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Something has gotten me angry - Nystul - 07-20-2009
An interesting thing happened Sunday afternoon. Someone slipped a piece of paper under my apartment door. This paper was a notice, stating that due to the economic climate, the community would stop providing the amenity of free trash collection, and charge $5 per apartment for dumpster service, to paid as an addition to the rent. Lucky for me, it coincides closely with the start of a 12 month lease renewal I had just signed 2 months ago (with no mention of any such changes in policy, written or verbal), so I will be paying in total $60 more than I negotiated for.
My feeling is that the decision is not a change in services, but a change in marketing. The dumpsters aren't going anywhere. The landlord wishes to advertise lower prices in a competitive market, and making the trash a $5 fee allows to advertise a $5 lower minimum rent. That's a type of game I am accustomed to dealing with, if I were going there to sign a lease today and the fee was in writing. Having it added to my rent after the fact does not sit well at all. The landlord will not negotiate with me on this, because the policy affects hundreds or possibly thousands of housing units (BIG landlord). You figure that on average, existing tenants will be looking at a total of $30 in increased rent, so even the ones who can speak English and also feel the same way I do, probably wouldn't be bothered to do much about it.
I won't ask for legal opinions here or get into the specific wording of my lease, although if someone wants to say this type of thing is completely normal and reasonable feel free. I'm more interested in the aspect of what you would do if you thought you were absolutely in the right on this for all of $60. I tied up the landlord's agent for about 30 minutes today and he had to call their lawyer to find which lease clause gives them the right to do this because he was not able to figure it out himself. I gave him a pretty good tongue lashing by my standards. That's a bigger stand than I usually take already. But now what?
I could let it slide, take up shadow boxing, and try not to let it affect my future business decisions too much (after all, only $60).
I could let it slide, and take grim satisfaction in telling them how stupid this move was when I end up terminating the lease in about a year.
I could make some more trips to the leasing office and try to yell the word STEALING at times when someone may be thinking of applying for an apartment, although that might be a bit petty. :lol:
Are there any consumer advocacy groups that are interested in landlord-tenant disputes?
There's always small claims court, although it would be more trouble than it's worth.
Or a class action lawsuit. :shuriken:
And I can only imagine what Doc would do in a case like this! :ph34r:
Maybe ranting about it on random internet forums will help.
Something has gotten me angry - kandrathe - 07-20-2009
Quote:Maybe ranting about it on random internet forums will help.This happened to me way back when... Although rather than just after signing, it was when I gave my notice that I was moving out that the landlord then informed me verbally that he was raising the charges for services (heat, trash, etc.) retroactively for the past six months with my net shortage being about the same as my damage deposit ($500). I'm sure he had just received the bill and had calculated that he was going to be losing money and forgot to prepare for the future very well. I think this is the case with your land lord. He figured out that the per unit price he was using for trash was $5 too low, so now he is making up a story to cover his costs. In my case, I was a student at the University, so I went to the student legal services department and consulted with a lawyer for free. I then filed a small claim (which in MN allows me to sue for my damage deposit plus two months of rent @ $1000), and he counter sued for the damage deposit and then tacked on every nick and dent in the apartment. The net result is that after we presented our two sides, the judge told us to go in the hall and talk, where he agreed to give me my $500 back. So the case was dropped, and we settled out of court.
Something has gotten me angry - LennyLen - 07-21-2009
Quote:Are there any consumer advocacy groups that are interested in landlord-tenant disputes?I would tell you to go to the Tenancy Tribunal, but I don't think they care too much about American tenancy issues.:P
Something has gotten me angry - Occhidiangela - 07-21-2009
Quote:But now what?Recommendation:
I could let it slide, take up shadow boxing, and try not to let it affect my future business decisions too much (after all, only $60).
I could let it slide, and take grim satisfaction in telling them how stupid this move was when I end up terminating the lease in about a year.
I could make some more trips to the leasing office and try to yell the word STEALING at times when someone may be thinking of applying for an apartment, although that might be a bit petty. :lol:
Are there any consumer advocacy groups that are interested in landlord-tenant disputes?
There's always small claims court, although it would be more trouble than it's worth.
Or a class action lawsuit. :shuriken:
And I can only imagine what Doc would do in a case like this! :ph34r:
Maybe ranting about it on random internet forums will help.
1. Class action. This means bringing your sales talents to all of his leasees.
2. Bring Doc in, if he's up for travel, just to put the wind up the bastidges.
Or, if you don't mind being butt jammed, just buy some Vaseline.
Occhi
Something has gotten me angry - eppie - 07-21-2009
Quote:An interesting thing happened Sunday afternoon. Someone slipped a piece of paper under my apartment door. This paper was a notice, stating that due to the economic climate, the community would stop providing the amenity of free trash collection, and charge $5 per apartment for dumpster service, to paid as an addition to the rent. Lucky for me, it coincides closely with the start of a 12 month lease renewal I had just signed 2 months ago (with no mention of any such changes in policy, written or verbal), so I will be paying in total $60 more than I negotiated for.
Maybe ranting about it on random internet forums will help.
I have been renting several appartments in several countries the last few years and have also rented out my own appartment during that time.
The thing here is that the community decides to ask for more money. In many countries, these tyoe of taxes are paid by the tennant, not the landlord. If so it would be easier for the landlord (because he deosn't have to ask you for more money, the community will).
On the other hand, it depends what is written in your contract, (I know you are not waiting for legal comments but it is what counts) if he is allowed to raise rent if community charges go up, it seems fair. If he isn't I guess you can try and do something about it.
Further are there tennancy rules in the US? I know that in Holland eg. on long term contracts rent can be increased once a year, and then only by a certain amount max (a few % I believe). In other words if you have a permanent renting agreement (no fixed end date) the rent will likely increase a bit every year.
Something has gotten me angry - Kevin - 07-21-2009
Quote:Further are there tennancy rules in the US? I know that in Holland eg. on long term contracts rent can be increased once a year, and then only by a certain amount max (a few % I believe). In other words if you have a permanent renting agreement (no fixed end date) the rent will likely increase a bit every year.
Varies from state to state, but there are laws. Typically it's only once a year, or end of lease, but I know that in Missouri it's much easier for them to raise the rent on you than it is in Florida.
Something has gotten me angry - Nystul - 07-21-2009
This is a one year lease renewal. Coincidentally, the one year lease hasn't even started yet, and will go into effect at the same time as this change I was just notified of. If they had increased my rate by $5 or added the garbage fee at the time I signed the renewal, I would have agreed and it would be no problem. Nothing was mentioned at that time, and this is apparently some spur of the moment decision. But this change is affecting every tenant regardless of where they are in their lease term.
The lease includes a clause "Landlord, where not required by law, may discontinue any facilities, amenities, gratuities or such services rendered by Landlord and furnished to several residents on a common basis, not expressly covenanted herein; it being understood that they constitute no part of the consideration for this Lease." They claim that free trash disposal was such a thing, and that they are discontinuing it. But the reality is that they are just charging for it, and it becomes a mandatory fee that I have not agreed to. Whether legal or not, it is a breech of trust from my point of view.
Something has gotten me angry - Nystul - 07-21-2009
Quote:This happened to me way back when... Although rather than just after signing, it was when I gave my notice that I was moving out that the landlord then informed me verbally that he was raising the charges for services (heat, trash, etc.) retroactively for the past six months with my net shortage being about the same as my damage deposit ($500). I'm sure he had just received the bill and had calculated that he was going to be losing money and forgot to prepare for the future very well. I think this is the case with your land lord. He figured out that the per unit price he was using for trash was $5 too low, so now he is making up a story to cover his costs. In my case, I was a student at the University, so I went to the student legal services department and consulted with a lawyer for free. I then filed a small claim (which in MN allows me to sue for my damage deposit plus two months of rent @ $1000), and he counter sued for the damage deposit and then tacked on every nick and dent in the apartment. The net result is that after we presented our two sides, the judge told us to go in the hall and talk, where he agreed to give me my $500 back. So the case was dropped, and we settled out of court.
Just a few years ago, this type of thing was making news in Columbus, going on off campus near Ohio State. Some vague lease term allows landlord to increase charges for excessively utility uses, and then the landlord doesn't say anything about it on a monthly basis and suddenly at the end of the year they want 6 or 8 months worth of increased utility fees. College kids are inexperienced tenants, and they aren't going to stay in one apartment for more than a year or two in most cases, so it is an ideal position to try to pull some shady dealings. College kids would also be a nightmare to deal with themselves, but that's another thread.
Well, if it were $500, I'd probably have talked to a lawyer already.
Something has gotten me angry - Concillian - 07-21-2009
Quote:The lease includes a clause "Landlord, where not required by law, may discontinue any facilities, amenities, gratuities or such services rendered by Landlord and furnished to several residents on a common basis, not expressly covenanted herein; it being understood that they constitute no part of the consideration for this Lease." They claim that free trash disposal was such a thing, and that they are discontinuing it. But the reality is that they are just charging for it, and it becomes a mandatory fee that I have not agreed to. Whether legal or not, it is a breech of trust from my point of view.
Ask to see a copy of the garbage bill. I bet it's more than #of units x $5. Only if it isn't can you really make any kind of legal case.
A breech of trust... maybe, but a landlord that big sees enough cases where the tenant trashes a place that he grows pretty cynical pretty fast. He likely already feels there isn't much trust there in the first place, so probably has few issues crapping on what trust there is. One guy jumping up and down yelling about $60 a year isn't going to phase him, only legitimate legal action will... in my opinion.
Something has gotten me angry - kandrathe - 07-21-2009
Quote:College kids would also be a nightmare to deal with themselves, but that's another thread.It was a unique situation. It started as three guys who both worked full time, and also attended college. We decided to rent a 3 bedroom 3 bath 3 story condo unit off campus, but on a good bus route. After a year, we were three guys, plus three women in committed relationships. While three guys can live together in close proximity... add three women and no matter how tolerant one is, the dynamics no longer worked. So, we remained friends and each of us move on to smaller apartments more suitable for a couple.
Something has gotten me angry - weakwarrior - 07-27-2009
In Berkeley there is a rent board with enormous clout. I had a case (it was obvious I was in the right) and after talking to the rent board the owner came running to back off his request for more money. Of course that's Berkeley. But maybe there is something like that where you live.