When I'm done, I wipe my save game directory and restore my backup "legit" characters.

I don't think this is at all harmful, as long as I make sure to keep the distinction between playing and testing. With testing characters, I can give myself anything I want and modify things in any way I want. Everything's worthless there, though. OTOH, on my real characters, the items and the experience still have their normal worth.

Character Simulator App - shavenlunatic - 12-03-2003

adeyke,Dec 3 2003, 05:20 PM Wrote:I'm not sure I see the importance of this.  D2 is its own best simulation.  You can creat a character just to look at the stats while wearing a certain set of equipment and using a certain layout of skills, and then delete the character when you're done.  The fact that you could have played the character is irrelevant.
The importance (for me anyway) is that i want to be able to shuffle points around, e.g. i whack a load of points in one skill, then I decide that it was a waste, I can just remove those skills, shuffle them around a bit and see the results.

I dont have the patience to create a character, take it up to lvl 70, see if i like it, decide i could have spent about 3 skill points more sensibly and have to create the character from scratch. And as i said, I would prefer not to use any mods or cheats, I just want a quick calculator to check my theories.


I'm confused as to why nobody seems to be able to see the benefits of this... :huh:

Character Simulator App - DarkCrown - 12-03-2003

If D2 were designed so that the skill points could be reassigned at any time it would be a very different (and much easier) game. This is basically the game that you're saying you'd like to try. As Pete pointed out that's your business in single player.

But on the Realms it seems to me that you should learn what works and what doesn't the hard way: spend time gaming. Build a char and realize what you did wrong. Then build a better version. Rinse and repeat to taste.

If you're not agonizing over where to put your points the first time you try a new build then it seems to me you're not playing the same game that I am.

-DarkCrown

Character Simulator App - Obi2Kenobi - 12-03-2003

I think he meant that you could use a character editor to make a char, open D2 and see whatever you wanted, and then delete the character.

Character Simulator App - shavenlunatic - 12-03-2003

DarkCrown,Dec 3 2003, 06:05 PM Wrote:If D2 were designed so that the skill points could be reassigned at any time it would be a very different (and much easier) game. This is basically the game that you're saying you'd like to try. As Pete pointed out that's your business in single player.

But on the Realms it seems to me that you should learn what works and what doesn't the hard way: spend time gaming. Build a char and realize what you did wrong.  Then build a better version. Rinse and repeat to taste.

If you're not agonizing over where to put your points the first time you try a new build then it seems to me you're not playing the same game that I am.

-DarkCrown
No,

please understand (the last two threads) .. I DON'T want to create a character or edit a character to play in D2, i merely want a statistics simulator. At no point would I expect nor want the character to be used in-game unless i went onto realm and played it through myself until I reached the level I was aiming for.


Please don't make me repeat myself again.

Character Simulator App - Leah_heartsword - 12-05-2003

I understand what you mean. What Shaven is trying to say is that Diablo2 won't even be open. He just wants a window with calculators for stats and skill. I have been looking around for one. I have not found one for 1.10 yet though. I might make one, but it will take like year (not very good at programing only 14).

I think this is good idea. I will try to make it so you can save the stat results and you won't have to reput the data. I will most likely take alot of 1.09 programs and convert the stats. I will try and get my brother help me program this. I will PM you when it is done, though there might already be a better one out.

Character Simulator App - teske - 12-05-2003

Well
Chippdip's Skill Planer
is probably the closest thing.

But such numbers won't tell you how effective your charakter will be.

teske

Character Simulator App - Taem - 12-05-2003

Just do what I do...

Gather all the formulae, make a character sheet in Excel using theses formulae, and feed it the input you have. The output will give you the desired results your after. I believe D-Dave posted a beta-version of his guide on this site which has all the formula (cleaned up formula and very well done I might add) you need to do this (well, almost all - I had to search everywhere to find a few not in there ;) ).

If you don't have Excel or are not inclined enough to do this... then I guess your stuck. Instead of relying on others for your needs (i.e. a "Simulator"), figure it out for yourself :D . Its a lot more fun that way... trust me!

Character Simulator App - shavenlunatic - 12-05-2003

Leah_heartsword,Dec 5 2003, 01:34 AM Wrote:I understand what you mean. What Shaven is trying to say is that Diablo2 won't even be open. He just wants a window with calculators for stats and skill. I have been looking around for one. I have not found one for 1.10 yet though. I might make one, but it will take like year (not very good at programing only 14).

I think this is good idea. I will try to make it so you can save the stat results and you won't have to reput the data. I will most likely take alot of 1.09 programs and convert the stats. I will try and get my brother help me program this. I will PM you when it is done, though there might already be a better one out.
Finally :D heheh. Thanks matey. Good luck with the program dude.

Yes, that ChipDips simulator is quite good for calculating magic damage, and it is along the lines of what I was looking for except in more depth (i.e. taking into account physical stats and items)


I don't feel that I know enough about the workings of Diablo to write my own calculation program, I could physically encode it if someone would work with me so I didnt screw up the calculations. Plus the reason I wanted a quick program was so I could go "Will this knack?" and be able to find out instantly, if i spend a few weeks encoding the program i'll be so p*ssed off at it by the time I'm done I'll probably burn my D2 CD :D

Character Simulator App - Guest - 12-05-2003

Quote:And as i said, I would prefer not to use any mods or cheats, I just want a quick calculator to check my theories.

If you put a character save file (.d2s) as read only (which just has spare skill and stat points), you can exit the game if you put some skillpoints wrong as the changes aren't saved. Oh wait, that's probably a cheat. <_<

Also, how do you check your theories by only just 1/10 of the real statistics (you know, ones that are non-character but still affects them)?

Quote:The importance (for me anyway) is that i want to be able to shuffle points around

Chippydip allows you to do that.

Character Simulator App - ildon - 12-05-2003

Quote:It implies, somehow, that cheating in Single Player is not really cheating - that the real game is on the Realms.
The difference is that when you're cheating in single player, you're only cheating yourself, where on the realms you're cheating other people as well. While I find it disappointing that people cheat themselves, I really can't object to it because it doesn't affect me. :P

Character Simulator App - Occhidiangela - 12-06-2003

1. Nice to see you chose to stick around after your "welcoming" thread. :)

2. What you envision strikes me as similar to Chippydip's calculator, massively enhanced. ATMA has some of the functionality that you seek. IIRC, it had at one point a character editor function.

3. The tool you are seeking is not trivial to build, however. If you were inclined to build one yourself, (and become famous for doing so!) you'd probably do well to seek out the Phrozen Keep Mod crowd for advice on digging what you wanted to out of the various mpq and text files, so that you would replicate the game engine's calculations for various combinations of skills, stats, and items together.

I think that if you use an editor to achieve that end, you can safely not cheat by simply not playing those characters you create for "test" and "what would that look like" purposes.

You make the call.