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+--- Thread: Which Class for a PvP-Server? (/thread-5344.html)
Which Class for a PvP-Server? - nobbie - 11-08-2005
Europe has opened a new data center plus a new (RP-)PvP server with a fresh economy and no future (highlevel) char transfers from other realms.
I'm now playing with the idea to give this PvP server a shoot and try either an Undead Warlock (which I know quite well) or an Undead (Shadow) Priest. I'm aware of the fact that griefing is quite common due to the lack of a penalty system, so which of the two classes would be the better choice with respect to survivability if you're mostly solo underway?
If the (Shadow) Priest is the better choice, how should I spec his/her talents (up to level 60)? And, since I have little to no experience in playing a Priest, what are the best tactics and strategies for PvP?
Which Class for a PvP-Server? - Bob the Beholder - 11-08-2005
If you have mainly done PvE in the past, and just want to give PvP servers a try, at some point, stay as far away from new servers as you can. So many people will get the same idea (new economy! Starting off on an equal footing! etc.) that the low level zones will be crowded so badly that your quest spawns will likely be camped by dozens of people, and the lower contested areas will become horrible, bloody war zones as people of both factions stream into them in an attempt to level. (Or, so it was on the last new server I played on. And it stayed that way for at least a few weeks, until the majority of people going "Hey, new server's rock!" got high enough level to spread out.)
As to the choice between classes, I, personally, would go with the warlock. But that stems from my recent semi-obsession with the class, after discovering how varied and versatile they can be.
Which Class for a PvP-Server? - savaughn - 11-08-2005
nobbie,Nov 8 2005, 11:13 AM Wrote:I'm now playing with the idea to give this PvP server a shoot and try either an Undead Warlock (which I know quite well) or an Undead (Shadow) Priest. I'm aware of the fact that griefing is quite common due to the lack of a penalty system, so which of the two classes would be the better choice with respect to survivability if you're mostly solo underway?Hi Nobbie,
If the (Shadow) Priest is the better choice, how should I spec his/her talents (up to level 60)? And, since I have little to no experience in playing a Priest, what are the best tactics and strategies for PvP?
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I would have to say go with the priest. The psychic scream has been a much better escape mechanism than the various fear options that the warlocks bring to the table and that makes world PvP much more tolerable. The shadow priest and warlock end up wearing virtually identical gear, so that's a wash. The priest brings a huge battery of instant spells to the table, however, which can radically turn the tables in a world PvP encounter. Psychic scream, shield, renew, DoT, flay is a simple pattern that will keep an opponent at bay through most of your early levels.
As for talents, I recommend first getting to Mind Flay - specifically:
Spirit Tap (5), Blackout (5), Mind Flay
You can respec out of Spirit Tap as you get to the end game and stop soloing quite so much. Ultimately, you want to get to Mental Agility in the disc tree, and you want at least through silence in the shadow tree. There are trade offs after that point. In general, I have found much better results in end game PvP when not in shadow form. The flexibility of the shadow tree, plus the ability to heal makes a really stellar PvP class. That said, some folks really like the DPS. Here are two end game shadow builds:
DPS Build:
Blackout (5), ISW:P (2), Shadow Focus (3), IPsychic Scream (2), Mind Flay (1), Improved Mind Blast (4), Shadow Reach (3), Silence (1), Vampiric Embrace (1), Shadow Weaving (5), Darkness (5), Shadowform (1)
Unbreakable Will (5), IPW:S (3), IPW:F (2), Mental Agility (5)
Improved Renew (3)
Utility Build:
Blackout (5), ISW:P (2), Shadow Focus (3), IPsychic Scream (2), Mind Flay (1), Improved Mind Blast (4), Shadow Reach (3), Silence (1)
Unbreakable Will (5), IPW:S (3), IPW:F (2), Mental Agility (5), Mental Strength (5)
Improved Renew (5), Spritual Healing (5)
Which Class for a PvP-Server? - Alram - 11-08-2005
I haven't played either class in PVP. I do have a PVP rogue who likes to kill all cloth wearers. I want to say that perhaps priests have been a tougher fight, but it hasn't really been true for me. When the rogue gets the drop on a squishy, they are going down.
Which Class for a PvP-Server? - Bob the Beholder - 11-08-2005
Alram,Nov 8 2005, 11:16 PM Wrote:I haven't played either class in PVP. I do have a PVP rogue who likes to kill all cloth wearers. I want to say that perhaps priests have been a tougher fight, but it hasn't really been true for me. When the rogue gets the drop on a squishy, they are going down.
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People keep saying that, yet I keep killing rogues who get the jump on me. Two rogues once, even. And a rogue and a warlock. *shrug* More about the player than the class.
Which Class for a PvP-Server? - Rinnhart - 11-09-2005
Bob the Beholder,Nov 8 2005, 03:58 PM Wrote:People keep saying that, yet I keep killing rogues who get the jump on me. Two rogues once, even. And a rogue and a warlock. *shrug* More about the player than the class.
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While I agree that it's more the player than the class, the average rogue generally scythes through anything in a dress relatively quickly. Undead rogues have a bit of an edge with WotF. And, of course, undead priests have an edge on your average rogue with devouring plague.
I say, to nobbie, damn the casters and the rogues- roll another warrior.
Which Class for a PvP-Server? - MongoJerry - 11-09-2005
My priest does not fear rogues. Only if I'm starting at half health will I go down without seriously damaging or killing the rogue. Of course, I'm an undead priest, and Devouring Plague is a *major* equalizer against rogues. It's only MS warriors that bug the heck out of me, and when I'm shadow spec'd, I have a lot more fun with them.
Personally, I love the newness of new servers. Yes, things will be crowded, but also you don't have to deal with people with much better equipment than you. It's a wild wild west with all the opportunities that comes with it.
Between priests and warlocks, it depends on your personality. The warlock will level up quicker, because of the larger damage you'll deal. On the other hand, you'll be invited to far more instance runs if you're a priest. Obviously, I love my priest characters, but others love their warlocks. You have to decide what you like. I'll give you my all-shadow PvP build when I have more time.
Which Class for a PvP-Server? - nobbie - 11-09-2005
Thanks for the tipps so far.
Regarding new (PvP) servers and hordes of new players, I don't think it's as bad as in February anymore when EVERYTHING was new and the majority of all players could be found in the same (contested) areas. For example, yesterday, I started with an Undead Priestess for a test on the new RP-PvP server "Die Todeskrallen" in Europe, and I was very surprised to meet just 2 or 3 (!) people near the auction house and bank when I made a trip at level 5 to Orgrimmar during the late evening. That was totally different in February when WoW was launched in Europe. The population might increase significantly during the upcoming weekend, but I think it will still be rather quiet compared to the launch day.
As far as personal preferences goes, well, I know the Warlock but a change is badly needed after playing two so far :) A sturdy warrior in plate, as suggested by Rinnhart, would be a safe option (and I already have one at level 60), but as just said, I'm looking for something new, and I'm missing the (self-)healing ability of a Warrior which I consider even more cruicial in PvP than in PvE (please correct me if I'm seeing this wrong). A Druid would be nice too, but I already have two of those on the RP servers, so I guess it's the Priest now - Horde (the "underdogs") and Undead, because Tirisfal is by far my preferred starting and home location. Devouring Plague and Will of the Forsaken makes the choice even easier.
The Shadow build looks good because I plan to solo a lot, even in the end-game. The combination of a Shadow build with Engineering/Mining for the PvP tools and cash through Thorium/Arcane Crystals seems to make the most sense, or is there anything that I should go with Herbalism/Alchemy instead? I'm afraid that you loose too much of the expensive Alchemy buffs if you die a lot in PvP.
Which Class for a PvP-Server? - MongoJerry - 11-09-2005
nobbie,Nov 9 2005, 01:27 AM Wrote:The Shadow build looks good because I plan to solo a lot, even in the end-game. The combination of a Shadow build with Engineering/Mining for the PvP tools and cash through Thorium/Arcane Crystals seems to make the most sense, or is there anything that I should go with Herbalism/Alchemy instead? I'm afraid that you loose too much of the expensive Alchemy buffs if you die a lot in PvP.
Both engineering and alchemy are good choices. I happened to go alchemy with my shadow priest, because I like the limited invulnerability, invisibility, and free action potions.
Here's how I distributed my talent points for end game PvP:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classe...050232410315151
Which Class for a PvP-Server? - nobbie - 11-09-2005
MongoJerry,Nov 9 2005, 10:13 AM Wrote:Here's how I distributed my talent points for end game PvP:Can you explain why you've chosen not to maximize certain spells, i.e. why not 36 points in Shadow (max. Shadow Focus and max. Imp. Mind Blast) and just 15 points in Discipline (leave out the 3 points in Mental Strength (+6% increased Mana))?
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classe...050232410315151
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Which Class for a PvP-Server? - Hedon - 11-09-2005
A shadowpriest is probably the second best class for 1on1 PvP after the rogue.
Fear, shield combined with mindblasts, DoTs and mindflays let you churn out immense DPS, when you are fully shadow speeced. Being undead is big plus (probably the only case, where a racial "really" matters), as you will get a extra DoT with Devouring Plague. Extra DoT = More DPS.
Shadow damage gear is also wildly available (e.g. the felcloth set, which any decent tailor should be able to provide). Also it is really important to stack up on stamina (more so than even int or sprit), to avoid being one hitted by warriors or dagger rogues.
There are some things you should note however: though a shadowpriest is indeed a very strong PvP char, you will run into difficulties when fighting healing classes. As healing is more mana efficient than damage, you will run out of mana pretty fast, and a shadowpriest oom is a dead shadowpriest.
You have also to note that the shadow priest lacks any kind of AE damage. This the big difference to a mage (on the other hand a shadowpriest is much more sturdy than a mage). The lack of AE makes him a less effective in zerg situations like e.g. Alterac Valley.
So if you are looking for a great 1on1 PvP char that is not a rogue, the shadowpriest is the way to go. I had immense fun PvPing in the plaguelands when Melisandre was still shadow specced.
As talents go: invest the first five points into Mindtap, as it will reduce downtimes significantly while leveling, then go right up to Mindflay. Generally I would suggest investing all points into the shadow tree until you get shadowform, and then continue from there like you prefer.
I would have specced a little diffentley then Mongo, but as speccs go, it basically is matter of personal preference ;)
Which Class for a PvP-Server? - savaughn - 11-09-2005
nobbie,Nov 9 2005, 04:04 AM Wrote:Can you explain why you've chosen not to maximize certain spells, i.e. why not 36 points in Shadow (max. Shadow Focus and max. Imp. Mind Blast) and just 15 points in Discipline (leave out the 3 points in Mental Strength (+6% increased Mana))?That's the DPS Spec I posted only with focused casting so I can give you some feedback on it.
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The reason for the partial talents is because they're filler and better talents lie above. For example, for PvP blackout is better than Spirit Tap, so your first five points go there. Then you need 5 points before you get to Mind Flay. Of the 5 point talents, ISW:P is the best, so your first two points go there. Of what's left, 3 points in Shadow Focus are better than Shadow Affinity or Spirit Tap. This same logic explains the IMB.
4 dots in IMB mean you have a 6s wait between mind blasts. 5 dots means you have a 5.5s wait - it's really not that big a deal. Similarly, 10% less shadow resistance isn't all that stellar vs. 6%. 6% more mana means about 400 more mana points. That's another 900 hps. That's a pretty good deal. Mental Strength is really a good talent for a priest. I put IR in my list, but that's because I love Renew for PvP. :wub: YMMV.
I should mention that these are all end game PvP builds. When it comes to leveling, I would absolutely put Spirit Tap into the mix. It's pretty pointless in group play, though - even less so in PvP.
Which Class for a PvP-Server? - MongoJerry - 11-09-2005
nobbie,Nov 9 2005, 04:04 AM Wrote:Can you explain why you've chosen not to maximize certain spells, i.e. why not 36 points in Shadow (max. Shadow Focus and max. Imp. Mind Blast) and just 15 points in Discipline (leave out the 3 points in Mental Strength (+6% increased Mana))?
Savaughn's pretty much got it. Why Mental Strength? Because shadow priests are always running on fumes when it comes to mana. We don't have all the mana sources that warlocks have, so +int gear is very important to us. (Basically, I go half int and half stamina overall in my gear). An extra half second on the cooldown on Mind Blast isn't going to mean much while you're Mind Flaying anyway, and an extra 4% reduction on resists isn't going to mean as much as having extra mana.
Quote:As talents go: invest the first five points into Mindtap, as it will reduce downtimes significantly while leveling, then go right up to Mindflay. Generally I would suggest investing all points into the shadow tree until you get shadowform, and then continue from there like you prefer.
Personally, I just couldn't go so long without improved PW:Shield, so I went there first. It meant delaying everything else by eight levels, but that wasn't bothersome to me. Spirit Tap is good for leveling in the early levels when spirit is actually effective, but its effectiveness dramatically decreases the higher your level and Blackout is just way too important in PvP. You could use Spirit Tap for a while to help you level up with the expectation to respec out of it later. However, I prefered getting Blackout right away and settled for knowing I'd have to drink a little more often as I leveled up in the early stages.
Quote:You have also to note that the shadow priest lacks any kind of AE damage. This the big difference to a mage (on the other hand a shadowpriest is much more sturdy than a mage). The lack of AE makes him a less effective in zerg situations like e.g. Alterac Valley.
If you're worried about strickly damage, Mind Blast has a large range (with Shadow Reach), so you can sit back and pick off people at a distance. However, more typically, you'd mix both healing and damage together. Just because you're a shadow priest doesn't mean you can't heal. The idea is that you heal your small party subset and throw out an occational Mind Blast to finish people off. Also, in zerg situations, fear bombing can be extremely deadly in disrupting the other team. I love charging up or jumping off heights and fearing a crowd of enemies as my team charges in (behind me!).