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+--- Thread: Why do I hear..... (/thread-7628.html)
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Why do I hear..... - Saxywoo - 11-13-2004
I've been trying to get onto the servers for about 2 hours now, with no success, at least for the Closed Beta servers, which should have a comparatively light load in comparison to the Open Beta servers.
If this is any indication of how things are going to be when the game goes final, I can forsee something like the AOL Whiner circulating around, just with a WoW theme.
"Why World of Warcraft so busy? It took me forever to log on. What's that? Are you talking to me? How do I get to Stonetalon Peak? Can you help me kill Van Cleef? I'm a level 20 and a level 50 just challenged me to a duel, is that bad? Who....."
Let's do the math here.... 500,000 players on 40+ servers.... Let's say there are 50, just to give them the benefit of the doubt....
That means for the Open Beta, there's going to be 10,000 people on each server, but we all know that's not going to be the case. There's not going to be 10k people on ONE PvP or RP server.
I don't know of a single network that can sustain 500,000 people hitting it, nor a server that can handle 10,000 people without running out of memory after the first 1500 people sign on. Then, what's the cost of one of these servers, let alone 40+ for a beta? How big of a gamble is Blizzard making on the success of this game?
I think that there's a lot more at stake here for Blizzard than we think....
Why do I hear..... - Quark - 11-13-2004
Saxywoo,Nov 13 2004, 01:08 AM Wrote:Let's do the math here.... 500,000 players on 40+ servers.... Let's say there are 50, just to give them the benefit of the doubt....40 'servers' is probably a much bigger number of hardware machines. For instance, I know I heard a blizzard rep say that Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms are on different pieces of hardware. The item-style lag that has been prevalent indicates that if items aren't done on a seperate server altogether, it's at least a multiprocessor server (Anyone doing stuff with items is dying with lag, while they see everything else going on like normal).
Quote:I don't know of a single network that can sustain 500,000 people hitting it, nor a server that can handle 10,000 people without running out of memory after the first 1500 people sign on. Then, what's the cost of one of these servers, let alone 40+ for a beta? How big of a gamble is Blizzard making on the success of this game?
I think that there's a lot more at stake here for Blizzard than we think....
There's probably more systems involved in this than the simple '40 servers'. The fact that there's login issues for all realms right now itself leads to the thought that a seperate login server is shared between realms.
On the other hand, Blizzard has also mentioned that they are purposely not running at full capacity, so that they can stress the servers and try to break them beforehand. I heard that they have a fix for the item-lag issue in hand, so it's obvious why problems now is a good thing.
Why do I hear..... - MongoJerry - 11-13-2004
Quark,Nov 12 2004, 10:39 PM Wrote:40 'servers' is probably a much bigger number of hardware machines.
I definitely know that Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms are on seperate servers. In addition, instances seem to be on seperate servers of their own, since it was common in the beta to be playing just fine in instances while the outside world was crashing.
Also, somehow different subsections of the world may be on different machines -- at least the cities might be. At least, that was the reason given for why it was difficult to link the auction houses in different cities (back when all cities had auction houses). The claim was that since auction houses weren't in the original spec, they didn't have the architecture drawn up to support it. In other words, they would have to have a seperate auction house server that the city servers linked to. I don't quite understand why this was such a major hurdle, but anyway, it does show that different pieces of the game world are on different servers.
A couple of recent Blizzard posts related to lag and crashing servers:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...mp=1#post599926
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...mp=1#post610161
Why do I hear..... - Guest - 11-14-2004
You know its called 'beta"? No MMORP has ever ran a beta this big. The only way they can make the game work well in live is to test everying during beta.
Why do I hear..... - LavCat - 11-14-2004
Saxywoo,Nov 13 2004, 01:08 AM Wrote:I've been trying to get onto the servers for about 2 hours now, with no success, at least for the Closed Beta servers, which should have a comparatively light load in comparison to the Open Beta servers.[right][snapback]60104[/snapback][/right]
I finally got onto Beta at 2:35 this morning. No lag and everything was fine. My only complaint is that none of my friends/children/guildmates were on, which makes it difficult to do instances. /whine off
Why do I hear..... - Bolty - 11-14-2004
Ghostiger,Nov 14 2004, 08:55 AM Wrote:You know its called 'beta"? No MMORP has ever ran a beta this big. The only way they can make the game work well in live is to test everying during beta.Just one problem - this has been heard before on other MMORPG releases. "The lag and problems we're seeing is because we're testing stuff out on beta servers. It'll be fine on release, really!"
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Release day comes. Servers die under the load.
With little over 1 WEEK to go, there needs to be some demonstration that the servers can handle it. Otherwise, you're plunking down $50 for the game (or more), + $15 for a month or maybe even $78 for 6 months. All for a potentially awful product that could be unplayable at first.
Do you understand the trepidation? Or the bashing? I think it's only sane to have Blizzard demonstrate server stability with just a week to go. That hasn't been done. To put it simply, if next weekend is just like this weekend, you're throwing your money away buying this game.
And when the game's released and the servers turn to silly putty, I'll try not to stand up and say "I told you so."
-Bolty
Why do I hear..... - Guest - 11-14-2004
Its possible it will be bad, sure. But I will wait till next weekend before I am worried.
I have experienced some very bad releases(ShadowBane) so I know how bad it can be. But I thinks its smart for Blizz to be testing the servers to the breaking point currently.
My guess is Blizz is trying to see the minimum pipeline they get away with into the server farms. Hopefully they are willing to spend enough money in the end for good performance.
Why do I hear..... - nobbie - 11-14-2004
Bolty,Nov 14 2004, 08:09 PM Wrote:Just one problem - this has been heard before on other MMORPG releases. "The lag and problems we're seeing is because we're testing stuff out on beta servers. It'll be fine on release, really!"
Release day comes. Servers die under the load.
Bolty is correct. I'm currently checking the German WOW fansites for the U.S. Beta reports. The reports are the same as here: long server waiting lines, unsuccessful logins, game crashes, missing content, and the busiest servers have horrible playing lags if you've managed to login successfully. The reported ping rates also don't look very convincing yet. An average ping of 300 to 700 - depending on the game server you're playing on - seems to be quite usual, and that on a DSL modem! This is a "stress test" with lower-than-full capacity for sure, but with just one(!) single week left for further game enhancements, the servers will certainly go down on their kness when WOW is released. Remember that the game is being rushed with a clever "limited" pre-order sales strategy in light of EQ2's early release. It's still all just beta-testing, not just for the game content and balancing but also for the server loads. The fansites have reported within 24 hours 500,000(!) people wanting to test out the U.S. Beta, and you can expect at least 1,500,000 customers and early subscribers world-wide once WOW has hit the stores. Significant technical difficulties for at least one month, after WOW has gone live, can therefore be expected. Note that Blizzard has "just" experience with their proprietary, limited Battle.net system, but not yet with a VLS ("Very Large Scale") MMOG-system a la EQ or UO.
The WOW "Collector's Edition" has one free month included, so you won't have to pay $15 for a month that might turn out horrible. I don't know if the normal WOW package includes that free month. Anyway, if you have decided to play WOW, you're probably doing yourself a BIG favor if you wait with your purchase at least 4 weeks after WOW has gone live. Check the fansites often during that time and read what the first customers have to say especially about the server performances. That should save you from some grey hairs for sure ;)
Why do I hear..... - Guest - 11-15-2004
Server lines are to be expected for now. Think about it. They have to sort the people if there are server caps.
There is going to be bad performance if they let too many people on 1 server. Blizz said that many months ago. So if people are trying to get on servers that are full there will be lines.
I do see a potential problem in this respect once the game goes live because people will want to be on servers with friends. It really a "people" rather than "game" issue and make takee weeks to sort itself out.
Of course the servers could just work like #$%& when the game goes live, but its to early to predict that.
Why do I hear..... - Thecla - 11-15-2004
Bolty,Nov 14 2004, 12:09 PM Wrote:Release day comes. Servers die under the load.
[right][snapback]60186[/snapback][/right]
It looks like WoW is/will be a run-away big seller. Perhaps Bliz could handle a normal sort of MMORPG launch, but WoW is going to be much bigger than that. It's hard to believe -- especially with the open beta lag/server issues so far -- that Bliz will be able to manage the actual demand. My guess is that a melt down on release day and the week(s) following is pretty likely.
Why do I hear..... - Artega - 11-15-2004
And that's not touching on the fact that every single area in Mulgore, The Barrens, Stonetalon Mountains, Ashenvale, and Durotar is going to redefine camped for the first few weeks of WoW's release. I'm probably going to pick up normal WoW (CE is nice, and I really wanted a mini-Diablo, but I just can't justify the extra $30, especially since a refurbished Sony DVD+RW drive I recently installed borked my PSU, prompting a $40 to my account for a new PSU) on release day, slog my way through the log-in lag, and reserve a character name or two, and TRY to play for an hour or two. Then I'll probably put it up and play Counter-Strike: Source, Half-Life 2, and Footmen Frenzy (for War3) until the lag dies down some.
If any company can pull this off, it's Blizzard, but I'm not placing any bets.
Why do I hear..... - Rinnhart - 11-15-2004
Artega,Nov 15 2004, 01:36 AM Wrote:And that's not touching on the fact that every single area in Mulgore, The Barrens, Stonetalon Mountains, Ashenvale, and Durotar is going to redefine camped for the first few weeks of WoW's release. I'm probably going to pick up normal WoW (CE is nice, and I really wanted a mini-Diablo, but I just can't justify the extra $30, especially since a refurbished Sony DVD+RW drive I recently installed borked my PSU, prompting a $40 to my account for a new PSU) on release day, slog my way through the log-in lag, and reserve a character name or two, and TRY to play for an hour or two. Then I'll probably put it up and play Counter-Strike: Source, Half-Life 2, and Footmen Frenzy (for War3) until the lag dies down some.
If any company can pull this off, it's Blizzard, but I'm not placing any bets.
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Has there, in the history of MMOs, ever been a smooth launch?
We're talking about the most bestial pieces of software ever produced for the open market. Hate-spawned server demons burst from the darkest recesses of the abyss when one of these launch.
Wait till the first/second week of December, minimum, if you don't want your experience ruined. Otherwise, get in line, we want on the servers too.
This till won't compare to the #$%&-storms unleased by an expansion launch. At least there's no game balance to break with the new content.
Why do I hear..... - nobbie - 11-15-2004
Ghostiger,Nov 15 2004, 12:05 AM Wrote:There is going to be bad performance if they let too many people on 1 server.
This raises a question: Will your character(s) be available only on the server(s) where they have been created, or are they server-independent? I seem to remember a post on the German beta site that someone couldn't play his highest level character because the beta server #<number> was full ...
Why do I hear..... - Arnulf - 11-15-2004
nobbie,Nov 15 2004, 11:24 AM Wrote:This raises a question: Will your character(s) be available only on the server(s) where they have been created, or are they server-independent? I seem to remember a post on the German beta site that someone couldn't play his highest level character because the beta server #<number> was full ...
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Yes.
You can have several characters on different servers. But once they are created they cannot change servers.
-Arnulf
Why do I hear..... - nobbie - 11-15-2004
Arnulf,Nov 15 2004, 10:16 AM Wrote:Yes.That really might p*ss some people off if the server(s) in question are not available or too full/laggy ...
You can have several characters on different servers. But once they are created they cannot change servers.
Why do I hear..... - Guest - 11-15-2004
DAoC had a smooth even perfect launch. It was the only major MMORP to pull that off, but if I remember right CoH went well too.
You have to give Mythic some credit for running DAoC so well. They only ever had/have server lag in giant fights(300 or more people). and they have had almost down time in three years(patch day mornings ussually have 2-6 hours of downtime).
Honestly Ill be very dissapointed in Blizz if they dont make a smooth launch. It will show that Vivindi isnt putting the resources behind the game that it needs.
Why do I hear..... - BEEFMOTRTON - 11-15-2004
It's improved slightly the last couple days. I just hope it keeps improving.
I'm very optimistic about what they'll be able to do, but they don't have much time to get it done.
Why do I hear..... - TheDragoon - 11-15-2004
I have also been unable to connect to the Beta server today (at least, it won't let me select any of my characters). I finally broke down and started a new Warlock on the Pacific Role-Playing server. It was kind of sad, though, as I had just started one (and gotten to level 9) on the Beta server. With as little time as I have to play nowadays, even those first 9 levels is a pretty big set-back. :(
Why do I hear..... - Iolair - 11-17-2004
Rinnhart,Nov 15 2004, 11:10 AM Wrote:Has there, in the history of MMOs, ever been a smooth launch?There has been smooth launches. As Ghosttiger said, DAoC went well, CoH went well and EQ2 also went well (and is still running well).
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It will be sad if Blizzard can't make a smooth launch. We can still hope though.
Why do I hear..... - smithy - 11-17-2004
Iolair,Nov 17 2004, 09:03 AM Wrote:There has been smooth launches. As Ghosttiger said, DAoC went well, CoH went well and EQ2 also went well (and is still running well).DAOC's launch may have been lag-free but it certainly wasn't smooth.
It will be sad if Blizzard can't make a smooth launch. We can still hope though.
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The game was missing HUGE portions of its content on release.
Smithy