Quote:You know, the level 84 character who comes in, asks you to come to town, drops a bunch of uber equipment, and demands a trade.  Trading uber equipment with a level 11 paladin?  What the hell?

Quote:So, I'm up in Harrogath or something, and a level 4 character comes and startings spamming things like, "rush plz," "give itamz," or "needt wp."

Quote:The third type of crazy person would be a high level dude I just met a few minutes ago.  He came into my game where I was doing the Act I NM quests, found me and proceeded to slaughter every monster in a 3-Act radius, then asked me to come to town, opened up the trade screen, put all of his equipment in there--most of which was probably obtained illegally--said, "bin... dego tish waht u need," then closed the trade window. 

Quote:Of course, he then proceeded to ask me what my ranking was, going about how I 'mus be nuub' that I didn't know that non-ladder characters had rankings.  He said that you put in some funky code with your account name and password and it'll tell you your rank. 

Quote:This would be the 'inept PK' type.  This is the guy who comes in, hostiles me, can't seem to find me--even after I tp up to town--and then leaves... only to come back a few minutes later and repeat the whole thing.  The last guy was in the same game as the crazy rank person.  He left and came back something like 4 times. 

Munkay,Dec 10 2004, 02:18 PM Wrote:Maybe I just have a thicker skin than some lurkers, but I've never viewed closed battle.net public games as the vast wasteland everyone posts about.  Now I'm pretty sure I've earned the chops to say that.  I've been an avid player since the beta, and always played USeast.

I have some real life friends I play with, as well as loungers Spiderdrake and Luke.  I've made quite a few friends through pubby games, including Sam [Drust, Menestyr], who is responsible for inviting me to check out the lurkerlounge community.

There are spammers, which either leave the game within 10 seconds, or can easily be squelched.  The pk'ers are pretty easily avoided.  [Note:  I played for hours every day for the first two years straight, and I've still never been unintentionally PK'd (If I don't have exp I am willing to take the challenge and see how I fare).]

Not everyone twinks their characters, though I agree most do.

The dupe/hack argument has been beaten to death, and I am in no way trying to revive any argument about it, nor support any of it.  But I do want to say that high end items are not that impossible to get (speaking from personal experience).  This summer I started from scratch with my best friend, within 2 weeks we had most exceptional uniques, and were trading for elite uniques.  With these we started doing baal runs.  From there it turned into solo baal runs.  Within a 2 months we had numerous 80+ chars, and a ladder druid (we quit at level 91), and were using very high end elite uniques.

Yes, we traded.  Did we probably trade in dupes?  It's entirely possible.  But its also entirely possible to get to that point quickly with some dedication, and that goal in mind.  I've spent plenty of time playing no twink chars, dabbled in hardcore, etc.  I've never felt limited by public games.

Public games are just that; Public.  As much as we'd like to force our morality on them, or at least some form of morality, its not right.  Different strokes for different folks.  If you want a good community for games, there is still an active basin presence online.  There are still loungers floating around who play.

I'm not putting down what you've said, if anything I mean to agree with it.  But its just the nature of the beast.  It is what it is.  I'm just wondering why we spend so much time discussing it or worrying about it.  If you don't like it, you really don't need to play it, the tools for a fun time 'non public' are around.

Cheers,

Munk
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MEAT,Dec 12 2004, 04:59 AM Wrote:People in hardcore play the game differently I guess, and on the ladder, to my knowledge there are no dupes this season on hardcore (although I haven’t been playing for awhile).[right][snapback]62642[/snapback][/right]

Munkay,Dec 12 2004, 10:00 AM Wrote:The only dupe I encountered or heard about in Softcore USEast was a Ber Rune.  We found out the hard way, by trading some legit items for it.  Sure enough a week later it was swallowed.

I just laughed.  Like I said its the nature of the beast.  Like buying a used car, sometimes you just buy a lemon.  :D

Cheers,

Munk
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Griselda,Dec 13 2004, 02:55 AM Wrote:Well, if you're trading legit items for dupes, the dupers get value for their actions, and are more likely to continue doing so. :(
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Munkay,Dec 13 2004, 03:24 PM Wrote:I am in no way trying to defend cheating/hacking or duping [...]

I repeat, I am not supporting hacking or duping in any way, nor trying to make a defense for it [...]

if any of this post comes off [...] sounding in support of duping, please accept my humble apologies and edit the post as you see fit. [...]
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Munkay,Dec 13 2004, 05:24 AM Wrote:In my long tenure of online play, the Ber rune is the first item I've ever known to be duped (and the first item I've ever had that got 'swallowed').  I am in no way trying to defend cheating/hacking or duping.  My point is merely 'in my experience, there are a lot more legit items and players out there than I think loungers give credit.'

I was merely trying to make the point that not all of closed battle.net is corrupt.  Sure there are bad people running around who mess things up occaisionally.  The same is true in real life.  But in the same way we do not hide in our homes out of fear of supporting these bad people, perhaps we shouldn't hide from closed battle.net.  Its been my experience that a lot more good people exist out there than I often see accredited in peoples opinions on the lounge.

I repeat, I am not supporting hacking or duping in any way, nor trying to make a defense for it.  I feel just as strongly that it can ruin a game.  But I do not feel my trading habits have shown to actively support duping (the Ber rune is the first and only dupe I've run across), nor do I think that anyone who has a windforce must necissarily have duped it.

I hope I do not offend you Griselda or anyone on the lounge, and if any of this post comes off sounding in opposition with you, or sounding in support of duping, please accept my humble apologies and edit the post as you see fit.  Its 8 am here and I just finished a term paper on Aristotle at 5 am.  Its entirely possible my brain is not functioning too well at this point.

Cheers,

Munk
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Griselda,Dec 14 2004, 06:43 AM Wrote:While I don't hide in my house in fear of "bad people", if someone who I didn't know came to my door right now and offered to sell me a car stereo, I wouldn't buy it.  We all know it would probably be stolen.  On the other hand, if my car stereo broke, and a friend offered me an extra one that they had, I would happily accept their offer.  You can see the distinction, can't you?  That's how I look at trading.
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Griselda,Dec 13 2004, 08:43 PM Wrote:I knew that I was treading in dangerous territory by posting this, but please don't feel that you have to be that nervous to state your opinion here.  I believe that it's the large number of average people who don't support cheating but still trade items that create the "economy" that encourages duping to exist.  So, I don't trade, but I will take items from friends (if I know where they got it) or give items away.  I also realize that I'm not likely to get the majority of players to agree with me here, although I wish that weren't the case.

While I don't hide in my house in fear of "bad people", if someone who I didn't know came to my door right now and offered to sell me a car stereo, I wouldn't buy it.  We all know it would probably be stolen.  On the other hand, if my car stereo broke, and a friend offered me an extra one that they had, I would happily accept their offer.  You can see the distinction, can't you?  That's how I look at trading.  In my ideal version of Diablo, that's how things would go.

No, I won't ban you for disagreeing with me.  That's not what I'm about.
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Quote:What does bother me, which is why I replied, is when people have a "ho hum" attitude about items that disappear.  You bought a dupe!  Be angry!  Look more closely at potential deals!  Otherwise, you're just perpetuating the system.

Griselda,Dec 14 2004, 10:20 AM Wrote:I don't have the possibility of checking out the seller.  There's less information for me to use to make that decision.  I've also never been super focused on items.

Quote:I think that you should not let cheaters detract from your gaming experience. I don't play with known cheaters though, even if I know them personally.

Munkay,Dec 14 2004, 09:21 AM Wrote:The 'ho hum' attitude to losing the Ber rune stems from the belief that I'm investing time in Diablo II for the fun of it.  As Fraigbait said
....
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Archon_Wing,Dec 14 2004, 09:02 PM Wrote:Hey get your sources right. :D You know, I'm not as reliable as a source as Fraigbait.
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Bob the Beholder,Dec 10 2004, 10:12 AM Wrote:So, after my long... LONG... years of avoiding battle.net, one of my friends convinced me that the spammers and lag and random PKers have subsided since my last hour or so attempt at playing. 

The result:  SeekerDrone on USEast.  Woo. 

But, anyway, I've just been screwing around, building up a couple of characters for a while.  And I've finally got a paladin--Bindego--into Nightmare. 

Now, the first of the crazy people would be the ones I saw early in my characters' careers.  You know, the level 84 character who comes in, asks you to come to town, drops a bunch of uber equipment, and demands a trade.  Trading uber equipment with a level 11 paladin?  What the hell? 

Now if the name of the game were 'Mule Trading' or some such, then, yeah, it would make sense.  But these are games that I make myself, which generally have names like, "Fuuuu,"  or "Goober."

The second type of crazy person would be when I've gotten up to a high enough level that I've pretty much got the run of normal.  So, I'm up in Harrogath or something, and a level 4 character comes and startings spamming things like, "rush plz," "give itamz," or "needt wp."

Okaaay...  This may come from all that crazy 'single player' stuff... but why don't people play the games themselves?  I'm not too fond of slogging through Acts 1-3 for the 150th time myself, but at least I don't just latch on to larger characters and hang out there, picking up his/her leavings, like some sort of creepy little suckerfish. 

The third type of crazy person would be a high level dude I just met a few minutes ago.  He came into my game where I was doing the Act I NM quests, found me and proceeded to slaughter every monster in a 3-Act radius, then asked me to come to town, opened up the trade screen, put all of his equipment in there--most of which was probably obtained illegally--said, "bin... dego tish waht u need," then closed the trade window. 

Uhhh... 'kay.  For one, the dude was a hammerdin.  I am not a hammerdin.  The equipment of a hammerdin and... any other paladin in existence should be a bit different.

Of course, he then proceeded to ask me what my ranking was, going about how I 'mus be nuub' that I didn't know that non-ladder characters had rankings.  He said that you put in some funky code with your account name and password and it'll tell you your rank. 

Okay.  I don't know much about all of this crazy multi-player stuff, but I've never been told about a non-ladder ranking.  Especially one where to find out what your rank is you have to put in your password.  For all I know he was telling the truth, but I'm not about to be typing my password into anything but the 'log into b.net' box when strangers are around.

Well, I guess I do have a fourth type of crazy person, although I've only seen two.  This would be the 'inept PK' type.  This is the guy who comes in, hostiles me, can't seem to find me--even after I tp up to town--and then leaves... only to come back a few minutes later and repeat the whole thing.  The last guy was in the same game as the crazy rank person.  He left and came back something like 4 times. 

Well... I've suddenly run out of rambling power.  I guess that means this topic is done.
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Archon_Wing,Dec 16 2004, 02:01 PM Wrote:From my experience I would rank the battle.net communities as such.

Diablo 2 > Starcraft > Warcraft III.


But then, I'm also the type to find some fun with people trying to Pk me (not drop/trigger hacking, of course) , so this may be somewhat skewed. :o
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