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Need advice for poor man's Blade Fury Assassin - Todd - 02-23-2004
Hi all,
The recent Blade Fury post by diablo1ks has caught my interest, and after reading through that and some other BF guides around the net, I'm looking for some advice. Since diablo1ks's post was tending towards more technical skill discussion, I thought it best to start a fresh thread.
But first, I guess it's proper to officially say hello, since I just registered. I used to post here (don't remember under which nick, though) before the LL "closed," and haven't posted to a D2 forum since, though I've kept up on news pretty closely and played occasionally. 1.10 is really sucking me back in, however, as well as a few friends who are just now getting into the game. I've played every class, most multiple times, since Classic was first released. But I mostly play purist single-player - so I'm not terribly Realms-savvy. Anyway, it's nice to be back... on to Blade Fury.
Since my 1.09 chars and their hoards of items are long gone, I'm looking to create a Blade Fury assassin on the cheap. I don't mind a few MF runs and trading here and there, and may even build a Pit runner or other dedicated finder for the purpose, but I really don't want to return to the emptiness of endless 1.09 Meph runs and trade hassles. So, no godly-item-required suggestions please. I have no desire to play high-player Hell games, though I'd like to be able to play 1 or 2 player games efficiently, as well as contribute meaningfully to a party in big games. PvP is of no interest to me.
So, to start with, do these sound like achievable goals for a Blade Fury assassin? If not, tell me so and skip the rest.
Moving on... there seems to be a lot of variation in strategy for BF-centered assassins in the guides I've seen. Primarily, it looks like the following fundamental choices:
- Claw/Shield - traditional damage-dealer through weapon damage and mastery
Pros: basic claws are fairly easy to shop or gamble; can use Claw Mastery for AR/Damage boost; good, though traditional, looks
Cons: Lack of special mods (CB, etc.) on most claws; scarcity of good mid-to-high end claws (?); CM AR boost still not fantastic
<>
- Other 1H weapon/Shield - often emphasizes special mods like CB/OW over raw damage
Pros: lots of unusual choices, including stuff that is often discarded or undervalued; decent, easy runewords in Malice and Black; possibly cool-looking; good high-end choices
Cons: Will require precise equipment and lots of trading, even if the gear itself is not so fancy; AR is even more of a problem
<>
- 2H Weapon
Pros: Slightly better damage (?); ???
Cons: No shield means less blocking and more reliance on fade for resists
<>
- Claw/Claw
Pros: Mods from off-hand claw can help buff skills/stats; Weapon Block
Cons: Again, some loss of resists<>
[st]I guess that, at the moment, I'm leaning toward the "Other 1H Weapon" choice. Seems like a decent CB percentage, say 60%+, can be had without tremendously rare items, and I'm not trying to be the king of big games. Also, I kind of like the unpredictability of the gear. But AR's going to be a PITA, especially since I can't afford high end stuff like a Jah or a Demon Limb. Sound reasonable?
Like gear strategy, skills also seem to have a lot of variation. About the only constants are 20 in Shadow Master and Death Sentry. Other popular candidates for pumping appear to be Fade, Venom, and Claw Mastery. Any I'm missing? Since a non-claw build is going to have AR issues, I'm thinking about investing a bit more in Dex and pumping Fade for the damage reduction and big resists to make up for the relative lack of Vit. (I know the Dex alone won't cut it, but it might help provide a decent base for +%AR items.) Putting the rest of the points after that into Venom would give me the prereq's, maybe a couple of points in Cloak, and 20's in SM, DS, and Fade by early-mid hell, leaving Venom for the higher levels.
So that's it, I guess. Thanks for reading and poking at the build, and sorry it stretched on so long. Again, it's good to be back and excited about this game yet again.
Need advice for poor man's Blade Fury Assassin - bigeyedbug - 02-24-2004
Well, I'm playing a BF Assassin and I've enjoyed it a lot. She's now L84 in Act IV Hell. I'm playing HC, untwinked, and 2claw. I'd have some doubts about her ability to contribute meaningfully in high player-count game, but if you're capable of twinking some I don't think there'd be a problem. I think this is especially true for the "Other 1-handed weapon/Shield" option that you're leaning towards. (One quibble: "2H Weapon" is far, far more problematic in terms of resists than "Claw/Claw" because of the ability of Weapon Block to deflect elemental attacks. End of quibble.)
Skills- You sound like you've done you're studying, so I'll just point out some other possibilities. You really don't have to have maxed Fade, SM, or Venom. They can all be prebuffed to functional levels with 2 Shadow claws on switch. Fade especially I think is a waste to max despite the 1%DR/lvl. If you're not worried about Claw Mastery, you'll potentially have a lot of points to work with outside of the quasi-standard build. You easily could get a decent Lightning Sentry. You could go hybrid MA--especially kicker.
Equipment- You're absolutely right about AR. Some words you've probably heard: Demon Limb, partial Angelic Set, ITD, -def/eth runes, Fool's prefix. Some other good mods for BF besides Crushing Blow include Knockback, Slows Target, CtC on Strike, Open Wounds/PMH, Freeze, and Mana Leech. I'm sure you've come across the Crescent Moon, Fleshripper, Stormlash, blah blah blah recommendations. My own blah^3 plug is Malice for low-to-mid levels. It's a lot better than its ED% indicates, and my Assassin used a Malice claw through Act I Hell. And best of all, you actually will find the materials for it.
Best of luck. I'd enjoy hearing how you progress.
Need advice for poor man's Blade Fury Assassin - Yogi_Baar - 02-24-2004
Unlike bigeyedbug my BF assassin went claw/shield, and with lousy equipment (HC, solo, no-twink, details below) she's doing just fine in Act II NM at level 43.
Her über-1337 equipment is:
PTopaz hat (2 so far, 1 socket left)
Malice claws (aye, the normal claws - contemplating Strength eth quhab but will probably stay malicious)
cca 15% res all shield (trying to find shael for Rhyme, saving diamonds and RalOrtTal for no reason other than being dumb)
Angelic mail and amulet (looking for a ring as well)
A decent rare ring (3% LL, +1 mana on kill, +84 mana, ...)
Nice rare plate boots (MF, some res,...)
MF gloves with lightning res
Skills she uses:
Burst of Speed 1, only used where there are no elemental attackers so no sense in upgrading it via skill points
Fade 10, more than enough
Shadow Master 14, maxing it currently
Claw Mastery 12, will max it after SM
Venom 1, will max it after CM (smart or not, it's Miss_VenomBlade)
Blade Fury 1, her sole attack mode, keeping it at 1
Cloak of Shadows 1, suffices for now
Other points went into prereqs.
If THAT DS-less abomination is doing well in NM, you can see you will have no problems either, as long as you're careful and don't get swarmed.
Need advice for poor man's Blade Fury Assassin - Ruvanal - 02-24-2004
Quote:2H Weapon
Pros: Slightly better damage (?); ???
Cons: No shield means less blocking and more reliance on fade for resists
Additional con: The various blade skills will reduce the damage from weapon sources if using a 2-handed weapon. The scaling is an additional 1/2 on top of the scaling from the skill itself (3/4 in the case of Blade Fury). This scaling will effect all the physical, fire, cold, lightning, poison (damage rate, not length) and magic damage that the character would be doing. So if you were using a 2-handed weapon with Blade Fury, the damge added from your weapon use would be in effect 3/8 of what it would be if you just used a normal attack.
Need advice for poor man's Blade Fury Assassin - Todd - 02-24-2004
@bigeyedbug: From your quibble, I'm gathering that Weapon Block can block non-physical attacks? Cool, yet another thing I didn't know.
@Ruvenal: So *all* damage is modified by 3/8 with a 2H weapon, not just the weapon's physical damage? That sucks pretty badly - doesn't really make sense, either. Not that that's stopped Bliz before. Definitely (another) big deterrent to 2H BF, though.
But now you all really have me thinking about skills again. I don't think that Kicking is for me - I'm a little burned out on melee at the moment (got a single-player Fanaticism Zealot at level 75 and another paladin I play with my friends online). But I played a couple of trappers back in 1.09, and they were fun fun fun, if a little underpowered at the time. So Lightning Sentry is very tempting, especially with the Death Sentry synergy working for me. Assuming that I prioritize LS and DS ahead of Venom and SM for the synergy, would the LS be powerful enough to be helpful? Especially since my gear probably won't have the kind of skill adders a dedicated trapper would have?
Also, if I branch into LS, I start getting concerned about the related issues of Mercs, Vitality, and crowd control. With big points in Fade, the damage reduction makes me feel safe enough to put a few more points in Dex for the AR, and use a Might merc for the damage. With low Fade, I think I'd need the Freeze merc to slow things down to manageable speeds, and then my damage is going to take a hit unless I can get crazy CB gear.
Aaah... so many choices. Fortunately, I don't have to actually make any of them until later in this character's career, so I've gone ahead and gotten started. You can find Star-Fall on East, if you want a game. Thanks for the help.
Need advice for poor man's Blade Fury Assassin - adeyke - 02-24-2004
Quote:So *all* damage is modified by 3/8 with a 2H weapon, not just the weapon's physical damage?
Yes. All damage. Since one-hand weapons are modified by 3/4 and two-hand weapons are modified by 3/8 (though it says it's 3/4 on the LCS), a two-hand weapon setup would have to have twice as much damage of all types than a one-hand weapon setup for their BF damage to be equal.
Need advice for poor man's Blade Fury Assassin - twolf - 02-25-2004
For low level gear, take a look at the complete Cleglaw's set. It offers nice boni for a Blade Fury 'sin:
- 50% Deadly Strike
- 30% Bonus to Attack Rating
- Slows Target by 25%
- Knockback
- 35% Crushing Blow
- 6% Mana Leech
For even more Attack Rating Bonus, there are two cheap possibilities:
1. Angelic Halo & Angelic Wings
- + (12 per Character Level) to Attack Rating
- Replenish Life +6
- 95 to Life
- 20% Damage Taken Goes to Mana
2. Hsarus' Iron Stay & Hsarus' Iron Heel:
- + (10 per Character Level) to Attack Rating
- Cold Resist 20%
- 20 to Life
- 20% Faster Run/Walk
- Fire Resist 25%
Of course, a Blessed Aim merc (Act II Offensive) also does wonders for your Attack Rating.
Regards, Tobias
Need advice for poor man's Blade Fury Assassin - Baajikiil - 02-25-2004
Quote: For low level gear, take a look at the complete Cleglaw's set. It offers nice boni for a Blade Fury 'sin:
Heck, my shadow focused build using BF with venom used gegclaws into act2 hell, maybe a little beyond. It serves a BFer well, especially well if you use venom (because much of your damage is venom, you don't have to worry about the low weapon damage).
Need advice for poor man's Blade Fury Assassin - arrunique - 02-25-2004
If you aren't going claw you really need the AR from angelic ring + amulet or armor. Nothing else even comes close.
For this build I would almost say tank dex and get used to wearing 2 angelic rings and armor or amulet. Another good if expensive choice is Atmas Scarab which gives a 20% AR bonus and has the groovy chance to cast Amp. I'm not pos but I'm pretty sure that each individual blade of the fury has the chance to cast amp so you can rely on it going off. My math might be a bit off but that 5% comes out to roughly a 50% chance to cast over the course of a second assuming ever blade hits.
You don't really need + skills since you won't rely on the damage from skills. + skills is actually a detriment to both the blade fury and cloak of shadows skills. I would say cloak is the best defensive skill in the game for a 1 point investment. Dim vision is better only after about 15 skill points. Psionic blast is a worthy 1 point investment to break up crowds and take the heat off of your might merc. Or you have the points to invest 20 points in psionic blast and rely on it as yet another pvm crowd controller.
Speaking of mercs a cold mage will serve you well through nightmare even though he clashes with your use of death sentry. My BF assassin kept his cold merc until act 4 hell when I just stopped doing enough damage.
This build is super fun and is defensive enough to be hardcore survivable I highly recommend it.
Need advice for poor man's Blade Fury Assassin - Todd - 03-11-2004
Time for an update:
Star-Fall hit level 78 yesterday, having spent the last couple days and 8 levels or so running the pits and the Countess. She should easily roll though the end of Act 1 when I pick her up again tomorrow.
After much deliberation, I decided to forget pumping Fade and went the Lightning Sentry route instead. Maxed that and DS first, then Shadow Master, and she's now up to 11 or 12 in Venom. I think that Lightning Sentry was a solid choice for me, though certainly not the one and only best one. 20 LS/20 DS pretty much smokes anything all the way through NM, which eased the pressure on gear until I got to Hell and found some tradeable loot. In Hell, the LS is still substantial, though I expect that by Act IV it will be reserved as a backup for PI's that I can't catch in a Death Sentry blast. Still, the LS is useful all around - at least as useful, IMO, as more Fade would be.
Stats feel a bit spread out, but playable - natural 156 in Str for SS, ~130 Dex for the AR and block, and the rest in Vit. At the moment, that gets me close to 800 life without any investment in life charms. Dex is high, but I'm trying to keep enough AR through that and charms to not be forced to rely on the Angelic Set or a BA merc. The relative lack of Vitality doesn't seem to be a problem to me - as noted by others, this is a pretty defensive build. Methodical play keeps you out of harm's way effectively. I think the last time I died was somewhere in Act 2 NM, despite some speedy runs in Hell.
The gear has been a big part of the fun in this build. I decided to go with the "Other 1H Weapon + Shield" option, as I had expected, so CB/DS/OW and other proc'ing effects are the biggest considerations. But there are so many choices that the build is easy to tune for different tasks and locations. If I strap on the full-on battle gear for questing, I end up with the following...
Weapon: Ethereal BStar - socketed with a PSkull, the 200% AR bonus eliminates the AR problem, though the elemental damage is surprisingly unnoticeable
Helm: Guillaume's - soon to socket with a PTopaz, 35% crushing blow makes this unbeatable
Armor: upped Rattlecage - soon to be socketed with a rare 35% Fire, 8% ResAll jewel
Shield: Stormshield - socketed with a PDiamond because I'm too poor for Um, the DR helps offset my low life
Gloves: Soul Drainers - absolutely killer gloves for the build, the Weaken goes off constantly and really helps keep everyone alive
Boots: Rares w/Resists and MF - OK, but I'm still looking for Gore Riders
Belt: Rare w/Resists and Life - I don't see the need for a String yet
Ammy: Atma's Scarab - nice, though I don't find the Amp triggers enough to really valuable in 1-2 player games, easily replaceable
Rings: Ravenfrost, Rare AR/Resists
What's fun for number crunchers like me is that almost all of that gear can be swapped out in a pretty modular fashion to fit the situation. I can put on Tal's Armor, a Shako, and MF stuff, and get around 400% MF for pit runs if I rely on the merc's Bonehew to give me a couple of DS corpse from Lightning Immunes. If I can get an ethereal Devil Star for Black (I've got the runes) and a Demon Limb, that should ramp up my physical attack nicely for short Pit/Meph runs that I can complete before the Enchant dies. And somewhere between all-MF and all-offense (which is overkill at the moment), I should be able to find a good middle ground that let's me wander around mid-level areas and still keep a decent MF.
Anyway, as others have mentioned, this is a wicked fun character to play, especially when you can get the CB high enough to watch the monsters' hit points evaporate. It's also surprisingly economical. While the gear is mostly pretty specific and requires some light MF'ing and trading to acquire, the two best items - Stormshield and Atma's - really aren't as important as I expected. Rhyme works very nicely for a shield, and any good ammy (especially with big +life to make up for a lack of SS's DR) could take Atma's place in small games. If you have some patience, everything is pretty easily acquired.
Thanks again for the advice - hope to see you on USEast.
Need advice for poor man's Blade Fury Assassin - ryan4nayr - 03-27-2004
Todd,Feb 24 2004, 04:55 PM Wrote:Also, if I branch into LS, I start getting concerned about the related issues of Mercs, Vitality, and crowd control.I doubt you'd have many problems with the crowds. MBlast+CoS are too good to forget to hotkey. Unless I'm playing extremely recklessly AND aggressively, neither my barb merc nor my SMaster need to fear for their lives.
High slvl LS is sooo good. Great range, great dmg, I almost wish it dealt LBoD dmg :lol: I think the traps & BFury tactics complement each great, all are stand-off + high rate-of-fire attacks, the former dealing ltng/fire dmg (they should fix that, btw) & the latter dealing physical.
Great choice with keeping Fade slvl low, if anything only your Shadows would've taken advantage of high Fade.