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Site issue with loading pages - T-hawk - 03-31-2004

I'm having a problem with pages not loading, both in the LL forums and the RB area. I'm using the Opera browser, and I'm sure that's the problem, but maybe a solution can be found anyway.

Any clickable link that does a redirection, such as a "go to last post" or "go to first new post" link, doesn't work. Opera just stalls out. Here's an example:

http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/index.p...iew=getlastpost

The server presumably does a lookup in the database to find thread 3214, and issues a new URL to that specific post. The problem is that the server is using an HTTP Refresh: header to provide the new URL, in this form:

Refresh: 0;url=http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=3214&st=0&#entry41869

This is nonstandard. Refresh is meant to be used to reload a specific page at intervals, not to redirect to a new URL. Netscape implemented this to "help" broken webpages, and IE copied it for bugwards compatibility, but it's not standard and Opera doesn't do it.

The standard and reliable way is to use a Location: header instead, which is how the forums at Civfanatics and DiabloII.net do it. Would there be any chance of getting the LL server to behave that way so that standards-compliant browsers can work here? B)

Site issue with loading pages - Bolty - 04-01-2004

T-hawk,

I've switched it over to Location style redirection. Let me know if it helps. Probably this change will break something else, though. :(

-Bolty

Site issue with loading pages - [wcip]Angel - 04-01-2004

Testing.

Edit:
"By George, I think he's got it!"

Bolty, you've now fixed a problem I've had with the Lounge since I started posting. After every reply the website would not bring me back to the thread, I just received a white screen and had to manually bring myself back to the forum.

Not anymore! Whatever you did, you fixed it for me as well! Weee!

*buys Bolty a frosty one*

Site issue with loading pages - T-hawk - 04-01-2004

Bolty, you're awesome! Works just peachy for me. [Image: goodwork.gif] Can't think of anything else it would break, though of course I don't know the internals of the server. [Image: biggrin.gif] Yup, you deserve a frosty one. [Image: beerchug.gif]



[wcip]Angel - Yes, I had that same problem, and the cause was the same.


Edit: Let me also add a thanks for your support of Realms Beyond as well. I think I'll go look for the donation page now.

Site issue with loading pages - T-hawk - 04-01-2004

Actually, it isn't quite fixed. The RB section still does a Refresh redirect rather than Location. Here's an example:

http://www.lurkerlounge.com/realmsbeyond/f...iew=getlastpost

still gives this header:

Refresh: 0;url=http://www.lurkerlounge.com/realmsbeyond/forums/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=6&t=21&st=0&#entry200

Site issue with loading pages - LochnarITB - 04-01-2004

T-hawk,Apr 1 2004, 06:38 PM Wrote:Refresh: 0;url=http://www.lurkerlounge.com/realmsbeyond/forums/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=6&t=21&st=0&#entry200
As an engineer at heart, I love to explore into and understand what makes things work. I am the type that, especially as a kid, took things apart and, sometimes successfully, put things back together (fixing what wasn't broke I guess). Anyway, I'd like to get a better handle on how network communications, and the immense puzzle called the internet, work.

So, my question - How do you watch what comes down the pipe to see what the lounge server is sending down the line to you? I'd like to be able to see what actually comes across for a browser to interpret to give the results we see displayed. You obviously understand what is happening so it would be much appreciated if you could give me a head start on what I would like to know. I know I could google it but I would probably flounder quite a bit before getting to the basics. (Hehe - I just googled "network communications basics" and got "Results 1 - 10 of about 508,000" :blink: )

A second question of you, or anyone who cares to comment, do you know of and what is your opinion of Network+ and Server+ certification? Are they valuable for the person and to future employers?

Site issue with loading pages - Bolty - 04-01-2004

T-hawk,Apr 1 2004, 02:38 PM Wrote:Actually, it isn't quite fixed.  The RB section still does a Refresh redirect rather than Location.
The Realms Beyond forum is a completely separate entity; although I installed it for the RBD gang, I have no administrative privilege on it. Griselda runs that show - I'll let her know how to implement the fix.

-Bolty

Site issue with loading pages - Griselda - 04-01-2004

Thanks for the PM, Bolty. I wish all fixes were as easy as that one!

-Griselda

Site issue with loading pages - Bolty - 04-02-2004

Griselda,Apr 1 2004, 07:19 PM Wrote:Thanks for the PM, Bolty.  I wish all fixes were as easy as that one!
Shh, silly! They think I'm fantastic for fixing it, and now you've ruined that ego boost!

-Bolty

Site issue with loading pages - T-hawk - 04-02-2004

LochnarITB wrote:

Quote:How do you watch what comes down the pipe to see what the lounge server is sending down the line to you?

OK. In a nutshell, when you tell your browser to retrieve a certain URL, there are a number of HTTP protocol headers that the server sends before the data. Examples would be the type of data that this file is (HTML, JPEG image, MP3 audio, etc), the size of the file, an alternate location for the file (the Location header that I mentioned), how often it should automatically reload the page, whether and for how long it should cache the page, and so on. In general, headers tell the browser what to *do* with the data once it arrives. A surprisingly large majority of all web-server problems are caused by incorrect HTTP headers, since the vast majority of server operators know next to nothing about them or even that they exist.

As for how to see them, you need some kind of add-in program, as browsers hide that sort of technical data from the user. I know of at least four ways to see HTTP headers, though:

This Utility which patches into IE on Windows.

A network packet sniffer such as this one.

A software proxy that can log traffic that passes through it.

The Lynx text browser, which accepts a command-line parameter -HEAD to show just the HTTP headers sent by a server.

Mozilla/Firefox probably has a plugin/extension to do it too, but I don't keep up with developments on that.

Quote:A second question of you, or anyone who cares to comment, do you know of and what is your opinion of Network+ and Server+ certification?  Are they valuable for the person and to future employers?

I'm no expert, but from what I've seen, their purpose is pretty much as an ticket if you're trying to get entry into the networking field or to change careers. If you've got experience in the field, any employer is going to look at that before any certification. But if your previous professional expertise is in, say, real estate or truck driving, you need something to show that you have some competency in a new field.

Hope that helps.

Site issue with loading pages - Griselda - 04-02-2004

Nah, they can still think you're fantastic for figuring out *how* to fix it. :P

-Griselda

Site issue with loading pages - --Pete - 04-02-2004

Hi,

Nah, they can still think you're fantastic for figuring out *how* to fix it.

"Chalk mark: $1.00
Knowing where to put it: $4999.00"

:)

--Pete

Site issue with loading pages - TaMeOlta - 04-02-2004

Quote:QUOTE (Griselda @ Apr 1 2004, 07:19 PM)
Thanks for the PM, Bolty. I wish all fixes were as easy as that one! 

Shh, silly! They think I'm fantastic for fixing it, and now you've ruined that ego boost!

-Bolty

:D I like when they talk like we can't "hear" them :D

EDIT : Ooops , I broke my quote .,...... :o

Site issue with loading pages - LochnarITB - 04-02-2004

T-hawk,Apr 2 2004, 05:16 AM Wrote:Hope that helps.
It sure does. Thanks!

Gawd I'm a geek! I set up Ethereal and started watching some packets. I initally had a problem with everything timing out. It turns out, found in the faqs, that the wireless lan doesn't like being promiscuous. :lol: There really is a lot flying around behind the scenes to get us our fix of the LurkerLounge. As to the certifications, that is pretty much what I figured. I do have some experience setting up and running a small corporate LAN/WAN as the jack of all trades in a small IT department. However, my skills are severly outdated and I was considering the possibility of certification in order to get back out in the work force.

Site issue with loading pages - T-hawk - 04-06-2004

Got another suggestion. Is it possible to have the forum give real ALT tags for the button images (quote, reply, goto-first-new-post, etc)? Currently, it just does ALT="" for every such image.

I often browse with images off (I'm a total speed freak), but I have to load all images on a page to get those buttons to appear when I want to reply somewhere.

Thanks again :)

Site issue with loading pages - Bolty - 04-07-2004

T-hawk,Apr 6 2004, 01:36 PM Wrote:Got another suggestion.  Is it possible to have the forum give real ALT tags for the button images (quote, reply, goto-first-new-post, etc)?  Currently, it just does ALT="" for every such image.
I'll look into this tomorrow night. Should be a matter of skin editing.

-Bolty

Site issue with loading pages - Bolty - 04-12-2004

Okay, how's it now?

-Bolty

Site issue with loading pages - T-hawk - 04-12-2004

Looks great - I compared a couple pages with and without images, and it looks like you got all the buttons, or at least all the ones that I know to look for. :)

Of course, I hope this could be passed along to Griselda for the RB section as well [Image: wink.gif]

Site issue with loading pages - Bolty - 04-12-2004

T-hawk,Apr 12 2004, 05:39 PM Wrote:Of course, I hope this could be passed along to Griselda for the RB section as well
Yeah, you got it. Gris, it's under Skins and Templates -> Manage Macros. Click Edit on your Macro set, and edit each one to change its ALT tag from '' to 'something'.

-Bolty