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Milk - Daemon - 03-17-2005
The fact that milk isn't the best thing for you is something I already knew, but having ran across on this website, I'm thinking of quiting it for good!
Even if the whole "it's full of fat, causes cancer..." and such were overblown, the fact remains that the production of milk is inneficient and the way the animals are treated.... Makes me sick... :angry:
I haven't had time to read all of it yet, so I have missed things obviously.
I can see myself giving up milk, but all that oh so delicious cheese.... :( I'd miss that! Guess it's a sacrifice I'd have to make!
I'd like to know what you guys think on that matter.
Cheers!
-D
Milk - Treesh - 03-17-2005
I grew up on and around dairy farms in Wisconsin. I saw no mistreatment of animals such as described in the article. As far as I'm concerned, it's a bunch of alarmist crap and since I enjoy dairy products, I will continue to consume them and help support my good friends who are still dairy farmers on their small family farms.
Moderation is the key - not too much, not too little. Consume too much or too little of most things, and there are bad consequences. As to milk containing things that cause cancer, if you're worried about that, just stop breathing and drinking anything right now. So many studies have claimed so many things cause cancer that if you're worried about it, you had best just shoot yourself now because just about everything nowadays seems to cause some kind of cancer.
To sum up, it's just alarmist tripe the way it is presented. Some good points sprinkled here and there, but most of it is just trying to scare people.
Milk - Bun-Bun - 03-17-2005
I think it's contaminated with DHMO. Won't touch the stuff.
Milk - Daemon - 03-17-2005
Bun-Bun,Mar 17 2005, 07:31 PM Wrote:I think it's contaminated with DHMO. Won't touch the stuff.
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DHMO!?!??
Run for your life!!!
Seriously, took me about 10 seconds to get it, the site is pretty genuine-looking, without any dead-giveways...
-Treesh, I agree that not all cows are mistreated and, yes, just about everything seems to cause cancer... And I'm pretty sure you'd have to drink lots and lots of it for it to have nasty effects on you. My mother has always been very "granola" (not sure if this expression makes any sense in english, it does here in Québec), so I've sort of been tainted with this notion of many things we consume being bad for us.
But we, the humans, are the only specie who continue to consume milk after we've grown up, and that of another animal too. There's just something in there that makes more or less sense. It is a nutritious food, but it's all stuff we can find in other foods if we're careful what we eat.
I guess it'd be wiser to start my crusade against tobacco/sedentarity, those are nastier than milk, tenfold....
-D
(Edit: somehow, "cruIsade" made sense to me... but then again, we're talking about me... :) thanks Minionman!)
Milk - Minionman - 03-17-2005
Daemon,Mar 17 2005, 02:11 PM Wrote:DHMO!?!??
Run for your life!!!
Seriously, took me about 10 seconds to get it, the site is pretty genuine-looking, without any dead-giveways...
-Treesh, I agree that not all cows are mistreated and, yes, just about everything seems to cause cancer... And I'm pretty sure you'd have to drink lots and lots of it for it to have nasty effects on you. My mother has always been very "granola" (not sure if this expression makes any sense in english, it does here in Québec), so I've sort of been tainted with this notion of many things we consume being bad for us.
But we, the humans, are the only specie who continue to consume milk after we've grown up, and that of another animal too. There's just something in there that makes more or less sense. It is a nutritious food, but it's all stuff we can find in other foods if we're careful what we eat.
I guess it'd be wiser to start my cruisade against tobacco/sedentarity, those are nastier than milk, tenfold....
-D
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Cruisade? Is that a new type of french food? Cool, I want some :P (A.k.a. a funnier version of a spelling nitpick)
From what I've heard, people are either "designed" to eat plants only, or "designed" to eat many types of food, of which milk is one possible one. Bugs, blood, and mushrooms, for example, are eaten by certain groups of people, and they do fine. I also figure that maybe some chemicals aren't healthy, but people don't know exactly, but some of the processing gets rid of germs, which I'd also rather not have.
Milk - Raelynn - 03-17-2005
Treesh,Mar 17 2005, 03:27 PM Wrote:I grew up on and around dairy farms in Wisconsin. I saw no mistreatment of animals such as described in the article. As far as I'm concerned, it's a bunch of alarmist crap and since I enjoy dairy products, I will continue to consume them and help support my good friends who are still dairy farmers on their small family farms.
Moderation is the key - not too much, not too little. Consume too much or too little of most things, and there are bad consequences. As to milk containing things that cause cancer, if you're worried about that, just stop breathing and drinking anything right now. So many studies have claimed so many things cause cancer that if you're worried about it, you had best just shoot yourself now because just about everything nowadays seems to cause some kind of cancer.
To sum up, it's just alarmist tripe the way it is presented. Some good points sprinkled here and there, but most of it is just trying to scare people.
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I'd have to agree. I didn't grow up on a farm, but I grew up knowing people on a farm. My family owns a house in upstate PA, and is good friends with farmers there and I've never seen or heard of any mistreatment.
As for the cancer thing, I'm reminded of a quote, though I don't know where it came from:
"Scientists have determined that laboratory research causes cancer in lab rats".
Milk - Nystul - 03-17-2005
I stopped reading at the PETA banner. If you want objective information about any food product made from an animal, a good place to start would be ignoring any site with a PETA banner.
On the whole, I would say the health benefits of a few servings of dairy products a day outweigh the risks. There are ways to make up for the nutritional value of milk, but it has to be a conscious effort. There are a lot of people in the world with health problems due to calcium deficiency.
As for the treatment of the animals: I'm no expert on livestock, but I am under the impression that if dairy cows were left unmilked, they would have health problems as a result.
Milk - Munkay - 03-18-2005
Nystul,Mar 17 2005, 06:59 PM Wrote:I stopped reading at the PETA banner.
Same for me. <_<
Cheers,
Munk
Milk - Sir_Die_alot - 03-18-2005
Nystul,Mar 17 2005, 03:59 PM Wrote:I stopped reading at the PETA banner. If you want objective information about any food product made from an animal, a good place to start would be ignoring any site with a PETA banner.I get worse symptoms by reading PETA tripe than they try to tell me I will get from milk. "The late Dr. Benjamin Spock, America's leading authority on child care" *cough* Right... our lone leading athority...
No offence Daemon, but you got chumped by whoever gave you the link to this site. PETA has one goal: everyone is a strict vegitarian and nobody uses animals for anything. Whatever they say or do is geared tward that goal.
Milk - Assur - 03-18-2005
Since cows die a painful death if they are not milked regularly you won't be doing them a favour if you stop drinking milk! As regards the statement that humans are the only species that drinks milk when it is mature, I can only say that our dogs and cats certainly were very happy when they had the chance to drink milk, regardless of their age.
Milk - whyBish - 03-18-2005
Treesh,Mar 18 2005, 08:27 AM Wrote:you had best just shoot yourself now because just about everything nowadays seems to cause some kind of cancer.
Not to mention sitting in front of a computer screen.
I think sitting in front of something that is firing electrons in your general direction at 1/10th the speed of light is more likely to do damage to you than milk...
Milk - Occhidiangela - 03-18-2005
Daemon,Mar 17 2005, 01:04 PM Wrote:The fact that milk isn't the best thing for you is something I already knew, but having ran across on this website, I'm thinking of quiting it for good!
Even if the whole "it's full of fat, causes cancer..." and such were overblown, the fact remains that the production of milk is inneficient and the way the animals are treated.... Makes me sick... :angry:
-D
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Last I checked, being born leads to dying. Milk has much to recommend it, and a few downsides. If one is lactose intolerant, milk and cheese (what would life be without cheese?) are off the diet. My poor dad, developed LI late in life.
I hope I don't.
And since it is ST Paddy's day, I had two glasses of Mothers' Milk, aka, Guinness. :D
For Tal: A man darn near poisened me on Tuesday, served me a glass of water . . . :D
Occhi
Milk - eppie - 03-18-2005
Nystul,Mar 17 2005, 11:59 PM Wrote:As for the treatment of the animals: I'm no expert on livestock, but I am under the impression that if dairy cows were left unmilked, they would have health problems as a result.
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Come on, let's keep the discussion a bit for grown-ups he! Or were you joking.
It is true though that the whole animal industry is not one of the nicest examples of human achievement.
I try only to drink biological milk, which is from cows that spend most of their time outside.
But apart from milk, if you want to do something good for animal treatment, environment 3rd world poverty, try eating 50 % less meat....if everybody would do so the world would look a lot better.
Milk - kandrathe - 03-18-2005
Minionman,Mar 17 2005, 03:54 PM Wrote:Cruisade? Is that a new type of french food? Cool, I want some :P (A.k.a. a funnier version of a spelling nitpick)
From what I've heard, people are either "designed" to eat plants only, or "designed" to eat many types of food, of which milk is one possible one. Bugs, blood, and mushrooms, for example, are eaten by certain groups of people, and they do fine. I also figure that maybe some chemicals aren't healthy, but people don't know exactly, but some of the processing gets rid of germs, which I'd also rather not have.
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Merriam Webster's Manufactured Word Dictionary says;
Cruisade
1 a military expedition undertaken by Christians where they sail from port to port trying to win back the Holy Land from the Muslims
2 : to travel on a remedial enterprise without destination or purpose and undertaken with zeal and enthusiasm
Milk - kandrathe - 03-18-2005
eppie,Mar 18 2005, 08:28 AM Wrote:Come on, let's keep the discussion a bit for grown-ups he! Or were you joking.
It is true though that the whole animal industry is not one of the nicest examples of human achievement.
I try only to drink biological milk, which is from cows that spend most of their time outside.
But apart from milk, if you want to do something good for animal treatment, environment 3rd world poverty, try eating 50 % less meat....if everybody would do so the world would look a lot better.
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Bah. The key word is here is industry.
Like Treesh, I come from the farming region. My enterprise growing up was raising about 50 grade AAA beef cattle per year for slaughter. Some factory feed lot operations are much less personalized, but generally, the cattle hang out, they get fed and excercised, and then when they are big enough they get killed. I don't like what has happened in the industrialization of farming, but more in what it does to "family farms" and the rural way of life.
I had one neighbor, also a "family farmer" who raised about 10,000 hogs per year. They were never mistreated, lived outdoors, and had plenty of space. But, they could never have the kind of human interaction that I did with my mere 50. He also made a boatload more money than I did.
First off, the traditional dairy farmers I knew babied their milking cows. They named each one and tended to them with love. Dairy cows are in great discomfort if they are not milked on time, and might suffer from mastitis.
I eat very little beef, but I'll try eating 50% less beef if the 3rd world agrees to have 50% less children. The poverty problem has more to do with population growth exceeding per capita GNP growth in the developing world.
Milk - ShadowHM - 03-18-2005
kandrathe,Mar 18 2005, 09:30 AM Wrote:First off, the traditional dairy farmers I knew babied their milking cows. They named each one and tended to them with love. Dairy cows are in great discomfort if they are not milked on time, and might suffer from mastitis.
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I just have to throw in this (non-topic-related) anecdote. I was going through a messy box of very old photographs with my mother, a while back, trying to figure out who/where/what they were all about.
One of them was a photograph of a herd of cows. When we flipped it over, every single one of them had been identified by name. :blink:
Milk - eppie - 03-18-2005
kandrathe,Mar 18 2005, 02:30 PM Wrote:First off, the traditional dairy farmers I knew babied their milking cows. They named each one and tended to them with love. Dairy cows are in great discomfort if they are not milked on time, and might suffer from mastitis.
I eat very little beef, but I'll try eating 50% less beef if the 3rd world agrees to have 50% less children. The poverty problem has more to do with population growth exceeding per capita GNP growth in the developing world.
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Of course, but most countries don't have enough space to let their animals walk around freely. In Holland we have around 15 million pigs (hogs) but you can drive around for years without ever seeing one. (apart from when the go on transport to Parma, to become the famous prosciuto di Parma, which is later sold in Holland for a very nice prize).
I did not want to "insult" teh normal farmer, I just wanted to point out the benefits of eating less meat. Fish is another thing, the energy balance there is completely wrong. It cost around 15 times more resources to put them on your plate then you get from burning it.
And there are even development countries that grow crops for feeding their livestock which they then sell to western countries, while meanwhile their own people are dying of starvation. In Brazil they are burning down rainforrest for these kind of practices.
And we in the west with our trade constrictions are even worse. We subsidize farmers to be able to (in our small country, with tough rules) sell their products to e.g. germany for prizes that are lower than what farmers from let's say afrika and south america ask. That means that per ton of grain, milk, meat, we pay hundreds of euro's to these farmers just to be able to export....but that is another discussion.
eppie
Milk - Rhydderch Hael - 03-18-2005
Bun-Bun,Mar 17 2005, 11:31 AM Wrote:I think it's contaminated with DHMO. Won't touch the stuff.Shouldn't it be DPMO instead? You know, to differentiate it from DDMOâ which is, I hear, even worse (Hitler wanted to use it!).
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Milk - Munkay - 03-18-2005
ShadowHM,Mar 18 2005, 09:36 AM Wrote:I just have to throw in this (non-topic-related) anecdote. I was going through a messy box of very old photographs with my mother, a while back, trying to figure out who/where/what they were all about.
One of them was a photograph of a herd of cows. When we flipped it over, every single one of them had been identified by name. :blink:
:lol:
Typically people name their house pets. Let's hope that's not the case as well. ;)
Thanks for the good laugh,
Cheers,
Munk
Milk - jahcs - 03-18-2005
kandrathe,Mar 18 2005, 06:30 AM Wrote:I eat very little beef, but I'll try eating 50% less beef if the 3rd world agrees to have 50% less children. The poverty problem has more to do with population growth exceeding per capita GNP growth in the developing world.
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:lol: :lol: