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Well isn't this cute - Printable Version

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Well isn't this cute - Sir_Die_alot - 04-08-2004

Chippydip's site which is linked to from the Lurker Lounge community page now links to the skill planner at http://www.d2items.com/. I really hope it was just laziness on his part and he isn't associated with that site. Reguardless anyone with me in saying it shouldn't be linked to from the Lounge now? Or am I alone in completely despising those item dup... I mean "selling" sites?

edit: found this at the bottom of that page.

Quote:copyright 2002-2004+, http://www.d2items.com/ * Contact Us

Gratuitous copyright info:
Diablo® II © 2000 Blizzard Entertainment. All rights reserved. Diablo and Blizzard Entertainment are trademarks or registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment in the U.S. and/or other countries.
The Diablo 2 v1.10 Skill Planner is ©2003 Chippydip.

Making things for such a site. I am so dissapointed. <_<

Well isn't this cute - Baajikiil - 04-08-2004

You may be interested in reading this thread at the AB. The owner of d2items.com argues his case inside.

Thread at AB

Personally I agree that the link should be removed. Many loungers may still find a use for the planner, as it is quite helpful, but I don't think there should be a link to an item selling site that "doesn't dupe anymore".

There is an alternative at diablo2.ingame.de.

EDIT: I guess I should comment that I certainly appreciate Chippydip for writing the thing, and I understand that he might as well make something for doing such a project. I just think that a site which has admitted to selling iths/dupes in the past should not be linked here considering the LL's policies. Also I know that it's not up to us whether the link gets removed or not. I'm just expressing my opinion.

Well isn't this cute - arrunique - 04-08-2004

Quote:Chippydip's site which is linked to from the Lurker Lounge community page now links to the skill planner at http://www.d2items.com/. I really hope it was just laziness on his part and he isn't associated with that site.
There's no such thing as a free lunch. If you want a service, then somebody has to shoulder the cost of providing that service. If you wouldn't mind including the link to your free skills calculator I'll be glad to check it out.

You are free to stop using the d2items skills calculator, write your own and host it, or quit playing the game entirely in protest. You are also free to bitch about it here. And I'm free to bitch about your bitching! Isn't freedom great?

Quote:Or am I alone in completely despising those item dup... I mean "selling" sites?
If the fact that some people exchange their time for money twists your nuts then there I hear Kazinsky's shack is for rent.

Well isn't this cute - ShadowHM - 04-08-2004

arrunique,Apr 8 2004, 07:27 AM Wrote:If the fact that some people exchange their time for money twists your nuts then there I hear Kazinsky's shack is for rent.
Who is Kazinsky? Is there a reference here that went whooshing over my head? I do lead a sheltered life, I know. ;)

And, since I have no nuts to twist.....

My personal preference is to play the game. I know that there are those who would rather handle the tactical problems of the game with overpowering equipment and short-cut that procedure by paying hard cash for said equipment.

I just didn't think they were the sorts that frequented the Lurker Lounge. :P

It isn't my call to make on whether that site should be linked to via the Lurker Lounge. Nor is it Sir_Die_alot's. I took his post and his question as more of a report to the rest of us about an altered link along with a query about how we feel.

Well isn't this cute - Baajikiil - 04-08-2004

Quote:If you wouldn't mind including the link to your free skills calculator I'll be glad to check it out.

Minor nit: I just posted a link to another free one :)

Quote:There's no such thing as a free lunch.

As I recall Chippydip wrote it for free, allowed others to use it for free, and it is still free. It's just that someone(d2items) offered him $ for the rights to host it at their site. I can certainly understand him taking $ that is offered for something that he did simply for the community.

Well isn't this cute - Sir_Die_alot - 04-08-2004

Arrunique the Lurker Lounge is a "legit" diablo 2 site. Meaning no dupes no hacks ect. ect. ect. As if his FAQ questions 12 and 13 didn't say enough
Quote:. 12: How do I know that these items are legit and won't be deleted by The Scan?

Items with the '  ' are known to be legit items. Items without the '  ' are known to be dupes (not legit), and prices reflect this. We make this distinction so you can take the appropriate steps to protect those items that require it. For the most part, only some Jewels and Runes are not legit. Luckily, when a Jewel or Rune is put into a socket it becomes legit. If you're worried about losing your duped Rune or Jewel, use it in something. Carrying a duped Rune or Jewel around with you from game to game is a good way to get it deleted.
 
Q. 13: How can I protect my duped items from The Scan?

#1. Don't carry duped items around with you from game to game. Keep them on a character you don't often use until you're ready to use it.
#2. Trade-Cancel immediately before you leave every game. Opening a tradescreen with another player and closing it will remove deletion flags from your items. Deletion flags may be reapplied to your item if you do not leave immediately after doing this.
#3. If your duped item is a Rune or Jewel, simply put it in a socket. It will be forever permanent whether it's duped or not.
#4. Read the Duped Items Guide.
you can scroll through his inventory and see many obviously duped items.

But wait! That's not all he has a guide to avoid dupe deletion. Excuse me while I vomit.

Well isn't this cute - gekko - 04-08-2004

I can't believe this guy is a philosophy major, and yet he tried to defend himself at the basin. My personal favourite (from the AB thread linked to above) was this bit:
"What I meant to convey there was that I may sell hacked items but that doesn't make me a dishonest person. I agree with you in that Hex charms did ruin the game. I put off selling those items for a long time before I finally gave in. To remain competitive, I had to sell them. People don't want to shop around for their order. They might want to buy 9 legit items and 1 hex charm and if you aren't selling the hex charm, they're not going to buy the 9 from you and go find a hex charm somewhere else--they're going somewhere else for their whole order. Asking a d2 store not to sell a certain high demand item is like asking a convenience store not to sell alcohol. Sure, alcohol is bad for you and it ruins lives but as long as it's legal and it's demanded, you have to sell it if you want to stay in business. If you like the convenience of convenience stores, you'd better just learn to live with it. If Hex charms ruined your life, you've got problems."

Ahem. So let's get this straight. He puts off selling hex charms, because he agrees they ruin the game. Then he decides to sell them because it's the only way to stay competitive. And this is his PROOF that he is NOT A DISHONEST PERSON. "Putting off" selling hex charms until it's financially inconvenient does not equal morals. That would be economics. He admits to doing something that goes against his views of right and wrong in order to make a profit. And uses that as proof that he's not dishonest. How well does he do in psycology classes?

His comparison to selling alcohol is ridiculous, too. A more apt example would be this: I'm a convenience store owner, and I'll only sell crack to teenage kids if my competitors do. After all, crack will ruin the kids' lives, but I need to stay competitive. Therefore, if selling crack makes me money, I'm a moral person.

It's actually a shame he kept posting. His initial post or two weren't too bad. Frankly, in some ways I sympathize with the guy for the bashing he gets. But frankly, he deserves it. He (and every other person that runs a site like this or sells stuff on ebay) perpetuates the supply AND the demand for hacked, duped and stolen items. Claiming he's not responsable for the demand (while technically true) is akin to my convenience store clerk saying "since some kids will want crack whether I sell it or not, my selling crack to kids has no affect on the situation." In short, it's a dodge.

*shrugs* I know I won't exactly meet opposition for my views on this here. But I'm annoyed when someone like him, clearly intelligent enough to write legible posts, talks about how he's a psycology major and therefore his views are correct. This guy is lying through his teeth, claiming he acts following a moral code when he obviously breaks that code when it's financially profitable to do so.

As a final note, I was most impressed by how the basin handled that one. Ban the guy for breaking the spirit of the basin, without degenerating into a flame war.

gekko

Well isn't this cute - FoxBat - 04-09-2004

Not just rights. Exclusive rights. Not that it's clear that they are his to sell anyway, when he's ripping images left and right from the Arreat Summit.

I think I was probably the only person to be upset about the Phrozenkeep when it went to hosting on the item sale site XFernet and it's equally questionable items. At least that one went out of buisiness. <_<

Well isn't this cute - channel1 - 04-12-2004

ShadowHM,Apr 8 2004, 08:10 AM Wrote:Who is Kazinsky?&nbsp; Is there a reference here that went whooshing over my head?
Kazinsky I assume is a mis-spelling of Kaczynski, as in Ted Kaczynski also known as the Unabomber.

He was responsible for sending bombs to some folks in the USofA, and as far as I know he is serving life sentences for murder. He had been living in a cabin in Montana.

Ya, I found the reference a bit obscure too. I suppose if you aren't in the US you wouldn't get it.

-rcv-

Well isn't this cute - Bolty - 04-13-2004

FoxBat,Apr 9 2004, 04:00 PM Wrote:I think I was probably the only person to be upset about the Phrozenkeep when it went to hosting on the item sale site XFernet and it's equally questionable items.&nbsp; At least that one went out of buisiness.&nbsp; <_<
The temptation...

Those of you who frequent the Lounge's chat channel know that I get one or two offers per week to have the Lounge purchased by another website. I give them all the same response: the offer stands at $1 million ($1,000,000) US dollars.

Strangely, none of them have taken me up on the offer.

Oh well.

-Bolty

P.S. I hate d2items.com with a passion as well. It's not just the cheating and duping they promote, it's the constant spamming of Battle.Net that also makes them reprehensible. Thing is, it's the readers caught in the middle - take down the link and someone out there won't find out about Chippy's great resource. Since I don't run the Diablo II section anymore, I get to shirk the responsibility of deciding the link's fate. :)

Well isn't this cute - bernard shakey - 04-19-2004

I dont dont remember if i found the link to that page on this site or not , but I do remember getting a chuckle out of using the calculater on that site.

If you think about it he's paying to futher my enjoyment of a game that he's made money ruining for me.

theres at least a tiny bit of poetic justice there. I'll take what little i can get!

Well isn't this cute - gekko - 04-19-2004

I'll take you up on that offer, Bolty.

Cheque's in the mail. With luck, it should clear in 20-30 years (sooner if I can convince Lurker's to pay a 'user fee' for MY most excellent website!

gekko

Well isn't this cute - Chief Fruity - 04-19-2004

channel1,Apr 12 2004, 10:31 PM Wrote:Kazinsky I assume is a mis-spelling of Kaczynski, as in Ted Kaczynski also known as the Unabomber.

He was responsible for sending bombs to some folks in the USofA, and as far as I know he is serving life sentences for murder.&nbsp; He had been living in a cabin in Montana.

Ya, I found the reference a bit obscure too.&nbsp; I suppose if you aren't in the US you wouldn't get it.

-rcv-
Actually, he is fairly famous. At least, famous enough to be known well enough in Cananda. My friend did a project on him for history class last semester. We had to choose from a list of people that "changed" the world since the second world war, and he was one on the list.

Well isn't this cute - Daemonlaud - 04-25-2004

Odd thing is that the d2items version appears to lack some of the information that the original chippy's had (such as IG returns vs player values, actual dmg for magi, etc). Also, it gives you no way to include direct +skills (like, +5 poison dagger) without manually disregarding synergies.

Minor niggles.

Apart from this, there is no planner of comparable usefulness in existence. Despite my utterly no tolerence view of hacks, dupes and dodgey items, as long as the site hosting it a ) keeps the thing working properly and up to date and b ) continues not selling cheat items...

I can't say as I'd approve denying its value, and everyone deserves a chance to reform, right?

Well isn't this cute - adeyke - 04-25-2004

Quote:Apart from this, there is no planner of comparable usefulness in existence.

Have you looked at Diablo2.de's skill calculator? I can't say whether it's better or worse than the other one (I suspect it's largely a matter of opinion), but I'd definitely say it is comparable.

Quote:Despite my utterly no tolerence view of hacks, dupes and dodgey items, as long as the site hosting it a ) keeps the thing working properly and up to date and b ) continues not selling cheat items...

"Continues not selling cheat items?" They are currently actively selling highly illegit items. For example, they're selling rare boots (which can't have legitly spawned since 1.07 or maybe earlier) and they have multiple copies in stock.

IOW, they are currently selling filthy dupes.

They also redefine "legit" as "something that won't be deleted" and "dupe" as "will get deleted." IOW, they're saying that if a dupe doesn't get caught, it's perfectly legit. For example, they say that "when Runes and Jewels are placed into a socket, they are no longer vulnerable to the dupe deletion scan—they become legit in every way" (something the recent rune deletions have disproven, BTW).

Also, their FAQ gives tips for how to avoid dupes getting deleted.

So do be aware that the site is far from being legit. They're not even trying.

Unless maybe by "cheat items" you don't include duped classic-era items or the obvious hacks the site was selling in 1.09?

Quote:I can't say as I'd approve denying its value, and everyone deserves a chance to reform, right?

If d2items ever wanted to reform, I might agree. However, they're actively dealing in dirty items. I see no evidence at all of a desire to reform.

EDIT:

I guess all of this has been said already in this thread. Oops.

Well isn't this cute - Taem - 04-25-2004

Quote:For example, they say that "when Runes and Jewels are placed into a socket, they are no longer vulnerable to the dupe deletion scan—they become legit in every way" (something the recent rune deletions have disproven, BTW).

Actually... since you said it first, current dupers in 1.1 will dupe runes, then upgrade them. Once they have been upgraded, they get a brand spankin new ID code and are officially non-dupes now from a SERVER point of view, however from a moral point of view, thats screwed!

Well isn't this cute - Caaroid - 04-25-2004

HAH!

The initial request was that the link should be removed. That is totally outrageous and unacceptable, if you think about it.

This site retained it's purity over the years. We have posters posting in decent style, people don't write guides advocating hacked items or bugs (I only recall one, and it got it's due in forum bashing), and why is that? Although I deeply respect Bolty, he only SET the tone. He alone would have never been able to uphold this system. It is us, (fellow lurkers -- yuk!), who keep this system going.

For all I care, there could be a whole SECTION in the links site listing item selling sites, and I would not shop there. Even though that means that I can never have an enigma wind druid, and that I could easily afford the item myself. (Yes, I did check the prices, finance major, daah.) I CHOOSE not to do so, since then when that BER drops - and I fail to pick it up - I would not feel BAD, I would not be wound up -- the whole game would loose it's flavor.

The point is, you can hardly avoid seeing the ads of item selling sites these days -- those bots really ruin gameplay (it is virtually impossible to make 8 player games anymore, for one). If someone wants to buy items, they will. This site is FAMOUS for being populated by people who do not resort to such things, so where is the harm? Are you really so easily tempted to buy things that you need an admin to sit on your hands not to do it? Getting worked up now, I'd suggest that you all reconfigure your firewalls to block any requests going in that direction. Meeh!

Chippydip's skill planner is still the best out there (easiest to use, familiar interface, and I've grown to like it in the previous versions), and I share Bolty's view that you'd hurt the legit players by removing the link. And yes, I am glad he could make money from coding something for fun; some of us have trouble making money from something we code for a living.

Caaroid