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Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - MongoJerry - 05-29-2005
With a heavy heart, I have an announcement to make. The character of Neriad on Tichondrius is no longer a member of the Lurking Loungers. But fear not, MongoJerry is not leaving. I have created a new hunter character, named Pandarus, who will most assuredly be a Lurking Lounger for life, and guild leadership (which is very informal on Tichondrius) has been transferred to him.
I've come to this decision after months of deliberation and resistance. It's difficult for me to explain what I've been going through and to get across just how much I've agonized over this decision, especially since for most of you, this may seem out of the blue. Rest assured that it is not. As most people know, Tichondrius has only a small Lurker population on it (I still blame Bolty and all his anti-PvP ravings for that). For a couple of months, Neriad was the only level 60 Lurker on the server and even now, there's only one other level 60 member of the Lurking Loungers (Boutros). For many months, Neriad has been having to make her way on her own, teaming up with random strangers she met on her travels. Having a strong explorer type personality (note: I tend towards depth rather than breadth in my explorations, so I tend to stick to a small set of things and explore every nuance of whatever it is) mixed in with some social and achiever personality, I knew that I would want to explore every area and every quest and event in the game. I knew from the beginning that I would face one major stumbling block in my goals -- finding a good group with whom I could explore end game raiding content.
Obviously, the Lurking Loungers was not going to provide 40+ high-powered characters who would consistently raid together. At first, I had a fleeting hope that the Amazon Basin would fill the void and organize end-game raiding groups that I could get involved with. However, like the Lurker Lounge, the Amazon Basin has a tendency to attract more social/explorer type players. It's certainly fun to hang out with them, but the fact is that if you want to get far in end game content, one needs a group with a healthy dose of achiever type personalities who can cut through the BS and focus on the goal at hand, even if it takes days or weeks to achieve a particular goal. (I'm happy to see that the Basin has recently gotten into a rhythm of raiding Molten Core, and I wish there weren't raid lockout periods, so I could raid with you guys as well).
Not having a pre-set group of players I could raid with, I started asking people I instanced with whose gameplay and sense of fairness I respected about whether their guilds were raiding Molten Core or Onyxia and whether they could use another level 60 priestess to go on their raids (the answer to the last question is always: yes). After being invited to a couple of mostly disastrous Molten Core raids, I ended up being invited to a raid organized by a little known guild called the Offenders in mid-February. This particular raid was about 1/3rd Offenders and 2/3rds pickup raid, and I was immediately impressed with the raid leadership's ability to organize the raid and keep things going. Even when we wiped several times, there wasn't any bickering. The discussion was always about what went wrong and how we could do things better. By the end of the evening, we had achieved the first kill of Magmadar for the Horde on Tichondrius, and we all felt really good about the accomplishment. I immediately made arrangements to make sure that I could go on future runs with them, and a number of other people went so far as to join the guild specifically because of the good experiences they had on Molten Core runs around that time period.
Fast forward to today, and despite some rocky moments, I've found that I've spent nearly every weekend raiding Molten Core with the Offenders. I have long resisted attempts to recruit me into the guild by repeatedly explaining about how weird it would be for me specifically to leave the Lurking Loungers, and I've often made the suggestion that it would help the Offenders more if I stayed out of the guild, so I could take on the role of the "elder statesman" or "reasoned 3rd party" when problems arise (stuff happens). Still, as the Offenders guild grew, things became more difficult. When the guild had under 30 members who would consistently come to the raids, it wasn't any big deal to be an outsider invited to the raid. However, when 45+ people were showing up on time to raids, meaning that several people would be left in out in the cold, some people started asking questions about why non-guildmates were being invited. A turning point occurred about a month ago when the Darkstalkers, a small 5-player guild that had been raiding with the Offenders long before I had, decided that it was silly to remain separate and disbanded their guild to join the Offenders. From that point on, all raids were 39 Offenders + Neriad. You can imagine what the pressure was like on the leaders of the Offenders at that moment -- as well as on myself.
From that moment on, every raid I would receive questions from different people, asking "When are you going to join the guild?" There were also lots of more subtle comments like, "There are 44 Offenders in Kargath, let's figure out the invites." "Don't forget Neriad." "Oh, yeah, 44 plus Neriad." Stuff like that. Neriad was always this sore thumb sticking out, especially when it came time for raid invites and making arrangements for raids. The guild leadership was good about it, and I knew they appreciated my presence and how much I had done for them as well. Still, I didn't like being this constant nagging issue that they had to deal with every time a raid was put together. I decided to look at the issue as objectively as possible, and I listed why I didn't want Neriad to leave the Lurking Loungers:
1. As the site administrator for the WoW section of the Lurker Lounge, it would be weird to have me leave the on-line guild, despite my oft repeated assertions that the Lurker Lounge is not a guild.
2. I keep hoping that more Lurkers would get bored with playing PvE and would come over to explore a part of the game they haven't really tried out -- the intensity that the PvP aspect of the game brings. I was one of those who spit venom and bile about how awful PK's and PK'ing was in Diablo II, so I was surprised by how much I enjoyed and continue to enjoy PvPing in WoW. I had this hope that if I just kept playing, my presence would somehow encourage people who did decide to make a character on Tichondrius to keep playing.
3. Having the Lurking Loungers guild banner was a nice advertisement for the site.
4. Let's face it. I like being an individual, so it was fun to be the oddball both in the raids and on the server.
5. The guild tabard rocks.
At the same time, I had to look at the reality of the situation. For the last two months, Neriad has spent her time in Azeroth as follows:
1. Raiding Molten Core and Onyxia with the Offenders.
2. PvPing with members of the Offenders. (The #1 ranked Horde player on the server in terms of contribution points is a hunter who's in the Offenders, and it is fun teaming up with him in 5-man teams). This has included some sessions testing the battlegrounds on the test server.
3. Farming stuff to prepare for raids with the Offenders.
Basically, all instance running has stopped for Neriad, because she has done everything there is to do in all the instances, and she owns almost all the decent blue loot that drops in them. Oh, sure, there are those 1-in-1000 drops in some instances that could improve her equipment, but I have long been too bored with the same old instances to try to get those for her. She has also done every quest in every high level zone, except for the Battle of Darrowshire (which she will do one day, darnit!). Everything that Neriad has been doing has been with the Offenders. It seemed ridiculous to pretend that it's not true.
I then thought about my long planned idea of creating a hunter character. I had created one in the beta, getting him up to level 58, and I wanted to create a new one after seeing some really good hunters in action in both PvE and PvP. When I thought about that, most of my reservations about having Neriad leave the Lurking Loungers melted away:
1. Yes, it's weird to leave the Lurking Loungers, but the Lurker Lounge is not a guild, darnit! Besides, it would not be MongoJerry leaving the Lurking Loungers but one specific character, whose adventures I would still like to write about -- if she has any more adventures worthy of telling -- and I think her association with the Offenders will allow her to have many more such adventures. In the meantime, Pandarus will carry the flame of the Lurking Loungers brightly, and I will still be active on the server.
2. I still hope that some day more Lurkers will make characters on Tichondrius and try out a different sort of game. We have recently had some people join in fact -- Treesh, Gnollack, and Zippyy come to mind -- and I'm happy to have them there. I hate to have Neriad leave when they're just starting. But then again, I also realized something. Having a level 60 character hanging around who can't play with them isn't going to do them or any other potentially new Lurkers any good. Wouldn't it be better to have a character of their levels who could actually adventure with them?
3. The guild title did spark a few conversations, but I seriously doubt I got anyone to actually visit the site because of it.
4. Being an individual has its rewards, but sometimes it's just nice to see some green text during the game. I have a strong social aspect to my playing personality (I can't count how many wipes have been caused by my being too chatty during instance runs), and it's just nice to be able to talk to people for once.
5. I will definitely miss the guild tabard. The Offenders has one of those mundane blue background with intertwined snakes tabards. So boring. Thank God Pandarus will be able to proudly wear the Lurking Loungers guild tabard. Plus, since he's a Tauren, he's big and doesn't stoop, so people will see it in all its glory.
So as of today, Neriad is no longer a member of the Lurking Loungers. This was a big decision and one that was certainly not made lightly. But rest assured that MongoJerry has not left the Lurking Loungers, and I hope to see more of you join the crew on Tichondrius in the future.
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Bob the Beholder - 05-29-2005
Good that you've found some people to hang around with. Last I knew of, my puny level 23 mage I started back in the day was still probably the sixth highest character in the guild... which is a sad thing, if it's still true.
I tried to play on Tichondrius for a few weeks, back when I first got the game... but, aside from Neriad, there was rarely anyone else around, so it may as well have been solo. So, once I found a pvp server with an active guild full of people I knew... not much left for me in Tichondrius. (I'll still be around there... just not often, much like it's been since I first jumped ship.) So I really can't argue with your decision, especially considering that you're still in the server regularly, which is more than you can say for me.
Good luck with all the crazy raiding stuff. Me, I'm still trying to convince the people I play with to try to get some raids going, even if I'm still not high enough to go with them. Sad thing is, they don't even have an UBRS key yet, and have yet to field a raid larger than 30, and that only to zerg Hillsbrad.
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Kevin - 05-29-2005
Glad to hear that you found a group that works for you. I'm lucky that my play style and altitis make finding a knit group not as important for my enjoyment of the game. You sound very much like Neriad needed to be in a different guild structure. I wonder if you had played on Stormrage (strange cosmic forces, bear with me. :) ) if you would have joined In Aeturnum for much the same reasons that you joined Offenders on Tichondrius.
I'll say that I think part of the lack of people on Tich too is that we still seem to have a lot of "alliance lovers" as well. I know tal who I tried to seduce to Terenas keeps saying that he doesn't really get drawn in by the horde story lines and quests and he is one of the more PvP "friendly" players on Stormrage. Oddly enough my stronger attachment to the horde side (despite not playing there for a long time for odd personal reasons) means that it will be easier for Gnolack to just hang out and help other Lurkers or grind for items for himself or others. Since I never got drawn in by the Alliance story line or quests I won't really feel I'm missing out on much by not doing them anymore. It's simpler to just kill for the sake of killing now.
Little Vanikth was actually the first character to sign the guild charter on Tich, I would pop on an play him now and then from day one onward. Yep that long to get to L18. Of course for various reasons I've wanted a larger more established social structure when playing recently (as odd as some of that may seem to those who know all the details) so even the slightly larger than Tich pop on Terenas has lost my participation. I think Terenas is still only at one L60 still as well.
We just don't have enough people with enough time to support 3 different server environments and without the site growing (I didn't say guild) we never will. The Tichondrius, Terenas, and Kilrogg guilds will stay as smaller little outposts. I'm not even sure if Stormrage will ever support a lot of high end raiding and it's active population is bigger than the rest of the Lurker guilds combined and has the ability to draw on forum goers who are heavily involved in other guilds. I don't think we have a lot of forum goers who play on Kilrogg or Tich, or Terenas who aren't a member of the guilds there.
Battlegrounds will probably keep even more people off Tich as well. It's a completely different type of PvP than questing on a PvP server is, but it's very likely enough PvP for those who want to get a taste of it and while it won't have the same emotional rewards as PvP on a PvP server does, it also won't have the same emotional penalties either.
Anyway, Good Luck and Good Fun to you and Neriad in your travels. It sounds like you will have both. :)
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Zippyy - 05-30-2005
Can I join the Offenders too, dad?
I think your reasons for moving to the Offenders are perfectly sound. However, I will sorely miss having the ability to have the following conversations:
Soandso: "Who are the Lurking Loungers?"
Zip: "Do you know Neriad?"
Soandso: "No, but isn't he the guy that does those instance writeups?"
Zip: "Yeah, that's him.* We are lovers."
Soandso: "That's so hot."
Zip: "Yeah, that's why there is a heart on our tabard."
Soandso: "That's sweet. Hey, can I join?"
Zip: "I don't think he is into that."
* - marks where these conversations actually end.
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Rinnhart - 05-30-2005
Zing. :lol:
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Tal - 05-31-2005
Zippyy,May 30 2005, 09:43 AM Wrote:Soandso: "Who are the Lurking Loungers?"
Zip: "Do you know Neriad?"
Soandso: "No, but isn't he the guy that does those instance writeups?"
Zip: "Yeah, that's him.* We are lovers."
Soandso: "That's so hot."
Zip: "Yeah, that's why there is a heart on our tabard."
Soandso: "That's sweet. Hey, can I join?"
Zip: "I don't think he is into that."
* - marks where these conversations actually end.
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Bolty is going to be so crushed. :(
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Bolty - 05-31-2005
Tal,May 31 2005, 08:24 AM Wrote:Bolty is going to be so crushed. :([right][snapback]79001[/snapback][/right]Tal, please tell me you're kidding, and that you didn't fail to understand the point of my argument from before - that people were leaving the guild just as we were close to the critical mass needed to start raid runs like the Onyxia one coming up this weekend. I don't want to restart that argument, however - I said my piece in the other thread and anyone can review it in case they missed my point.
The Lurkers guild on Tichondrius will never have the population needed to raid, having only a handful of active members. Mongo continues to blame me for this; perhaps he believes Lurkers are all blathering carebears who just do whatever I say and don't have a mind of their own. You know, like Zippyy. :) It also didn't help that the PvP Lurkers didn't organize onto the same server but instead spread themselves out thinly. Mongo was left in a guild that was Neriad and "a few others" - not a fun thing, and quite a different beast than the behemoth guild that Lurkers has become on Stormrage. Add to that the fact that on PvP servers you just about *have* to group in order to get quests done, and a small guild is a death sentence - death by endless ganking due to lack of groups. I'm actually a little surprised that the guild hasn't completely dissolved by now due to these reasons, but Mongo's dedicated to keeping it together.
-Bolty
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - savaughn - 05-31-2005
Bolty,May 31 2005, 07:28 AM Wrote:It also didn't help that the PvP Lurkers didn't organize onto the same server but instead spread themselves out thinly.If there had been an alliance PvP Lurker server, there's no question of which one I would have joined when I started this back in December. Oddly enough, I think there still isn't one.
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Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Tal - 05-31-2005
Bolty,May 31 2005, 10:28 AM Wrote:Tal, please tell me you're kidding, and that you didn't fail to understand the point of my argument from before - that people were leaving the guild just as we were close to the critical mass needed to start raid runs like the Onyxia one coming up this weekend. I don't want to restart that argument, however - I said my piece in the other thread and anyone can review it in case they missed my point.
The Lurkers guild on Tichondrius will never have the population needed to raid, having only a handful of active members. Mongo continues to blame me for this; perhaps he believes Lurkers are all blathering carebears who just do whatever I say and don't have a mind of their own. You know, like Zippyy. :) It also didn't help that the PvP Lurkers didn't organize onto the same server but instead spread themselves out thinly. Mongo was left in a guild that was Neriad and "a few others" - not a fun thing, and quite a different beast than the behemoth guild that Lurkers has become on Stormrage. Add to that the fact that on PvP servers you just about *have* to group in order to get quests done, and a small guild is a death sentence - death by endless ganking due to lack of groups. I'm actually a little surprised that the guild hasn't completely dissolved by now due to these reasons, but Mongo's dedicated to keeping it together.
-Bolty
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You missed the point Mr. B - I meant you would be crushed that Zippyy is taking up with Mongo. ;)
Edited my original post to make my teasing a little more clear. :)
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Tal - 05-31-2005
savaughn,May 31 2005, 10:52 AM Wrote:If there had been an alliance PvP Lurker server, there's no question of which one I would have joined when I started this back in December. Oddly enough, I think there still isn't one.
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I probably would have as well.
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Kevin - 05-31-2005
Tal,May 31 2005, 10:20 AM Wrote:I probably would have as well.
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See, like I said the problem wasn't PvP, the problem was that too many lurkers wanted easy mode! :) :P I know tal cries all the time when he can't play his paladin and use his "I win!" button. :) :P He just struggles and struggles with his warrior and complains about how little fun he has playing her and how much more uber his pally is. :)
He's not the only one either, all just a bunch of easy mode carebears. :)
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Zippyy - 05-31-2005
Bolty,May 31 2005, 10:28 AM Wrote:Tal, please tell me you're kidding, and that you didn't fail to understand the point of my argument from before - that people were leaving the guild just as we were close to the critical mass needed to start raid runs like the Onyxia one coming up this weekend. I don't want to restart that argument, however - I said my piece in the other thread and anyone can review it in case they missed my point.I actually decided on starting on Stormrage because of your anti-PvP points. However, I am not playing on Tich as well because I realized that you were wrong.
The Lurkers guild on Tichondrius will never have the population needed to raid, having only a handful of active members. Mongo continues to blame me for this; perhaps he believes Lurkers are all blathering carebears who just do whatever I say and don't have a mind of their own. You know, like Zippyy. :) It also didn't help that the PvP Lurkers didn't organize onto the same server but instead spread themselves out thinly. Mongo was left in a guild that was Neriad and "a few others" - not a fun thing, and quite a different beast than the behemoth guild that Lurkers has become on Stormrage. Add to that the fact that on PvP servers you just about *have* to group in order to get quests done, and a small guild is a death sentence - death by endless ganking due to lack of groups. I'm actually a little surprised that the guild hasn't completely dissolved by now due to these reasons, but Mongo's dedicated to keeping it together.
-Bolty
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You said that an honor system would "never be implemented." :blush:
I forgive you.
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Tal - 05-31-2005
Gnollguy,May 31 2005, 11:59 AM Wrote:See, like I said the problem wasn't PvP, the problem was that too many lurkers wanted easy mode! :) :P I know tal cries all the time when he can't play his paladin and use his "I win!" button. :) :P He just struggles and struggles with his warrior and complains about how little fun he has playing her and how much more uber his pally is. :)
He's not the only one either, all just a bunch of easy mode carebears. :)
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* Tal slaps Gnolack with a bouquet of flowers
I challenge you to a duel!
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Bob the Beholder - 05-31-2005
Bah, alliance pvp. There is no such thing. But considering my bias, playing alliance on a pvp server would feel about as right as punching babies and then laughing. It'd be like evil decided to take physical shape in front of me, and it looked like a night elf rogue.
Of course, I share a similar point of view concerning horde pve. What's the point of playing horde when you aren't ringed by merciless, uncaring enemies at all times?
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Kevin - 05-31-2005
Bob the Beholder,May 31 2005, 11:20 AM Wrote:Of course, I share a similar point of view concerning horde pve. What's the point of playing horde when you aren't ringed by merciless, uncaring enemies at all times?
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See you nailed it. Let's ignore the the undead here since the devs said they were only part of the horde for convience. The Alliance is merciless and uncaring. The Tauren took in and aided a wander lost group with the Orcs. The Orcs are trying to give some honor to the trolls so they aren't just savage tribal canibal groups anymore. Much of the horde is simply trying to break the shackles the Burning Legion had them under when they were forced to invade Azeroth.
The Night Elfs do whatever they want to do and think is right and have sundered the world for it. The Archdruid is the biggest ass in the game, yet even the NE who don't really like him that much just go, yep, he's our leader we'll do it anyway. They don't really want to deal with the humans, dwarves and Gnomes anyway. They want to be back on their lofty perch doing whatever they please again while claiming they care for nature. :)
The gnomes just keep tinkering around and nearly wiped out their whole population and caused misery to countless others. Then they go and foist themselves on the dwarves who have troubles of their own.
Humans just co-opt anyone they can and subvert them to their culture while just trying to wipe out anyone else who doesn't share their world view. :)
Alliance want to be pretty, horde just want to live and work with what they find. :)
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - swirly - 05-31-2005
I have a theory that nightelves are the evilest race in the game. Just look at wisps. Here you have the ghosts of dead nightelves (as opposed to the ghosts of live nightelves? o.O) which (from earlier games) are used for building and supply gathering! Now tell me, what is more evil than putting your own dead to work doing menial labor!
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Darian - 05-31-2005
swirly,May 31 2005, 01:23 PM Wrote:I have a theory that nightelves are the evilest race in the game. Just look at wisps. Here you have the ghosts of dead nightelves (as opposed to the ghosts of live nightelves? o.O) which (from earlier games) are used for building and supply gathering! Now tell me, what is more evil than putting your own dead to work doing menial labor!
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Making mindless sumo wrestlers out of PIECES of your own dead to guard the city gates!
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Lissa - 05-31-2005
Darian,May 31 2005, 10:36 AM Wrote:Making mindless sumo wrestlers out of PIECES of your own dead to guard the city gates!
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Or making the ghouls gather firewood...
Or sending a legion of undead to Ashenvale to gather a weed for your leader because of vanity, oh yes...everyday for Sylvanus is a bad hair day after becoming a banshee...So Varamathras finally ordered some undead out to Ashenvale to gather stuff for a magical ritual to restore Sylvanus' hair...there's evil for you...
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - MongoJerry - 05-31-2005
Tal,May 31 2005, 08:20 AM Wrote:I probably would have as well.
Well, jeez! I just did Horde, because the Amazon Basin was doing horde with their PvP, and I figured we could hook up with them and use them as a resource. If enough people want to play alliance PvP, I would be fine with that. Let's pick a server and start forming up!
Or, hey, what about playing on a role-playing server? We never hear any discussions about that here. Is there any interest in that?
Neriad is leaving the Lurking Loungers - Occhidiangela - 05-31-2005
MongoJerry,May 31 2005, 02:22 PM Wrote:Or, hey, what about playing on a role-playing server? We never hear any discussions about that here. Is there any interest in that?
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Based on the amount of discussion . . . probably not. :D
Occhi