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+--- Thread: Warlock build for a duo with a priest (/thread-5333.html)
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - Kevin - 11-11-2005
So I'm looking for ideas on a warlock build that will be in a duo with a priest most of the time.
I'm not sure I want to go AoE happy with the build since the priest is looking at going shadow so I want to try and play up the strengths.
I've got another warlock who is a demonology build and I don't think that is the best bet for this duo anyway. But if people convince me that a demonology build would be strongest I'd have no problems doing that. My current demonologist is paired with a mage and improved voidwalker has been a big help in letting us lay down AoE more safely. I'm just not seeing how the demonologist really helps with a preist that much. You'd end up playing it a lot like a hunter/healer combo it seems and I just don't know if that would the be the best way to go.
I've thought about trying to improve my DoT's as much as I can since fear kiting would be a strong strategy in some places for these two with a psychic scream around. AoE is still doable with the ability to shield so hellfire is quite usable as well.
There are choices that would lead to upping the shadow damage for both of them and that could be quite fun. Let the priest do some unloading if they want to.
Anyway I'm looking for thoughts from others on this.
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - vor_lord - 11-11-2005
Gnollguy,Nov 11 2005, 10:19 AM Wrote:Anyway I'm looking for thoughts from others on this.
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Nothing makes a shadow priest happier than Curse of Shadows, but you have to wait until L44 to get it. If you wanted to focus on shadow damage I hate to say it but MD/Ruin is an attractive match for a priest duo. There are reasons it's a cookie cutter. Octord (he's MD/Ruin) and I before I lost my shadow ways had fun together. It was entertaining for me to spam rank 1 Pain 5 times (for shadow vulnerability), add curse of shadows, and then have both of us go for big crits.
SM/Ruin would also give you good damage synergy, but you might miss the improved pet for this duo. It seems that the improved drain talents and life tap would help a lot with downtime though -- if you play like the nuke happy casters you want to be, you'll be needing mana.
As far as seeming like a hunter duo it does seem like that would be an effective way to play it. Nuke with impunity when things aren't dangerous, voidwalker tank for when they are.
Just my two cents. I always thought a fire warlock and an ice mage (assuming they've fixed Curse of Elements) would be a fun duo. No tank, use the imp, and kite.
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - Concillian - 11-11-2005
I think vor_lord is right. There's really not much else you can do without some pretty significant sacrifices.
You can go DS / SM for example, to gain imp. void for a better shield when you AoE and better tanking when you don't, but you end up giving up the lower cast time on SB, which is a significant loss. It's tough to give up SM if you will be wih a shadow priest, but if you did, you could go three tree with DS/Ruin/Life Tap + some extras in various places.
But I imagine most of your duo will be spent plowing your way through stuff with your damage.
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - TheDragoon - 11-12-2005
One idea that I think could be interesting is to go the Demonologist route with your warlock. That will give you more powerful pets and the ability to summon them more quickly and efficiently. In addition, Demonology gives ways to reduce the threat against you or increase your damage by 10%. If you could get the priest to lay off the mind blasts and use mind flay, instead, the Voidwalker or Succubus could probably do an ok job tanking for you guys.
To that end, either this or this build would be a possibility. I'm not sure this will do better than a Shadow Mastery/Ruin build for you when duoing with a Shadow Priest, but it would certainly be a more interesting and less-used road to take the Warlock.
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - Treesh - 11-12-2005
TheDragoon,Nov 12 2005, 10:09 AM Wrote:If you could get the priest to lay off the mind blasts and use mind flay, instead, the Voidwalker or Succubus could probably do an ok job tanking for you guys. But then I don't get to play tank priest! ;) :D
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Warlock build for a duo with a priest - Kevin - 11-12-2005
TheDragoon,Nov 12 2005, 10:09 AM Wrote:One idea that I think could be interesting is to go the Demonologist route with your warlock. That will give you more powerful pets and the ability to summon them more quickly and efficiently. In addition, Demonology gives ways to reduce the threat against you or increase your damage by 10%. If you could get the priest to lay off the mind blasts and use mind flay, instead, the Voidwalker or Succubus could probably do an ok job tanking for you guys.
To that end, either this or this build would be a possibility. I'm not sure this will do better than a Shadow Mastery/Ruin build for you when duoing with a Shadow Priest, but it would certainly be a more interesting and less-used road to take the Warlock.
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OK so maybe I need to change my build that is duoing with the mage because those are very similar builds to what I'm thinking about doing for him.
And yes I'm positive that voidy will be a good tank for the priest/lock duo if I improve since right now the imp voidy at L30 holds 3 to 4 mobs through Rain of Fire/Blizzard/Arcane Explosion.
But then again I like to have the mobs that are being hit by AoE tanked and not kite them which seems to be different than many other people who AoE so maybe that is the problem. :)
But since lots of people seem to suggest the demonolgy build for this duo (when I was thinking that when I wanted to AoE I had a priest to heal me so I didn't need to worry about self buffing for AoE) maybe I'm just not seeing how the game past 30-40 is going to work as well as I thought.
So if that is the case, so I don't end up with two demonology builds. What would you duo with a frost mage if you were a warlock duoing with a frost mage. :)
Edit: And I do see that the mage/lock duo would have more CC option to eliminate mobs if they wanted to blast single target stuff than the priest/lock so I can see why it could be easier for them to have the weaker tank set. But with a priest to heal if things go bad vs no healer on the lock/mage it just seems that less tanking should be needed.
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - swirly - 11-12-2005
Gnollguy,Nov 12 2005, 10:26 AM Wrote:So if that is the case, so I don't end up with two demonology builds. What would you duo with a frost mage if you were a warlock duoing with a frost mage. :)
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I'd suggest a fire build similiar to the one that I am playing (discussed in another thread). This way you can use curse of elements and both take advantage of it. Part of the team I usually play with is a frost mage and it works well for us. Your pet won't be holding much aggro because of the damage you and the mage are doing, but the mobs will be slowed and so generally die before or just as they get to you. Playing with a mage also helps with the times you just want to burn through your mana with the build in that you have a free source of drinks.
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - Concillian - 11-12-2005
Gnollguy,Nov 12 2005, 08:26 AM Wrote:So if that is the case, so I don't end up with two demonology builds. What would you duo with a frost mage if you were a warlock duoing with a frost mage. :)
Edit: And I do see that the mage/lock duo would have more CC option to eliminate mobs if they wanted to blast single target stuff than the priest/lock so I can see why it could be easier for them to have the weaker tank set. But with a priest to heal if things go bad vs no healer on the lock/mage it just seems that less tanking should be needed.
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The frost mage / warlock has much better kiting ability than a priest / 'lock for no other reason than your escape / rooting mechanisms are not diminishing those of the other.
I'd say it's easier to go full DPS with the mage, then he can kite, and you can DPS, you can fear during nova cooldown, etc...
For normal mob AoE non-improved void is fine when you have two AoEing, as your DPS is high enough to not get killed. A non-improved void will hold through one blizzard if you use his AoE 'growl' and one torment per target. This blizzard is enough time of you and him not getting damaged and damaging them, that the mage is okay getting beat on a little, he won't die. a frost nova minimizes the damage taken. He can IAE and you can hellfire without worry of drawing aggro because he is well ahead of your damage from the Blizzard, you will catch up to him with hellfire, but shouldn't catch him before mobs die. That will take things down so quickly such that taking some damage is not going to be an issue. You'll get the occasional ranged attacker that is out of range, but that's what death coil, fear and Rank 1 frostbolt are for.
With a frost mage as your partner, I think you could use any build you want pretty effectively. I think priest is a trickier duo, especially on elites. Sure you have healing available, but your escape / kiting mechanisms are not complimentary, plus there are plenty of places where fear is difficult to use safely.
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - TheDragoon - 11-12-2005
Yeah, that's what I'd do. :)
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - Kevin - 11-12-2005
Makes sense.
Of course the demonologist went that way with the frost mage simply because I wanted a demonologist. :) There wasn't a lot of planning it was just I want to do this and the mage wanted to go frost. That was that. :)
But like I said I don't really want to build two warlocks the same way. I get great joy out of building the character. I don't like to respec to try something completely different. I only really respec to tweak if I can help it. I like my alts and I can have 50 so I'm using them. :)
But without a warlock or a mage over 30 and only my experience of tanking for warlocks and mages and my personal opinion of tank things that are getting AoE'd if you have any option to do so at all to do so I went that route. :)
I know that priet mage combo and AoE even elites pretty and I figure that Voidy should still be able to hold at least one mob through the AoE (or at least most of it) to help out. But I keep forgetting Hellfire hurts you too so it's a little different for the priest to keep you up. :) I'll blame it on just getting hellfire now and still prefering to stack the weaker rain of fire with the Blizzard because that just looks cool and generally you don't need that much extra DPS since you are mixing the blizzard in with it. :)
Just more to think about for me.
So that got me thinking about a 3 tree build that does go 31 into demonology. Partly because I love improved corruption as well as improved life tap and partly because with a shadow priest around I still see shadowbolts tearing up single targets and while I won't have the super high crit chance to get those procs all the time having the chance to amp up a mind blast would still be fun. :) Plus I like the extra versatility of having the faster cast immolate and shadow bolts and getting shadowburn. That seems like a good skill to have. I give up the improved drain talents but with a priest around (even if they are shadow) I think that's a sacrifice I can make. I thought about giving up improved corruption and life tap and doing a 31/20 demonology/destruction but 7 more points in destruction over what I had didn't seem to add as much value as improved corruptoin and improved life tap would. I could be very wrong. A 31/20 demon/affliction seemed better than a 31/20 demon/destruction as well if I don't split.
So now that it looks like I'll probably be going demon and changing the other to a fire build and I've linked a build that seem to appeal to what I know I like now I'm looking for feedback on that. :)
Very likely go with Swirly's build for the fire lock with the mage and I could still put the points in voidy there as well if I wanted. So yeah that's the other question he has 5 floating points in this build. I'd be with a frost mage with that. I'm wondering about aftermath. Sure the mage would be slowing them but since that duo would be all about kiting and the more you slow the easier it is to kite. I wonder how the daze and chill stack as well. And there is improved voidy there that could be done too you get a stronger voidy shield and you get a voidy that tanks nasty single targets better and then the other two in improved healthstone (because more healing without a healer around never hurts).
Comments on that?
Edit: I've got a 3rd solo lock right now who it looks like will be my deep affliction tree build now because of tweaking the other two. :)
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - Drasca - 11-13-2005
Go affliction with intensity (if you really want to AoE), master summoning / fel conc (if you want versatility), or simple shadowburn and demonic embrace/improved healthstone (nice bits of both, but no easy aoe or quick cheap summons), for duo'ing with your priest.
Extra range, important CoEx snare (controls fear and scream better), useable drains. Suppression also greatly helps fears, curses and dots, against higher level enemies, and enables use of death coil.
MD/Ruin is for end-game 60+ PvE/AV. Doesn't come into its own without tons of +shadow damage equipment.
Instant corruption will serve your dps a lot more throughout 1-60. Improved Life tap (optional, but very nice) and Dark pact greatly reduces the daily grind (mid battle), allowing your duo to achieve longer and tougher battles than normally possible.
Until 60+, your damage chokepoint is mana (and health). Improved life tap and Dark pact mitigate this. Destruction tree isn't attractive until you late in the tree with improved immolate/emberstorm and conflagorate. Improved searing pain is so so, but you still don't have the equipment to back up the +crit. Ruin, again, is not greatly useful until you have +damage items to capitalize on it. Mana will be your damage chokepoint.
There is also the matter of pets. End-game, one point of improved firebolt (second point does not measurably reduce casting time) and 3 points of improved imp gives a 99dps chain-gun. I've used this combination before, and he's a deadly little turret while he has mana.
Go affliction. Respec somewhere else when you have 51 talent points and equipment to utilize other builds.
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - swirly - 11-13-2005
Gnollguy,Nov 12 2005, 05:39 PM Wrote:Very likely go with Swirly's build for the fire lock with the mage and I could still put the points in voidy there as well if I wanted.[right][snapback]94656[/snapback][/right]
One problem with the build (which I didn't run into since I respeced to it at 55 or so) is choosing an order for the points. Alot of the talents that specifically improve your fire skills are deep into the destruction tree. You can go straight down that tree for them, but that means skipping on Improved Corruption and Improved VW until much later. Those are two skills that are great for leveling though and so you may not want to skip them. Not skipping them means you aren't really beefing up your fire skills until your 50's. So I'm unsure what playstyle is best if you don't skip them. You may end up playing more like a different build until late in your life.
I love the build, but thinking about it....I'm not sure how it works as a build starting at 0. Of course you are respecing to the build as well. I believe you are at level 30 which would put you right on the brink of starting to improve your fire skills if you went straight destruction. One of the reasons I'm thinking straight destruction would be best is that its the quickest route to Conflagrate which helps alot for dps and mana (since you have to spam less). Getting that skill will give you most of the skills you will have in the end and so let you get a feel for how it plays as well. Even going straight for it though, you couldn't get it till 41. So I don't know, I'm just worried about how it will play in the middling levels where you are. I guess alot of that could depend on how your duo plays as well. Something for you to consider at least.
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - Kevin - 11-13-2005
swirly,Nov 12 2005, 10:45 PM Wrote:One problem with the build (which I didn't run into since I respeced to it at 55 or so) is choosing an order for the points. Alot of the talents that specifically improve your fire skills are deep into the destruction tree. You can go straight down that tree for them, but that means skipping on Improved Corruption and Improved VW until much later. Those are two skills that are great for leveling though and so you may not want to skip them. Not skipping them means you aren't really beefing up your fire skills until your 50's. So I'm unsure what playstyle is best if you don't skip them. You may end up playing more like a different build until late in your life.
I love the build, but thinking about it....I'm not sure how it works as a build starting at 0. Of course you are respecing to the build as well. I believe you are at level 30 which would put you right on the brink of starting to improve your fire skills if you went straight destruction. One of the reasons I'm thinking straight destruction would be best is that its the quickest route to Conflagrate which helps alot for dps and mana (since you have to spam less). Getting that skill will give you most of the skills you will have in the end and so let you get a feel for how it plays as well. Even going straight for it though, you couldn't get it till 41. So I don't know, I'm just worried about how it will play in the middling levels where you are. I guess alot of that could depend on how your duo plays as well. Something for you to consider at least.
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Yep. :) I have been thinking about it quite a bit too. He is 30 right now, yes, and I had improved corruption and down to one point in Master summoner. So a flop over to Destruction right now will prove interesting. But that is part of the point for me. Build the builds up. Not just picking a build and changing to it. :)
Lack of improved corruption will be interesting because I do think I'm going to just drive down the tree and see how it goes. The mage is fine with playing kiting monkey since we really didn't kite much at all up to that point because voidy could tank everything for us. :) Just give him a little time and do a little focus fire on the first mob he went in on, DoT everything as I switch to it for him to get the torment on, start the AoE, hit the AoE taunt and laugh as it all dies and if voidy lost anything, and you change targets with voidy as soon as you see torment go to help prevent this, it would be dead before it could touch us thanks to the slowing effect of blizzard. Voidy won't stand up like that anymore and won't taunt as well now though so we'll see how it goes. :)
I'll have fun either way. If I'm gimped over what I could be, oh well. :)
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - Bob the Beholder - 11-13-2005
Gnollguy,Nov 12 2005, 11:39 PM Wrote:Just more to think about for me.
So that got me thinking about a 3 tree build that does go 31 into demonology. Partly because I love improved corruption as well as improved life tap and partly because with a shadow priest around I still see shadowbolts tearing up single targets and while I won't have the super high crit chance to get those procs all the time having the chance to amp up a mind blast would still be fun. :) Plus I like the extra versatility of having the faster cast immolate and shadow bolts and getting shadowburn. That seems like a good skill to have. I give up the improved drain talents but with a priest around (even if they are shadow) I think that's a sacrifice I can make. I thought about giving up improved corruption and life tap and doing a 31/20 demonology/destruction but 7 more points in destruction over what I had didn't seem to add as much value as improved corruptoin and improved life tap would. I could be very wrong. A 31/20 demon/affliction seemed better than a 31/20 demon/destruction as well if I don't split. [right][snapback]94656[/snapback][/right]
That build right there is one of the biggest possibilities I've come up with for my warlock, once I hit end-game. It seems quite versatile, with the ability to survive a long time, do lots of crazy damage, etc., depending on what pet I've got out--and it even provides a way to switch pets on the fly, every 15 minutes. Increased versatility with Demonic Sacrifice, giving each pet two different ways to benefit me, from that and MD, as opposed to just their normal abilities. And including Bane/Shadowburn, and up through Improved Lifetap, which are skills I suppose I could do without, but really, really don't want to. I've gotten a friend of mine--who hit 60 last night, finally--to try it out for a while, and he's loving the hell out of it.
The one other option I'm thinking of being a Conflagrate build, for PvP. I'd be missing out on some SB-spam damage in PvE, but really not much, since I'll be going out of my way to get a shadow damage gear set for that anyway. And it includes Ruin, Destructive Reach and Intensity. Which really aren't TOO big, I guess, but, like some other things (Improved Lifetap being one, for some reason), I just really like having them around, even if I know the points may be better spent. (Although, I do admit, that I've played around on my friend's high level warlock a bit with varying builds, consulted several warlocks, and thought it out on my own, and have decided that Dark Pact and Soul Link are superior to Ruin. Buuuuuut... in a Conflagrate build... Ruin is on the way there, and, hey, I really can't complain about that.)
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - redinter - 11-13-2005
I agree with Drasca, to duo with a priest, a heavy affliction build is a good way to go. You will likely draintank your way through the lower levels. Thats the way I went with my lock, while leveling him up, I duoed a lot with a priest and it went really smooth, almost no cooldown and we could easily take mobs above our level, even elite ones. the possibility to draintank, gives you the ability to tank some mobs, while using succubus or imp for extra dps. Dark pact wil help immensely, to keep the cooldown almost at 0, even if the priest goes oom, you can then kill a few until his mana is back up.
Instant DoTs and fearkiting will help you kill that hard hitting elite mob.
This build would be a nice affliction one, while spreading a bit over the first talents of the other trees. Swap suppresion for CoEx, if you are on a pvp server, I personally dont find much use on CoEx on PvE. Remember when you fear kite mobs, that the priest will probably slow them down, or just keep the leash area clear of adds.(When fearing, the mobs will neve go farther away than a specific radius around you, I don't know exactly how big it is, but seems to be around 40y.)
Warlock build for a duo with a priest - RTM - 11-13-2005
Will this be a shadow priest you're duoing with? Because I happened to group with a paladin & shadow priest last night to take down some elite ogres in Alterac, and I must say that with all my life-draining skills + Vampiric Embrace, my health hardly dipped below 80% even when I drew aggro. We even had a bad pull of 6+ ogres and came out on top suprisingly easily. To take advantage of that I'd suggest going affliction to Shadow Mastery- the priest could probably stay in shadowform the entire time and heal through Vampiric Embrace.
Levelling seems to be easier via Affliction talents as well, so it would serve you well until you're high enough to use those talents.