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Frost mage! - swirly - 12-09-2005
So I've started a frost mage on a server that a friend plays on. My friend is playing an arcane mage with me. Most things will probably be done with that pairing. I'm debating how to build my character and so figure I'll post my thoughts here. I'm listing things in the order I plan on getting them as well.
Improved Frostbolt rank 5/5
My main skill so improving is good.
Winter's Chill rank 3/3
When I have soloed, I kite mobs and this helps that alot. It also would seem good while with my friend's mage because it keeps mobs off us longer and so gives us more time to sheep any adds or just to kill things before they get to us.
Improved Frost Nova rank 2/2
Another way to keep things off of me/us. Possibly not as useful with two mages since we have two novas anyway. Its a prereq for a later talent though.
Piercing Ice rank 3/3
More damage is good is the basic thought here.
Ice Shards rank 5/5
Yet again, more damage is good.
Arctic Reach rank 2/2
Helps me get off a frost bolt before my friend's mage attacks. Since arcane missles are channeled and my friend and I also start shooting at the same time...the mobs start running before I hit them. This should help with that some.
Shatter rank 5/5
With two mages with novas and the talents I'm getting this should add more damage. Might not do so much in instances, but with two mages we should have two sheeps (where there are enough humans) and so with that much control it shouldn't matter too much if some talents are a lil wasteful.
Improved Blizzard rank 3/3
Friend should have improved arcane explosion so AOE is mostly covered there. I figure I can throw a blizzard while she does that and then maybe she can use that to keep them off her more or something.
Frostbite rank 5/5
Works with shatter for more damage and helps keep mobs ranged.
Ice Block rank 1/1
Way to avoid dieing if things are beating on me. If they are on me then that means my friend can attack them freely. So hopefully she can finish them off before the block goes down.
Ice Barrier rank 1/1
Same reasons as ice block, plus gives me the ability to attack without being interupted if I need it sometime.
Cold Snap rank 1/1
Emergency measures..for when things go bad and I need to do something now.
Impact rank 5/5
A chance for my Fire Blast to stun. I plan on throwing fire blasts whenever they are available as extra damage.
Improved Fire Blast rank 5/5
More damage for fire blast.
Flame Throwing rank 2/2
Helps me be able to through a fire blast sooner and thus let it come back available sooner to be thrown again.
Incinerate rank 2/2
Damage for fire blast again.
Frost Channeling rank 1/3
Spare point at the end so figure there are worst things than saving a lil mana.
So thats the build I am thinking. You can see it in the talent calculater here. I debated going with less in frost and none in fire so as to get some arcane. Debated 15 for explosion, 21 for PoM, 28 for instability, and various other options. In the end I decided that none of them felt right and so am thinking about going this way. So tell me what you all think about the idea.
Frost mage! - Kevin - 12-09-2005
You may want to get improved Blizzard earlier. I've actually started to use it to kite and kill multiple mobs at once with my little L31 frost mage. I've seen L60's use it great effect too. I also don't have winter's chill would would make Blizzard kiting even more powerful as you would get even more channeling in before you have to break it.
Though in your case the AE mage will most likely have aggro but I'm still seeing them run around the blizzard of all these slow mobs.
Frost mage! - Pantalaimon - 12-09-2005
swirly,Dec 8 2005, 09:53 PM Wrote:Arctic Reach rank 2/2
Helps me get off a frost bolt before my friend's mage attacks. Since arcane missles are channeled and my friend and I also start shooting at the same time...the mobs start running before I hit them. This should help with that some.
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Just a thought, probably in the best interests of both of you for her to let you pull, since AM is channeled as you said she doesn't really lose anything by letting you pull.
Other than that, have fun! Be interesting to see a mage with no arcane talents :P
Frost mage! - Rinnhart - 12-09-2005
Pantalaimon,Dec 8 2005, 11:15 PM Wrote:Just a thought, probably in the best interests of both of you for her to let you pull, since AM is channeled as you said she doesn't really lose anything by letting you pull.
Kinda moot, I assume the arcane heavy mage has iAM- no lost channeling.
Quote:Other than that, have fun! Be interesting to see a mage with no arcane talents :P
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There's a reason most people go arcane + frost or fire. You lose ALOT of utility for slightly more damage (there are only so many spells you can cast).
Frost mage! - Xame - 12-09-2005
A few personal opinions from playing with my build on the test server as an ice mage and other tests. As an ice mage you stand much closer to your target. You typically don't try to squeeze in the extra spell cast. Thus it is frost bolt, fire blast, nova (escape). Repeat with kiting, (I like to mix in a cone of cold and a blink for fun when dropping elites to take zero damage).
Thus, I would consider moving Flame Throwing to Ignite, since extra damage is always good and the extra range in fire isn't where you will be casting from. As a fire mage I use Cone of Cold quite often since it is an instant cast with a chill effect. It is also the way you solo two mobs (both as a fire or ice mage). Consider it a frost nova replacement while the frost nova cool down is still running (along with blink as your 3rd escape). I would definately move some points into Improved CoC since you will casting it every fight.
Things that I've never used (rarely used) are Artic reach (I stand well within the frost bolt range when I start a fight, no temptation to try to squeeze in one more cast), Cold Snap (you die because you run out of mana or pulled to many mobs, a free Ice Barrier won't save your life) and frost channeling (the frost line is already mana trifty, it might let you swap some int for stam but you really should try not to get hit in the first place, it's a pvp server consideration).
For gear for both yourself and your friend, I would go with gear that generates a 2:1 mana to health ratio for PvE. 5:3 for PvP questing with some damage specs. And 5:4 for battlegrounds or very dangrous PvP areas with lots of +dmg numbers. The PvP numbers are somewhat style based, but I found it hard to dump my mana to damage before a real life player found a way to beat the life out of me. Thus in pvp you need to stay alive long enough to kill them and stam is the only thing you have that works against all forms of attack (dot, fear, stun etc.).
From a dual mage questing persective, the arcane mage will pull agro no matter what you do. The AMs generate more damage/sec then any other spell you have until you get some +dmg to frost spell gear. I've found that the mage is designed to drop any mob at level with pure AM (no other spells and poor gear) with zero kiting. All the rest of the tricks in the spell box are for droping multiple mobs and elite/instance questing (you won't have enough mana to run AM constantly or you will be drinking after every fight).
Also a rule of thumb for soloing is 1pt of mana = 1pt of damage in Arcane, 1pt of mana = 2pts of damge for fire and 1pt of mana = 3pts of damage for frost. My rational for this is that a Arcane and Fire mage needs to spend mana for mob "control" and the ice mage gets this for free. The difference in the fire and arcane builds is that the fire mage gets talent points to increase the fire damage but the arcane mage is stuck with the base damage (his talents are to deliever the damage faster).
Hope this helps. I've wanted to do a pure ice mage but the loss of arcane would hurt the party too much. It would be nice to generate the completementing arcane and frost in two seperate players without the compromises. With more rich builds in both arcane and the frost trees like you and your friend are doing, it should be a lot of fun.
Frost mage! - Brista - 12-09-2005
I suspect the Arcane mage having threat on a large zerg of mobs with you cc-ing them with Improved Blizzard and Frost Novas while he IAEs them to death will be your most efficient PvE levelling technique. Or you could both take IAE and Cold Snap
Frost mage! - Alram - 12-09-2005
My level 60 frost mage's frost talents spec, with 2 talent points unassigned as yet:
Improved Frostbolt rank 5/5
Winter's Chill rank 3/3
Improved Frost Nova rank 2/2
Ice Shards rank 5/5
Arctic Reach rank 1/2--2/2 is good though
Piercing Ice rank 2/3--3/3 is good though
Shatter rank 5/5
Improved Blizzard rank 3/3
Frostbite rank 5/5--Because of this talent and shatter I kill with frost bolts only not infrequently.
Iceblock
Ice Barrier rank 1/1--I do not like this talent. If and when I respec, I will get rid of it. Either you don't need the barrier and everything is fine, or when you do need it, it is inadequate to rely on. Big bad level 60 mobs hit hard, and ice barrier won't help you much. Don't bother with it.
I don't have Cold Snap. The only spell you need it for is frost nova; it could be useful in an emergency. I'd skip it if you have some fire talent you really need the point for.
Frost mage! - Treesh - 12-09-2005
Alram,Dec 9 2005, 11:42 AM Wrote:IceblockWith only one level 60 priest in the guild, barrier is going to keep your butt alive when you are being main healed by a shaman. Even when I'm on Aleri and have multiple mages to keep alive in raids, I have had to ask what mages have ice barrier and what ones don't so I can alternate shielding priorities. One fight I'll have a mage barrier himself/herself so I can shield the mages and warlocks that don't have that option and the next fight since barrier will probably be in cooldown, they get the shields too. It lasts long enough to keep the mages upright. As a healer, especially one that cannot shield, I love all mages that have this and know when to use it. There were some early raids where Aleri was the only priest for 4-5 AoEing mages/warlocks and couldn't possibly hit all of them with shields without completely sucking down my mana and do it before the fight started so I wouldn't draw early aggro from shielding folks. Ice barrier really helped out on that.
Ice Barrier rank 1/1--I do not like this talent. If and when I respec, I will get rid of it. Either you don't need the barrier and everything is fine, or when you do need it, it is inadequate to rely on. Big bad level 60 mobs hit hard, and ice barrier won't help you much. Don't bother with it.
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Frost mage! - Kevin - 12-09-2005
Alram,Dec 9 2005, 11:42 AM Wrote:My level 60 frost mage's frost talents spec, with 2 talent points unassigned as yet:
Improved Frostbolt rank 5/5
Winter's Chill rank 3/3
Improved Frost Nova rank 2/2
Ice Shards rank 5/5
Arctic Reach rank 1/2--2/2 is good though
Piercing Ice rank 2/3--3/3 is good though
Shatter rank 5/5
Improved Blizzard rank 3/3
Frostbite rank 5/5--Because of this talent and shatter I kill with frost bolts only not infrequently.
Iceblock
Ice Barrier rank 1/1--I do not like this talent. If and when I respec, I will get rid of it. Either you don't need the barrier and everything is fine, or when you do need it, it is inadequate to rely on. Big bad level 60 mobs hit hard, and ice barrier won't help you much. Don't bother with it.
I don't have Cold Snap. The only spell you need it for is frost nova; it could be useful in an emergency. I'd skip it if you have some fire talent you really need the point for.
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Cold snap has been wonderful for me for leveling. Sure I pretty much only use it with frost nova, but I hate to die and it has saved my life. Maybe that is because my kiting skills weren't good enough or because I simply wasn't paying enough attention to the pull, but I've found that I like my "oh #$%&" buttons and that is what this is. I've even used it in an instance to get some massive CC on several melee mobs when pulls or runners have made things go bad.
If you have a druid main healer or a shaman main healer they will love you for ice barrier. Power word shiled 942 damage absorbed. Ice barrier 818 damage absorbed. They are very similar spells and most mages love the preshield for AoE. Mages who ice barrier then get a shield when that goes down can do quite a bit of damage without taking a single point. But I know that if a priest isn't around and I'm healing I'm so happy to see ice barrier go up in AoE situations.
I've also seen it used just a like a priest uses a shield, buying the healer enough time to keep you alive. For me it is way too much utility to give up. Ice block, the prereq is the one that I see as simply buying you more time before the inevitable.
Frost mage! - Concillian - 12-09-2005
Treesh,Dec 9 2005, 09:04 AM Wrote:With only one level 60 priest in the guild...
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:blink:
I have one too, I just haven't played him much because then we'd have 'only one level 60 warrior in the guild' ;)
Frost mage! - The Gnu - 12-09-2005
swirly,Dec 9 2005, 04:53 AM Wrote:Ice Block rank 1/1
Way to avoid dieing if things are beating on me. If they are on me then that means my friend can attack them freely. So hopefully she can finish them off before the block goes down.
Just a tiny nitpick. Ice block completly shreds your aggro for the period of time you have it up, which would cause all mobs to jump on your friend.
Still one of the best mage skills IMO. :)
Frost mage! - Treesh - 12-09-2005
Concillian,Dec 9 2005, 12:46 PM Wrote::blink:Sorry Conc. I completely forgot about your priest. You are inextricably linked to Tauren in my mind now and Tauren can't be priests. ;)
I have one too, I just haven't played him much because then we'd have 'only one level 60 warrior in the guild' ;)
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I also see you haven't cloned yourself as ordered to yet. Better work on that. ;)
Frost mage! - Alram - 12-09-2005
Treesh,Dec 9 2005, 12:04 PM Wrote:With only one level 60 priest in the guild, barrier is going to keep your butt alive when you are being main healed by a shaman. Even when I'm on Aleri and have multiple mages to keep alive in raids, I have had to ask what mages have ice barrier and what ones don't so I can alternate shielding priorities. One fight I'll have a mage barrier himself/herself so I can shield the mages and warlocks that don't have that option and the next fight since barrier will probably be in cooldown, they get the shields too. It lasts long enough to keep the mages upright. As a healer, especially one that cannot shield, I love all mages that have this and know when to use it. There were some early raids where Aleri was the only priest for 4-5 AoEing mages/warlocks and couldn't possibly hit all of them with shields without completely sucking down my mana and do it before the fight started so I wouldn't draw early aggro from shielding folks. Ice barrier really helped out on that.I totally see your point.
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Frost mage! - Concillian - 12-09-2005
Treesh,Dec 9 2005, 09:54 AM Wrote:I also see you haven't cloned yourself as ordered to yet. Better work on that. ;)
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Sorry, I couldn't get the DNA sequencing right. One attempt I got my dad, and the thought that popped into my head was that I might get my mom on the next attempt. That thought was just too scary, and I had to stop all work on the whole cloning thing altogether.
:(
Frost mage! - Frag - 12-09-2005
Above and beyond all that about Ice Block, it's also the greatest way to pull in MC. Nothing like seeing a mage charge out in front of Sulferon or Golemagg, jump into the air, they all target her and BAM! Solid Ice. They stand around confused while the hunters peel off the mobs to their assigned warriors and everyone goes on their merry way. :D
~Frag
Frost mage! - Kevin - 12-09-2005
Frag,Dec 9 2005, 05:00 PM Wrote:Above and beyond all that about Ice Block, it's also the greatest way to pull in MC. Nothing like seeing a mage charge out in front of Sulferon or Golemagg, jump into the air, they all target her and BAM! Solid Ice. They stand around confused while the hunters peel off the mobs to their assigned warriors and everyone goes on their merry way. :D
~Frag
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I was wondering if that is how horde did it. Alliance generally just uses a paladin with a bubble.
Frost mage! - Bob the Beholder - 12-09-2005
Gnollguy,Dec 9 2005, 10:19 PM Wrote:I was wondering if that is how horde did it. Alliance generally just uses a paladin with a bubble.
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Yeah, that's what my guild does.
Frost mage! - Frag - 12-10-2005
Gnollguy,Dec 9 2005, 05:19 PM Wrote:I was wondering if that is how horde did it. Alliance generally just uses a paladin with a bubble.
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Gah, nerf pallies! :D :P :shuriken:
~Frag
Frost mage! - Kevin - 12-10-2005
Frag,Dec 10 2005, 01:24 AM Wrote:Gah, nerf pallies! :D :P :shuriken:
~Frag
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Haven't you read about 1.9? They did. :) :P
Frost mage! - Frag - 12-10-2005
Gnollguy,Dec 10 2005, 01:35 AM Wrote:Haven't you read about 1.9? They did. :) :P
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Oh whew... Glad to hear Uncle Blizzard didn't forget Christmas last year!
Quote:Imagine nine bright-eyed children (well seven, the Warlock and Hunter look rather sickly and gaunt) waiting eagerly around the Christmas tree to open their present. Their Great Uncle Blizzard begins to pass out the bright packages, and the children eagerly tear them open.
The Paladin, who had desperately wished for a pony all year opens his massive and conspicuously shaped package to find....a dead pony. Now substitute DPS for pony and you get the idea. He runs off to weep in the corner, telling himself over and over that its just Uncle Blizzard's old hearing problem.
The Druid opens her package to find a note saying that her shapeshift ability now cures cancer! Overjoyed, she prances off morphing all the while, content in the knowledge that her shifting has already dispelled magic, broken stuns, slowing effects, and polymorph, balanced the budget, brought peace to the Middle East, and defied the odds by convincing a jury to find Michael Jackson innocent.
The Warrior hacks at the package with his arcanite reaper, critting it for twenty million. Inside, he finds a note saying that sneezing, talking, walking, running, flying, using the Auction House, and breathing in general all generate rage. He laughs, builds up a full rage bar in two seconds, then beats up an old lady for fun.
The Priest takes his turn, crossing his fingers in hopes of a a Holy Tree buff, or perhaps a revamp of spirit utilization. Instead he finds a bright "New and Improved!" shadow skill tree. "What the #$%&, if I wanted to do this I would have rolled mage! I'm a healer not a...". At this point, his cries are drowned out by millions of voices screaming "OMGWTFBBQ LURN 2 PLAY UR CLASS NOOB SHADOW PRIESTS R TEH ROXXORS"
The Mage goes next, and finds a scram jet coupled with an ability to give mages 100% increased mana regeneration if they put a vowel in their character name. Happily, the mage places the scram jet with his other "I'm impossible to catch" abilities including blink, nova, polymorph and frost spells in general. He places the new regeneration spell alongside evocation, conjure water, conjure mana gem, and mage armor, mumbling that he still doesn't get his 8000 mana back quick enough.
It's now the Rogues turn. He sneaks up behind the box to catch it unaware, too stupid to know that the box is an inanimate object. What he pulls out, we have no clue, since all we can see is the spam of his "ZOMG NOOOB REROLL PVE I PWND U" macro. This spam is occassionaly interrupted by "shut up, ill duel you when my timers are back up".
The Hunter doesn't even have a package. Instead, Uncle Blizzard just hands him a note saying, "We believe that the concerns you've raised are invalid, despite the fact that you've shown us data proving the contrary. We believe your class is working as intended. However, we're going to humor you and study your concerns as best we can, and we promise that a future patch will implement certain changes to your class. P.S. By future we mean when carbon-based life ceases to exist, so redeem the gift certificate on the back of this note at Eddie's Gun Shop and just end it the easy way."
The Warlock is almost bursting with excitement. Uncle Blizzard had hinted for weeks that his present would be the best ever, and thus he tears open the package with demonic fervor. He sees a box full of bright shiny things, but realization suddenly dawns on him. "Hey, wait a second, this is all my old #%@$ repainted. I still can't pvp or be useful in most instances, what kind of joke is this?" Uncle Blizzard however, is too busy gaping at the succubus' cleavage to notice.
At last, all eyes descend upon the Shaman. Uncle Blizzard strides over and hands him the package. They hug and begin to fondle each other in a manner hardly befitting a nephew and uncle. As the Shaman begins to remove the wrapping paper, triumphant music and choruses of angels are heard in the distance. A light (with a slight blue tinge, I might add) breaks through from the sky and shines upon the young Shaman. A deep, ominous voice rumbles among the clouds, "This is my son, whom I have well buffed." The wrapping paper falls away to reveal a brand new macro that lets the Shaman do solo Molten Core runs at the push of a button! As usual, the shaman is overjoyed and hardly aware of the envious stares from his cousins. Instead, he places the new gift alongside those from Christmases past, including traveling form, frost shock, earthbind totem, windfury totem, his mail armor, his shiny 2200 armor shield, and his super heals.
We see the warm and cozy house slowly fade into away into the distance. The Paladin shield-hearths out of the picture before we can see him do much of anything. The Druid has now shapeshifted and spammed moonfire so much that she is now just a ball of blue and purple plasma. The Warrior, in a vicious rage, marches off to burn a senior living center. The Priest makes a mage alt, finds it to be the exact same character, and spontaneously combusts. The Mage screams profanities at his recalcitrant mana bar. The Rogue bangs his head against the wall, killing what few brain cells he already had. The Hunter and Warlock cry themselves to sleep. And as the scene finally fades away, we see the Shaman and Uncle Blizzard begin to passionately make-out.
Thus ends Christmas in the World of Warcraft.
~Frag :P