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Any car mechanics in the house? - DeeBye - 09-06-2009

I've posted about this car before.

It's a 1987 Toyota Camry that my grandfather passed down to me before he died. It's really old, but it only has 150,000 kilometers on it and runs like a champ. I have a new car, but the wife uses that one for work and I use the old Camry to drive the ~5km trip to work each day. Clearly the Camry is not worth a whole lot of money at this point, so I don't want to invest large sums of dollars on keeping it on the road.

A few days ago, my exhaust snapped. Most of the exhaust was replaced a few years ago, but not all of it. The part that broke is called the flex pipe, and connects the engine to the rest of the exhaust.

Hey look a pretty picture!

[Image: exhaustr.jpg]

The pipe sheared off right at the flange due to rust, but the rest of it looks to be in okay shape. The problem is that the rear section of the exhaust is supported by a hangar forward of the break, so if I attempted to drive it the rear pipe would dig into the road and either shoot out the back of my car and kill whoever was driving behind me at the time, or it would pole vault my car onto the hood and kill whoever was driving it at the time (me!). Option 1 is expensive, but option 2 is less appealing.

I priced a new pipe, and it will cost me about $250. That does not include the labour to install it, and I don't have the necessary tools or know-how to install it myself. If I had a repair shop fix it with a new pipe, it would cost me more than the car is worth, so I won't go that route.

I found a product at a hardware store called Muffler Tape. It's basically some heat resistant material that you dip in a heat resistant epoxy and you can use it to patch up breaks in exhausts. It's really cheap. I'm hoping that a liberal use of this stuff might get me another 6 months or a year for this car. Does anyone have any experience with this stuff?

The other option as I see it is to call up a custom exhaust shop and have them weld the thing back together. I am not a welder, so I have no idea if it is at all possible. The area has some rusted out pipe, but it's not more than 1/2" from the break at the most. The rest of the exhaust is fairly rust-free. I just don't know what the wonders of modern welding science can do these days.

Here is another picture of my old car. Help me save this car!
[Image: dsc00005ni7.jpg]

Any car mechanics in the house? - --Pete - 09-06-2009

Hi,

Quote:If I had a repair shop fix it with a new pipe, it would cost me more than the car is worth, so I won't go that route.
What a car is worth from a sales standpoint is not necessarily what it's worth from a utility standpoint. An older car in good condition *might* be worth fixing for more than it would sell for when compared to buying a replacement.

Quote:I found a product at a hardware store called Muffler Tape. . . . Does anyone have any experience with this stuff?
Yes. I've used it a few times. Unless you really really really clean the area where you plan to apply it, the tape will stick to the rust, but the rust will not stick to the pipe. Even if you put it on right, the tape continues to harden, and eventually gets brittle. At that point, it will usually crack at the joint you fixed and you'll be back to where you are now. I've never had a tape only fix last more than about six to eight months. Oh, and did I mention you really need to clean the area? Try Rust-Oleum to remove the rust (not the paint).

If there's some solid material left on the exhaust pipe on either side of the break, a cheap yet solid repair can be made. You need some thin steel, not aluminum, sheet, not foil, about 0.05 mm should be right. A piece long enough to get a couple of centimeters onto the solid material and wide enough to wrap about twice around the pipe will do the trick. You also need two clamps, often called hose clamps. They're the ones with the screw that tightens the strap. Wrap the sheet around the pipe (you might want to pre-form it around a smaller pipe first) and clamp the two ends down. Then carefully wrap it with the Magic tape, paying special attention to where the sheet ends. The main danger is an exhaust leak into the passenger compartment, but if you do a tight job, you should be fine.

Quote:The other option as I see it is to call up a custom exhaust shop and have them weld the thing back together. I am not a welder, so I have no idea if it is at all possible. The area has some rusted out pipe, but it's not more than 1/2" from the break at the most. The rest of the exhaust is fairly rust-free. I just don't know what the wonders of modern welding science can do these days.
This is probably the best bet of all. They can cut the pipe back to where it is solid, and then replace the rusted part with standard stock. If there isn't any good pipe at the flange end, they can cut off the old, and weld new to the flange, or even replace he whole flange. I've no idea how much this would cost, since back in the days I did this kind of thing, is was barter between friends.

Good luck.

--Pete

Any car mechanics in the house? - eppie - 09-06-2009

Quote:and I use the old Camry to drive the ~5km trip to work each day.


Buy a bike!!! Using a car for 5 km trips is just ridiculous.

Any car mechanics in the house? - kandrathe - 09-06-2009

Quote:If there's some solid material left on the exhaust pipe on either side of the break, a cheap yet solid repair can be made. You need some thin steel, not aluminum, sheet, not foil, about 0.05 mm should be right. A piece long enough to get a couple of centimeters onto the solid material and wide enough to wrap about twice around the pipe will do the trick. You also need two clamps, often called hose clamps. They're the ones with the screw that tightens the strap. Wrap the sheet around the pipe (you might want to pre-form it around a smaller pipe first) and clamp the two ends down. Then carefully wrap it with the Magic tape, paying special attention to where the sheet ends. The main danger is an exhaust leak into the passenger compartment, but if you do a tight job, you should be fine.
This is probably the best bet of all. They can cut the pipe back to where it is solid, and then replace the rusted part with standard stock. If there isn't any good pipe at the flange end, they can cut off the old, and weld new to the flange, or even replace he whole flange. I've no idea how much this would cost, since back in the days I did this kind of thing, is was barter between friends.
I concur with Pete. Back when I exclusively drove clunkers, and rebuilt cars, this is a situation easily resolved with a steel can, a wire brush, primer paint, and muffler tape. Also, check out the exhaust section at the auto parts store. There might be a small piece that can you can fit in nicely to replace only the broken section. The hardest part of working with exhaust systems is getting the old bolts off.


Any car mechanics in the house? - DeeBye - 09-06-2009

Quote:Buy a bike!!! Using a car for 5 km trips is just ridiculous.

Look closely at the 2nd picture.

Any car mechanics in the house? - eppie - 09-06-2009

Quote:Look closely at the 2nd picture.

I also live at 59 degrees latitude. And some days indeed going by bike can be difficult.
Anyway, from your remark I take it that you only need your car when it snows, and the rest of the year you go by bike.:)


ps....the street seems to be cleaned.:)

Any car mechanics in the house? - DeeBye - 09-06-2009

Quote:I also live at 59 degrees latitude. And some days indeed going by bike can be difficult.
Anyway, from your remark I take it that you only need your car when it snows, and the rest of the year you go by bike.:)
ps....the street seems to be cleaned.:)

I have a car, and not a bike. Therefore I drive my car. I also slaughter baby seals and use excessive amounts of styrofoam.

Any car mechanics in the house? - --Pete - 09-06-2009

Hi,

Quote: . . . I also slaughter baby seals . . .
Could you spare about six pelts? I'd love to get a jacket made. :lol:

--Pete


Any car mechanics in the house? - --Pete - 09-06-2009

Hi,

Quote:The hardest part of working with exhaust systems is getting the old bolts off.
Very true -- I've found Liquid Wrench and heat (LP torch is good) to help a lot. That was pre WD-40, which might work better. Also, if you're looking at a nut and bolt (as opposed to a nut and stud) it's often easier and faster just to shear or chisel the old ones off and replace them. Studs are a problem, but shouldn't be much of an issue in this case, since they're mostly up where the manifold connects to the block.

--Pete


Any car mechanics in the house? - DeeBye - 09-07-2009

Quote:Hi,
Very true -- I've found Liquid Wrench and heat (LP torch is good) to help a lot. That was pre WD-40, which might work better. Also, if you're looking at a nut and bolt (as opposed to a nut and stud) it's often easier and faster just to shear or chisel the old ones off and replace them. Studs are a problem, but shouldn't be much of an issue in this case, since they're mostly up where the manifold connects to the block.

There are no studs, just some rusty bolts. I picked up some muffler tape and I'm going to give that a go. If it doesn't hold I'll bring it over to a muffler shop and see if they can weld it. If they can't, I'll see if some local salvage yards have a used flex pipe in decent shape.

Thanks for the replies here. The car is old, but it's in decent shape otherwise and has a certain amount of sentimental value seeing as it was my late grandfather's. I think he'd appreciate me doing what I could to keep it going, but he'd also hate me dumping excessive amounts of money into it.

Any car mechanics in the house? - eppie - 09-07-2009

Quote: ...I also slaughter baby seals ...


Yeah right mister deebye....and how do you do that....you use a drive by technique? Or when you are clubbing you actually dare to get out of your car?

Any car mechanics in the house? - --Pete - 09-07-2009

Hi,

Quote:Yeah right mister deebye....and how do you do that....you use a drive by technique? Or when you are clubbing you actually dare to get out of your car?
Well, I don't know how he does it, but my favorite technique is with a polo mallet from a snowmobile. :lol:

-Pete

Any car mechanics in the house? - Concillian - 09-08-2009

exhaust shops, especially those in areas with that much snow (and therefore experienced in dealing with rusty exhausts) should be able to weld that up pretty decent.

I was into car performance for a while and if you find a local Honda / Subaru / Toyota / whatever performance car club forum ("enthusiast" is often used to describe them), you can ask them about an exhaust shop that will do work like that cheap (the performance guys will know the cheap shops, other avenues are pretty hit and miss on prices). Local shop here was $40 a weld on a single stainless weld. Dunno what it was on mild steel, which is probably what yours is, should be less, should also be less, but you'll need 2 welds.

Anyway, find a matching flange online (just the flange) and he should have some pipe the right diameter to weld it to. He may have the right flange too. He'll cut out the rusted section and weld the pipes together. Should be around $100 at most, I'd think.


You can remove the muffler and drive around with just that pipe like that (will be LOUD in a normally aspirated car though). Driving without the muffler short distances is okay, but long term, the real issue with it is that you'll potentially be dumping all the heat in the exhaust someplace you don't want it the rear footwell, the brake lines, the rear tires... it might go to an okay place, but it might not too.

Any car mechanics in the house? - Maitre - 09-08-2009

Quote:I have a car, and not a bike. Therefore I drive my car. I also slaughter baby seals and use excessive amounts of styrofoam.


Oooh, ooh, do you microwave the styrofoam when you've unpacked it from the box? I hear that's great fun. (yes that was a joke, no you should not not do this, yes I know it is harmful to all involved including the microwave).

It was many years ago, but at some point the only thing holding a piece of the exhaust on my father's '76 Buick was a leather belt. I think it was wrapped around the car frame and a bit of the hanger that was still fastened to the exhaust pipe and not the pipe itself (to reduce heat transfer) though I only saw the thing a few times, and I was under the age of 10 at the time so I may have mis-remembered.

I'm rubbish with cars, so my first thought would be to find a professional and pay them to make the repair correctly. Of course finding a mechanic who will deal with you professionaly (if you get my drift) is always the difficult part with cars.

Any car mechanics in the house? - ShadowHM - 09-08-2009

Quote:Buy a bike!!! Using a car for 5 km trips is just ridiculous.

Thanks for sharing that opinion. You don't know the conditions under which you are expecting DeeBye to ride that bike. He lives in a snow belt. Holland*, AFAIK, never gets snow conditions like London, Ontario gets regularly each winter.

I also regularly drive a route that is less than 5 km. It would be extremely unsafe for me or my children to try to bike that particular distance here in Toronto.

You could have kept out of this thread altogether. You could have asked politely why riding a bike was not an option. Instead you chose to tell him he was worthy of ridicule. :(

On topic, DeeBye, I have a wonderful (competant and trustworthy) mechanic who has managed my vehicle issues for many years. He has a lot of experience with keeping older cars on the road. Unfortunately, he is a bit distant for you to consult... :whistling:



*or any other part of Europe

Any car mechanics in the house? - eppie - 09-08-2009

Quote:Thanks for sharing that opinion. You don't know the conditions under which you are expecting DeeBye to ride that bike. He lives in a snow belt. Holland*, AFAIK, never gets snow conditions like London, Ontario gets regularly each winter.

I also regularly drive a route that is less than 5 km. It would be extremely unsafe for me or my children to try to bike that particular distance here in Toronto.

You could have kept out of this thread altogether. You could have asked politely why riding a bike was not an option. Instead you chose to tell him he was worthy of ridicule. :(

On topic, DeeBye, I have a wonderful (competant and trustworthy) mechanic who has managed my vehicle issues for many years. He has a lot of experience with keeping older cars on the road. Unfortunately, he is a bit distant for you to consult... :whistling:
*or any other part of Europe

Like I said I am almost sure I live more to the north than any other lounger (maybe except for wcip angel).
And of course I don't expect everybody to go by bike all the time....especially with certain conditions (small children).
Anyway, I have heard in the many place I have been living so many people giving me the reasons for which they couldn't go by bike. (ranging from the south of Italy to the heart of Scandinavia). I find deebye's answer in that sense a lot more honest than yours.....he just says he doesn't give a crap and that is his fair right.

I also own a car and use it when necessary, it is just that we have a lot of really sensible discussions on the lounge and then reading that somebody needs the care everyday to do 5km seems to be a slap in the face for all of us.

As I said, I found deebye's reply honest although it makes me a bit sad: I don't mind so much from him as he doesn't get involved in the more serious discussions here (I would have flamed Kandrathe after a remark like that:)(although I am sure he is a heavy car user anyway:) )



But commenting directly on your remarks....I might start a thread on using bikes instead of cars. Point it it will be of no use.....even in Kandrathe's libertarian heaven the public can't even work on a better infrastructure that makes it easier for people to go around by bike.....and they better start working on it....when in 20 years energy is too expensive everybody has to take the bike.



(another remark about the safety issue.....if Toronto is anything like the US, traffic seems to be very safe (apart from there being no bike lanes).....I have lived through 20 km a day on a bike in the south of Italy.....any city that makes it difficult for bikes and focusses on car traffic will destroy itsself one day)

Any car mechanics in the house? - ShadowHM - 09-08-2009

Quote:Like I said I am almost sure I live more to the north than any other lounger (maybe except for wcip angel).
Irrelevant. I didn't reference latitude. I referenced snow belts.

Quote:Anyway, I have heard in the many place I have been living so many people giving me the reasons for which they couldn't go by bike. (ranging from the south of Italy to the heart of Scandinavia). I find deebye's answer in that sense a lot more honest than yours.....he just says he doesn't give a crap and that is his fair right.
And your fair right is to belittle him. :rolleyes: And my fair right is to point that out. :whistling:

Quote:I also own a car and use it when necessary, it is just that we have a lot of really sensible discussions on the lounge and then reading that somebody needs the care everyday to do 5km seems to be a slap in the face for all of us.

Only when you fail to realize all of the relevant details of his situation...

Quote:(another remark about the safety issue.....if Toronto is anything like the US, traffic seems to be very safe (apart from there being no bike lanes).....I have lived through 20 km a day on a bike in the south of Italy.....any city that makes it difficult for bikes and focusses on car traffic will destroy itsself one day)
My congratulations to you for surviving your tour of Italy. However, just because Toronto has safer traffic conditions than the south of Italy doesn't make it actually safe to ride a bike. We are in the midst of a major debate about it here, due to a high-profile death recently.

Any car mechanics in the house? - Tal - 09-08-2009

Quote:Buy a bike!!! Using a car for 5 km trips is just ridiculous.

Hey way to point out DeeBye's pegleg. Geez show some sensitivity to our Canadian Pirate Brethren.

Sail on DeeBye. Sail on!

Any car mechanics in the house? - eppie - 09-08-2009

Quote:And your fair right is to belittle him. :rolleyes: And my fair right is to point that out. :whistling:

Agree:ph34r:


Quote: However, just because Toronto has safer traffic conditions than the south of Italy doesn't make it actually safe to ride a bike.


And this is the whole point. The more people start going by car and leaving the bike, the more dangerous it actually becomes.
It is the same as with the trend (hopefully it stopped now) of people buying bigger and heavier cars all the time (SUV and such)....you hear many family people that say ' it is the safest car for my kids and it is my right to have it so I buy one'. Of course when everybody buys such a car it is not safer anymore and the general road safety will actually be worse (especially for bikes and pedestrians). I think it is a cause worth fighting for...I do my bit, and am always happy to push other people to do that as well.

ps we also get loads of snow....for that we have spiked tires.

Any car mechanics in the house? - weakwarrior - 09-08-2009

Quote:Look closely at the 2nd picture.
Well obviously you should pick up and move! Duh!