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Avarice PVP Team - Garrin - 12-28-2005
Alright, it's finally here all you pvp addicts. We have a team. We have a channel. We have a way to set up and get together and kick in some skulls together.
The original thread is here at The Basin's forum.
Basically all you have to do is:
1. be willing to pvp with other avarice members.
2. Join channel /pvppwnage
3. Set up teams as you get more and more folks in channel. This means if you are the first one in channel, you are to start setting up a team as more folks jump online.
4. Queue up as a team for whatever you are doing. As far as AV goes, try to queue up all at the same time, or around the same time so you don't get stuck in there alone...it's miserable alone....
5. Kick in some heads. And do it in the name of the Alliance. The Avarice Alliance that is.
It's that simple. Turq and I have shy'd away from having anyone wait for a "Team Leader" to arrive to set things up. We wanted to make it as seemless as possible for the most games possible.
Here is a list of some of the folks you can expect to see around and be teamed up with. All quality folks if you ask me ^_-.
Toon (Class)
Turquoise (Druid)
Venae (Warrior)
Sevanna (Mage)
Tuftears (Druid)
Sommados (Mage)
Siltara (Mage)
Midori (Mage)
Phaedra (Mage)
Verrfrey (Mage)
Sangochan (Warrior)
Skybreak (Warrior)
Salvina (Druid)
Valeska (Hunter)
Syladril (Warrior)
Cylanthe (Druid)
Genkar (Priest)
Amaranth (Paladin)
Mirajj (Hunter)
Garrin (Paladin)
Shalandrax (Warrior)
Lissanna (Hunter)
Miodvitnir (Hunter)
Cleoboltra (Priest)
Malody (Warlock)
Anadrol (Warrior)
And just about anyone else really that joins the channel. I don't want to exclude anyone from this, so anyone who hops in channel can be accepted amongst our ranks. Once we start getting better we might form permanant teams, but for now it's all about getting PVP a bigger place in this alliance of guilds.
Oh and lets knock Merana off her hill of dominance ^_-
Avarice PVP Team - Bolty - 12-28-2005
Garrin,Dec 27 2005, 11:39 PM Wrote:Alright, it's finally here all you pvp addicts. We have a team. We have a channel. We have a way to set up and get together and kick in some skulls together.[right][snapback]98125[/snapback][/right]Thanks for getting this set up, Garrin. If I could kiss my days of PUG PvP'ing goodbye, it would be fantastic.
PUG PvP is very much like PUG PvE - it's a lot harder to get anything done right, and it's rare that you actually have a good group. Like PUG PvE, though, every once in a while you meet a PUG PvP group where people actually understand.
I'm that rare commodity - a healing Priest in PvP. In Alterac Valley, I heal people until I'm out of mana, then run in to fear bomb and die to get my mana back. God forbid a mage actually makes me water, so why waste my time? Thanks to the auto-target mods that let players target me the moment I start healing, I've learned how to play very defensively.
In the Arathi Basin, I play a gritty flag defender. I simply do NOT let people take my flag. This is because I understand that what's important is the flag, not the HKs. I'll get more honor from having a flag point than from killing, and any kills I make defending it are just a bonus.
In Warsong Gulch, you'll find me trailing the flag bearer, being that irritant that forces the Horde to have to make the decision between trying to out-damage my healing on the flag carrier, or stopping to kill me first (in which case the flag bearer gets away).
All of these are activities that net me few HKs. All of these are activities that contribute toward battleground victories, however. And every once in a while, I meet an Alliance PUG that also understands this concept.
A few weeks back during an Arathi Basin holiday weekend, I popped into an early-morning PUG where a rogue and I hit it off. After taking the blacksmith, we both stuck around for defense and warded off attack after attack after attack. What made it special was the dual realization we each had...
Rogue: "Wow, this guy heals."
Me: "Wow, this rogue actually protects me."
We fell in love. :) We wound up in the same AB queue rotation a couple of times that morning, and always stuck by each other. Even the simplest framework of group PvP teamwork made us inseparable. I'll give an example.
A rogue and a warrior ran up to attack that blacksmith flag. Since it was a 2 on 2, we didn't feel the need to call for help, and dug in to play defense. Rogue stealthed as he was approaching, so I knew what was coming. So did my rogue friend.
The warrior charged me in Battle Stance (a mistake), and while I was stunned, the enemy rogue unstealthed and began keeping me under stun lock (smart). My rogue friend did the smart thing and waited in stealth while this got set up.
After the enemy rogue unstealthed to go for me, my rogue moved up behind him and gouged. Free from stunlock, I immediately could fear bomb both enemies off of me, DoT the enemy rogue, and start healing myself. We both ignored the warrior and decimated the enemy rogue in short order, and then mopped up the enemy warrior with ease.
Another example: we both were aware that two stealthed Horde rogues were near us and waiting to strike, but couldn't find them. I fanned out, performing my usual erratic movements, trying to see at least one of the rogues (and fear bomb them) before they could sap me. I failed, getting sapped, and the two rogues moved in on the flag.
Smart play for the Horde then would be to have the sapping rogue go in for the flag while the still-OOC rogue stays stealthed and patrols. But this was a Horde PUG, so smart play is rarely seen. Both rogues went for the flag to try to cap it. My rogue sapped the OOC rogue, and then started harassing the other. Not with an intent to kill him, but an intent to stop him from capping while my sap wears off. This was just damn intelligent play on his behalf - trying to kill the enemy may have worked, but would have left him in bad shape if the other rogue's sap broke early. So he used his 15-seconds-o-speed skill and just danced around the guy. This turned out to be a REALLY good idea since the sapped Horde rogue used his trinket (mine was still on cooldown) and it became a 2-on-1. Every time one of the rogues would try to cap the flag, he'd stab them to break it, and tried to stay away from getting hit by both of them. If the Horde rogues were smart, they would have both teamed up and obliterated my rogue, and then taken care of me (me vs. two rogues? Uh, game over, fast).
My sap finally broke, heal heal, fear bomb, gg.
In a normal PUG environment, my rogue would have been intent purely on getting an HK and ignoring everything else, even his own demise, and let the Hordies grab the flag easily while I was sapped. Then I'd get obliterated. Instead, my rogue played smart team defense, knowing that once I was free we'd easily crush the two attackers together.
TEAM play is what counts in the Battlegrounds. If we get 4-5 of us in an Alterac Valley together, I know I'm breaking off from the main raid and forming our own death squad party to take objectives and waste some Horde. I've been in too many AV games, and have seen how just 5-10 players really playing well *together* are what typically turn the tide one way or the other - not the masses sitting out in the Field of Strife just farming low-honor HKs all day.
Don't get me wrong; farming HKs is okay if that's really your only real goal, but the diminishing honor returns from killing the same guys over and over in a 5-hour-long AV match makes it POINTLESS. I like to win, and winning comes from playing as a team. :) Hope to see you guys on the Battlegrounds!
Side note: I'm mostly a weekend warrior. I will typically play a battleground on its holiday weekend, unless it's WSG which I've almost totally given up on since my record there is 0-17. Maybe I'll finally win one when I'm not in a PUG where:
1) The flag carrier tries to mount up when they leave the horde base (sigh)
2) I'm not the only person trying to defend the alliance flag
3) I'm not the only person actually trying to defend the flag carrier
4) I'm not the only person actually trying to get our flag back
5) I'm the only player not just standing out in the center area trying to farm HKs.
I mean, 0-17. I know Horde has an advantage in WSG due to the Shaman, but FFS...the lack of team play in Alliance Stormrage PUGs in WSG matches is atrocious. I think so many of the participants are so used to Horde always winning that they don't really try anymore - a self-fulfilling prophecy. I've been in so many matches where it's clear people are just going for HKs and not paying any attention to the flags.
If you read this far, congratulations! You have some real stamina :)
-Bolty
Avarice PVP Team - Darian - 12-28-2005
PvP makes me cry. However, you've touched on many of the reasons why here.
This weekend, at an ungodly hour of the morning, I got bored and decided to take Caerdwyn (whom I've never even dueled with, much less engaged in group PvP) to WSG and see if I could figure some things out. From the names in the group I ended up with, I expected some level of an idea, and thought maybe someone might take charge or something and give some instructions.
Boy, was I dreaming. The only thing that came across raid chat the entire match was a few "goddamnit"s and one lone "this is why the Alliance never wins WSG" from Toxicity.
Left on my own, I made a point of either trying to stay close to our flagbearer in hopes of dropping an occasional fear bomb, or trying to stall the horde flagbearer if I came across him, but nobody else seemed to consistently have the same idea.
I'm like you; I could give a damn about the HKs, I wanna win. And that's why I just can't make time to stand around in queue for this crap. But if I'm not doing anything more interesting and see a bunch of you in battlegrounds now, I think I'll make a point of queueing up.
Avarice PVP Team - Kevin - 12-28-2005
And what is odd is that I'm 5-3 in WSG and 0-5 in Arathi Basin 0-1 in Alterac Valley.
Gnolack is not worth much solo. I do not do raging death like a damage spec warrior can in many 1v1 match-ups. I'm an annoyance factor and I can live a little longer than damage spec warriors. My PvP gear is set-up to help with what damage I can do (I can still throw executes out) but I still carry a lot of def +dodge and +parry and as much stamina as I can get. Yeah I know that warriors will get more overpowers in on me with a dodge around 15% but I generally keep them from being crits.
I can hamstring people chasing the flag and then intercept another one to slow them up and hopefull get a conc blow on yet a 3rd. I can pick up the flag and turtle along in defensive stance with a shield on and if I get heals maybe move it somewhere. I can throw fears around. I can run into the middle of 5 people running to our base and if I can't shout them away I can turtle and annoy them for 4 or 5 seconds while help gets closer. I can go after whoever has our flag and do an intercept/hamstring/conc blow and while I may die that keeps them from getting it back and if they drop it I get ignored whill clicking it to return it. I can escape artist out of frost nova to keep moving too and 1.9 will make escape artist much more useful. I can silence, not just interrupt, casters. I can keep a caster shut up for a good 8 to 10 seconds or less time but making them burn their trinket or get blink into a cooldown.
I'm OK at flag defense. I'm OK roaming (no epic mount though I'm horrible at making money and I still needs tons of runecloth so I can get a ram that doesn't drive me nuts with noise when I ride), I'm OK on assaults because I can harass the other players.
I need more twitch skills and probably need to change my skill bar arrangement yet again. I'll never be good at PvP but I don't completey suck. In many cases Taranna or Balador might be better to take along on a PuG than Gnolack (people see warrior assume MS or Fury spec and assume they'll be out there doing 200+ DPS not my crappy 120 or so if I'm lucky) I can protect a priest better but I need more help to kill anything. I don't have any of the mods to help me target crap and I won't get any so if you expect me to pick up healers or casters right away because of a mod it won't happen. I'll have to do it via a self made macro or by hand.
So yeah I'll probably jump in a few BG's now and then.
Avarice PVP Team - VoiceMan - 12-28-2005
Amen to all of that. I have a druid who has spent an awful lot of time in WSG, all PUG's with the exception of a guildie who might be in there once every few weeks with me. Now, it has been my experience in PvP that organization is the biggest weakness. I joined a match last week, where a pally had our flag (my druid is horde), and somehow got stuck up on top of the wall on the side of our base, where you couldn't get to him. This standoff lasted an hour, with both teams holding the flag, and we spent time defending our flag. A couple of us were finally able to convince our flag carrier to just drop their flag and let it return, so we could either attack the pally once he jumped down off the wall, or just hope we could recover from the score. Well, the pally followed our example, and dropped our flag right after we dropped theirs, so we were basically able to start the match over again. I then proceeded to score all three flags myself, and the match was over in ten minutes. I think it's excellent that you guys are trying to put some organization into this, right from the very beginning. I would imagine you should have alot of success! :D Woot! Kick in some horde heads....(on SR anyway). ;)
Avarice PVP Team - Garrin - 12-28-2005
I'm really really looking forward to seeing everyone in there with me. I've been working with bolty, TD and Liss for the past week and have had an absolute blast.
As for Gnolack GG, ANY warrior i get my hands on during a game will push an advance at least 20-30 yards. Even the crappiest of warrior players have made hella advances by just pushing with pali support. I've found my niche ^_-. Now if i get sapped, sheeped or any of these bad little things it'll put a slight halt on healing if my cooldowns aren't up and good to go. But if they are i can maintain a heal bot status for at least 10 kills along the horde front.
Oh and not to mention after i'm OOM i'll jump in the fray and hit my stun, SoC and consecration for the extra DPS, and probably take down a stray warrior or caster type in the process.
I think the horde is starting to hate me though...after only a few minutes of being in game they start to target me now ^_-.
So is life! or death for that matter...
Avarice PVP Team - Kevin - 12-28-2005
Garrin,Dec 28 2005, 02:23 PM Wrote:I'm really really looking forward to seeing everyone in there with me. I've been working with bolty, TD and Liss for the past week and have had an absolute blast.
As for Gnolack GG, ANY warrior i get my hands on during a game will push an advance at least 20-30 yards. Even the crappiest of warrior players have made hella advances by just pushing with pali support. I've found my niche ^_-. Now if i get sapped, sheeped or any of these bad little things it'll put a slight halt on healing if my cooldowns aren't up and good to go. But if they are i can maintain a heal bot status for at least 10 kills along the horde front.
Oh and not to mention after i'm OOM i'll jump in the fray and hit my stun, SoC and consecration for the extra DPS, and probably take down a stray warrior or caster type in the process.
I think the horde is starting to hate me though...after only a few minutes of being in game they start to target me now ^_-.
So is life! or death for that matter...
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Oh I know. I'm pretty damn tough to kill with support. I was just observing that in PuG groups I'm must less valuable, this isn't always the case for damage spec warriors. :)
Avarice PVP Team - Garrin - 12-28-2005
Gnollguy,Dec 28 2005, 02:39 PM Wrote:Oh I know. I'm pretty damn tough to kill with support. I was just observing that in PuG groups I'm must less valuable, this isn't always the case for damage spec warriors. :)
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Well hopefully with this set up, PUG's will be a thing of the past for most avarice folks.
Speaking of which, anyone not doing ZG tonight, i'll be on at around 5 server ready to go. We'll coordinate in /pvppwnage ^_-
Avarice PVP Team - Mirajj - 12-29-2005
Heh. I'm finally starting to find 'my' place in WSG PvP, and that is midfield/tunnel defence. I can tie up multiple enemies, and do all sorts of fun things to them, even more so with support (A pally and I tear up, if we co-ordinate). Looking forward to seeing y'all in there!
Avarice PVP Team - Garrin - 12-29-2005
Mirajj,Dec 28 2005, 11:13 PM Wrote:Heh. I'm finally starting to find 'my' place in WSG PvP, and that is midfield/tunnel defence. I can tie up multiple enemies, and do all sorts of fun things to them, even more so with support (A pally and I tear up, if we co-ordinate). Looking forward to seeing y'all in there!
[right][snapback]98212[/snapback][/right]
We just had our first team game tonight. only 5 members so far because of the ZG run, but it was hella fun, though we did have one pick up member who was completely annoying and pompous, but i told him off promtly and he didn't say anything after that. Unfortunately we lost the game, but it was close and very well played on both sides. And it was even a first time for one of our members and a second for another ^_^! I'm really happy with how things are shaping up.
Hopefully we can set up a full team soon, possibly this weekend, and get a real feel for where we are at.
Avarice PVP Team - castille - 12-29-2005
Garrin,Dec 29 2005, 02:16 AM Wrote:We just had our first team game tonight. only 5 members so far because of the ZG run, but it was hella fun, though we did have one pick up member who was completely annoying and pompous, but i told him off promtly and he didn't say anything after that. Unfortunately we lost the game, but it was close and very well played on both sides. And it was even a first time for one of our members and a second for another ^_^! I'm really happy with how things are shaping up.
Hopefully we can set up a full team soon, possibly this weekend, and get a real feel for where we are at.
[right][snapback]98216[/snapback][/right]
I was quite impressed with the horde -- it went from a playstyle that I thought was going to be a quick victory for us to a really tightened up playstyle. It really did become a contest of who could find the other team's flagbearer faster on that last cap.
MS spec'd warriors with untamed blade still suck. Ow. ;)
Avarice PVP Team - VoiceMan - 12-29-2005
Speaking from alot of Horde WSG experience, I can vouch that at least on Terenas, the biggest problem Horde has is getting organized. They're almost always PUG groups, and of course everyone has their own idea, and everyone is mostly obsessed with just killing some Alliance, so they spend alot of time in the middle of the field fighting and chasing anything that has a red-lettered name above it's head. When we can get a group to follow directions, and work together, it's pretty good. I'd say in my experience, on Terenas, Horde wins the WSG matches probably 70% of the time. Terenas Horde, to my knowledge, doesn't have many "PvP" teams that play together, and get on Teamspeak or something, so the organization is lacking. That's what impressed me with this thread and your goal of organizing a team. That should make you dominate the matches you play, once you get it rolling. Heck....I may need to work up my level 14 human mage Mhalderon on Stormrage just so I can come be a part of that team. :D
Avarice PVP Team - Concillian - 12-30-2005
VoiceMan,Dec 29 2005, 03:03 PM Wrote:Speaking from alot of Horde WSG experience, I can vouch that at least on Terenas, the biggest problem Horde has is getting organized. They're almost always PUG groups, and of course everyone has their own idea, and everyone is mostly obsessed with just killing some Alliance, so they spend alot of time in the middle of the field fighting and chasing anything that has a red-lettered name above it's head. When we can get a group to follow directions, and work together, it's pretty good. I'd say in my experience, on Terenas, Horde wins the WSG matches probably 70% of the time. Terenas Horde, to my knowledge, doesn't have many "PvP" teams that play together, and get on Teamspeak or something, so the organization is lacking. That's what impressed me with this thread and your goal of organizing a team. That should make you dominate the matches you play, once you get it rolling. Heck....I may need to work up my level 14 human mage Mhalderon on Stormrage just so I can come be a part of that team. :D
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This sounds like what I've seen pre-60.
60 is an entirely different beast in my experience.
1) there are at least 3-4 GOOD and epic geared alliance teams... Hitmen, Vision, Eternal Keggers, and one that may be slipping my memory.
2) there are also a few well equipped and good horde teams... Thrall's Champions and Regicide are a few I recognize. Also the high ranking PvP ladder people sometimes run a PUG of high ranked people using vent, and they are good.
We have less exposure to the good teams of our own faction, but they are out there.
Last WSG weekend I participated in about 20-25 level 60 matches. Horde won 3 of the matches I was in. 60 horde WSG sucks as a PUG member. The full teams see a good team on the other side and AFK out. Then as a PUG member, that is where you end up. Since they have a full team, they can't fit in the instance they just left, so they get a brand new instance with a new alliance team. All the solo/PUG members are stuck in the instance with the challenging team. If they AFK out and re-join the queue, they'll end up right back in the same instance, since there is plenty of room there.
Rarely when i queued alone would I ever end up in an instance with a PUG alliance group. 9 times out of 10 I'd end up in an instance that a good horde group just AFK'd out of. Because of this, the PUG record in WSG is really bad at 60. I'm sure the organized teams do great though <_<
I've come to despise WSG holiday weekend.
Avarice PVP Team - Lissa - 12-30-2005
VoiceMan,Dec 29 2005, 04:03 PM Wrote:Speaking from alot of Horde WSG experience, I can vouch that at least on Terenas, the biggest problem Horde has is getting organized. They're almost always PUG groups, and of course everyone has their own idea, and everyone is mostly obsessed with just killing some Alliance, so they spend alot of time in the middle of the field fighting and chasing anything that has a red-lettered name above it's head. When we can get a group to follow directions, and work together, it's pretty good. I'd say in my experience, on Terenas, Horde wins the WSG matches probably 70% of the time. Terenas Horde, to my knowledge, doesn't have many "PvP" teams that play together, and get on Teamspeak or something, so the organization is lacking. That's what impressed me with this thread and your goal of organizing a team. That should make you dominate the matches you play, once you get it rolling. Heck....I may need to work up my level 14 human mage Mhalderon on Stormrage just so I can come be a part of that team. :D
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The problem we have on SR is the Horde is organized and the Alliance is disorganized for the most part.
Avarice PVP Team - sosostress - 12-30-2005
The thing I've noticed is that healers generally don't heal the flag carrier (in WSG), charging warriors (in AV), and defenders (in AB). I'm saying this about PuGs, mind you. I've found that Avarice folk are quite savvy about healing.
The other thing is that in AV, people are "afraid" to die. Again, this is a generalization about PuGs, not directed at anyone in Avarice. To wit, Avarice folks I've PvPed with definitely know what they're doing.
I definitely echo people's observations about disorganization. That said, even playing with 3 people who know what they're doing in WSG can turn the tide, particularly when dealing with capping flags.
Anyway, I'm thrilled about Avarice PvP teams! I can't wait!
Avarice PVP Team - VoiceMan - 12-30-2005
Quote:60 is an entirely different beast in my experience.
1) there are at least 3-4 GOOD and epic geared alliance teams... Hitmen, Vision, Eternal Keggers, and one that may be slipping my memory.
2) there are also a few well equipped and good horde teams... Thrall's Champions and Regicide are a few I recognize. Also the high ranking PvP ladder people sometimes run a PUG of high ranked people using vent, and they are good.
I agree. My experience at level 60 PvP has been much different than the pre-60 groups. Much more fickle, and if they feel the match doesn't favor them, they just quit. So much for taking on a challenge, etc. or just enjoying the competition. :P
Avarice PVP Team - Bolty - 12-31-2005
sosostress,Dec 30 2005, 11:45 AM Wrote:The other thing is that in AV, people are "afraid" to die. Again, this is a generalization about PuGs, not directed at anyone in Avarice.[right][snapback]98325[/snapback][/right]Oh man, total truth. I can never figure that out. Death in PvP is nothing; a few seconds to res and you're off and running again at full health/mana.
This is why it's so impossible to lead charges on graveyards. All it would take is 10-20 players just charging right for the flag to cap it, and they just won't go. The only reason I can think of is because they're scared of dying. Don't want to be the first one charging in, etc.
I love being the first one in. Fear bomb, turtle-heal (read: self heal constantly), wait to die, watch the calvary come in behind me to cap and defend the flag. I die? So what, we got the flag.
-Bolty
Avarice PVP Team - Garrin - 01-01-2006
Had an awesome time pvp'in with you all today! I can't wait for tomorrow. I'll definitely be up and runnin sometime after the wifey leaves for work.
Memorable moments from today:
The Unkillable Tauren Warrior
The photo finish Flag Capture by Rayen
Getting Feared by 4 priests for an entire game
And from the looks of it we had enough interest most of the day to fill at least 1.5 teams. Saturday seems to be the target day to snatch up the most folks for team play. I know we can keep at least 4-7 during the week most days. I hope to see more of ya's around ^_^.
Awesome job today all.
Avarice PVP Team - Kevin - 01-01-2006
Garrin,Dec 31 2005, 08:25 PM Wrote:Had an awesome time pvp'in with you all today! I can't wait for tomorrow. I'll definitely be up and runnin sometime after the wifey leaves for work.
Memorable moments from today:
The Unkillable Tauren Warrior
The photo finish Flag Capture by Rayen
Getting Feared by 4 priests for an entire game
And from the looks of it we had enough interest most of the day to fill at least 1.5 teams. Saturday seems to be the target day to snatch up the most folks for team play. I know we can keep at least 4-7 during the week most days. I hope to see more of ya's around ^_^.
Awesome job today all.
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It's gotten better. We got Turquoise who along with Rayen, Darian, and whoever else we throw at time, are the flag capping masters! So with a new druid and still having a few warriors I swapped to Balador. We've won three matches in a row 3 to 0.
Galreth and Balador are the unkillable team because they are always stupid. One time they will focus on me and ignore the monster fury warrior and I will spam heal myself and hope the mana pool holds. One time the focused on Galreth and completley ignored me (and Darian picking up the flag and leaving the room) and we won. Then I had to laugh when I thought they finally figured it out. They were interrupting me with a couple of people but they would loose focus after that. They split damage instead of interrupting me then killing me, or Galreth. Instead they interrupted me and then one or two would attack Galreth and one or two would attack me instead of using the 6 seconds of helpless pally (they saw me bubble earlier).
And with imp blessing of wisdom I can spam rank 1 consecrate for free which means they can't sneak up on me. And with a hunter patroling around and putting a trap down it's even more protection against that. :)
Warsong Gulch was fun instaed of Gah this sucks!
We haven't stopped yet either. :)
Avarice PVP Team - RTM - 01-01-2006
Frankly, I have no clue what I am doing PvP-wise as a warlock. Basically I DoT everything in sight, Shadowbolt whenever Nightfall procs, and fear anything that looks threatening. I see my role as a disruptive one, and if that's the way it's supposed to be then great; if not, at least I'm having a blast. :D