tech. query: mlvl of SU minions?

tech. query: mlvl of SU minions? - Printable Version

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tech. query: mlvl of SU minions? - Crystalion - 01-07-2004

My impression is that Area Level affects regular bosses/champs and monsters but not SuperUniques (and "bosses" which includes act bosses and some monster types, oddly). For bosses affected by area level, apparently their minions are their level (i.e. area_level +3 for the boss *and* his pack of minions).

Is this correct?

But what of Pindle in normal? The area_level is apparently 32 (Zath info). If Pindle weren't SU I'd expect his minions to be mlvl 35. But as he is SU I'm inclined to believe he is clvl 45 (d2data) and wonder if his minions are also 45?

This makes a difference (aside from being theoretically interesting to me) when one of his minions drops a plain flail (as ivl <40 vs. >40 is diff between a HotO 4 sockets from Larzuk vs. a "useless" 5 sockets).

I'm terribly tempted, whatever the answer, to verify it (blowing a socket quest reward, as I've said many times, isn't a big deal).

I'm also presuming that Larzuk doesn't apply the norm/nm caps of 3/4 on socketing an item based on the difficulty the item dropped in (or is socketed in). Is that also correct?

Feel free to point me to any great socketing FAQ thread (though I've read some of those--iirc some of the questions I ask here aren't necessarily authoritatively/clearly answered in them).

tech. query: mlvl of SU minions? - adeyke - 01-07-2004

Superuniques are affected by the level scaling. They get level + 3. However, the scaling is only in nightmare/hell.

So, Pindle in normal has level 45 (42 is normal level for Reanimated Horde, +3 for SU). In nightmare/hell, he's 66/86 (63/83 is nightmare/hell level for that area, +3 for SU).

Quote:I'm also presuming that Larzuk doesn't apply the norm/nm caps of 3/4 on socketing an item based on the difficulty the item dropped in (or is socketed in). Is that also correct?

Correct. It's only items that spawn with sockets that get the 3/4 limits for normal/nightmare. Adding sockets afterwards doesn't have that cap.

tech. query: mlvl of SU minions? - Crystalion - 01-07-2004

adeyke,Jan 7 2004, 04:02 AM Wrote:Superuniques are affected by the level scaling.  They get level + 3.  However, the scaling is only in nightmare/hell.

So, Pindle in normal has level 45 (42 is normal level for Reanimated Horde, +3 for SU).

So this sounds like SUs and monsters marked as "bosses" in the mpqs (as opposed to what "boss" needs in common parlance) use the "old" system, and all others are based on area_level? Or must an additional flag for the area or monster also be set for that effect to occur?

In any event, I'm still left wondering what mlvl Pindle's (normal diff) minions are? are they 45, like Pindle himself?

Although I think ATMA is nifty, by time I was tempted to use it for SP v1.10 was released, and I've played exclusively on the ladder since then, apart from an occasional test... so I don't have an easy way of seeing the ilvl of a drop in SP testing--perhaps an ATMA user could quickly check on a item from one of Pindle's minions and report?

Personally I find it annoying that the game "hides" information about items. The hidden chill duration on the Eye of Etlich, for example, has always annoyed the hell out of me (hehe, is "hell" an allowable LL word, when being used in "swear word" mode?!)

tech. query: mlvl of SU minions? - adeyke - 01-07-2004

If one of the following conditions is true:
- It's normal difficulty.
- The base monster has the boss flag set
- The base monster has the noratio flag set
... it uses the old-style level (i.e. the level in monstats.txt). Then it adds 2 for champions and 3 for random bosses, superuniques or minions.

If none of the conditions was true, it uses the level of the area in levels.txt and adds the same champion/boss/etc. bonuses where applicable.

So superuniques aren't treated any differently from random bosses, though if the base monster of the superunique has the boss flag set (e.g. Griswold), they will get the old-style level.

Pindle's minions in normal are also mlvl 45.

tech. query: mlvl of SU minions? - Crystalion - 01-07-2004

adeyke,Jan 7 2004, 05:02 AM Wrote:If one of the following conditions is true:

(snip...)

Thanks much.

I've cut 'n pasted this clear and succinct answer into my crib notes.

edit: of course, events have now provided related questions...

So I'm doing various Pindle/norm, Pindle/nm, Stony Field/Mausoleum nm runs (slaughter fests) looking for white flails. The first I see is ethereal (no go, as can't repair charges of HotO).

The next is from nm maus, from an Undefiled Grave, and is a "Damaged Flail".

So, a couple questions (since the last answer was almost beautiful in its clarity)...

Would it be roughly correct that any "container" pop, like this, is ~ area_level for ilvl?

I'm sure ethereal and various "low quality" items don't spawn with sockets (apart from "forced" eth uniques with sockets, if such exist). Does LQ affect socketing in any other way? (e.g. a cap on # sockets or something?)

I assume I can't horcube normalize this item before socketing, as ilvl 1 results and gives on 3 max sockets? Looks like I can normalize after though (the cubemain recipe doesn't say "nos" e.g.). Ah, but it rerolls the item and zaps the sockets, doesn't it? Grrr. Well, I suppose there's no harm in a "Damaged" HotO, LOL (as long as you don't hit anything with it, given the reduced durability).

That reminds me that v1.10 release still has set bonus oddities vis a vis death/set breaking that I should test. Sigh.

Recently on trade forum it was observed that none of us can remember seeing a LQ phase blade. Is there some ilvl/qlvl deal going on here where really good base items never show up as LQ?

tech. query: mlvl of SU minions? - adeyke - 01-07-2004

Quote:Would it be roughly correct that any "container" pop, like this, is ~ area_level for ilvl?

It's always exactly equal.

Quote:I'm sure ethereal and various "low quality" items don't spawn with sockets (apart from "forced" eth uniques with sockets, if such exist). Does LQ affect socketing in any other way? (e.g. a cap on # sockets or something?)

Ethereal items can spawn with sockets normally. I don't think etherealness ever affects sockets at all.

I don't know about low quality items.

Quote:I assume I can't horcube normalize this item before socketing, as ilvl 1 results and gives on 3 max sockets?

Correct.

Quote:Looks like I can normalize after though (the cubemain recipe doesn't say "nos" e.g.). Ah, but it rerolls the item and zaps the sockets, doesn't it?

Correct.

Quote:Recently on trade forum it was observed that none of us can remember seeing a LQ phase blade. Is there some ilvl/qlvl deal going on here where really good base items never show up as LQ?

I hadn't heard anything about that before. My guess (and it is just a gues) would be that such low quality items just aren't noticed, so no one remembers finding them.

tech. query: mlvl of SU minions? - Jarulf - 01-07-2004

Forget it, I got it backwards :(