Holy Moly! Rogue PvP Vid - Printable Version

Holy Moly! Rogue PvP Vid - Printable Version

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Holy Moly! Rogue PvP Vid - Watto44 - 05-11-2006

Plugging a home-server pvp vid by Sysyphus. Some very cool stuff, from a very good rogue. :) (And no, I don't think rogues should be nerfed. :P ) This sort of stuff makes me excited about pvp again. :)

Links:

http://files.filefront.com/F_Epicswmv/;505...;/fileinfo.html

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1994747359189047608

Enjoy

Holy Moly! Rogue PvP Vid - Quark - 05-11-2006

Some observations:

1) Another Rogue video, another video with no footage of WSG/AB/AV. :P

2) His timing was among the best I've seen from Rogues not using Stunwatch/Energywatch (at least, I didn't see them). Good, I'm not the only one who doesn't use them :)

3) An annoying amount of fights where what we saw started with the target at 50% or less life. Either overedited or he was hiding something in those cases.

4) Anyone else notice two of his easiest kills were epic-geared Rogues? :P

Holy Moly! Rogue PvP Vid - Watto44 - 05-11-2006

I know that Sysyphus used to boycott BGs, although I've seen him in a couple of times in the last two months. (His old guild name was <BGsRNOTPVP>.)

Quote:4) Anyone else notice two of his easiest kills were epic-geared Rogues? tongue.gif

Haha yeah, I noticed that. It was neat to see how his execution just plain out did them. :)

Quote:3) An annoying amount of fights where what we saw started with the target at 50% or less life. Either overedited or he was hiding something in those cases.

I'm discovering how incredibly difficult it is to get good PvP footage. :( I always forget to turn fraps on for the difficult fights, which is really annoying on the odd occasions I win them. :) (Also, why do people always help when you're winning, but never when you loosing? :blush: )

But I see your point. (Hehe, "Dodge. Miss. Dodge. Shield.") Luckily the "signature" fights were all clean. (ie. The thunderfury rogue and hand of hag warrior.)

On a simillar - sort of - vein, mages might want to have a peep at Schyla's new vid:

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=20198

(Has an extremely handsome druid geting zomgwtfpwn'ed by his own grenade. I love engineering.)

While I'm plugging hometown heros, checkout Thesixthman's warlock vids:

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=18355

(The only time you'll ever see me in one of his movies is my backside running away. :) )

Holy Moly! Rogue PvP Vid - Drasca - 05-17-2006

Watto44,May 11 2006, 06:30 PM Wrote:http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=18355

(The only time you'll ever see me in one of his movies is my backside running away. :) )
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I am some what disappointed by 6th man. While I like that he's facing 2v1 a lot of the time, the competition he faces is sub par.

In that video, I've seen:
Hunters that: Use serpent sting (poison damage) over viper (the mana drain hunter poison) against casters. Didn't' see any trap action from any of those hunters either.
I think the Happiness mechanics for hunter pets should be changed to they never run away even while completely unhappy. That's lower damage, but hunters could actually use their pets in BG this way.
Shaman that use Frost shock or Healing wave instead of earth shock
Priests that don't heal their allies or use mana burn
No pallies, obviously.
Warlocks that don't banish or howl of terror succubi.
Wars/Melee that dont intercept/snare/ bunny hop around the caster, or stand around looking dumb while he runs away even while hamstringed. Were those guys horribly lagged?
Mages are pretty much always owned by the Soul Link / Felhunter pairing, so that's no surprise there.
Lastly, Running away while both are at low health!?!? Epsecially running away as a melee char vs insta dot locks? That's saying, "kill me now"

PS: Which one were you? What time in the video?

Holy Moly! Rogue PvP Vid - Watto44 - 05-18-2006

Drasca,May 18 2006, 02:19 AM Wrote:I am some what disappointed by 6th man. While I like that he's facing 2v1 a lot of the time, the competition he faces is sub par.

In that video, I've seen:
Hunters that: Use serpent sting (poison damage) over viper (the mana drain hunter poison) against casters. Didn't' see any trap action from any of those hunters either.
I think the Happiness mechanics for hunter pets should be changed to they never run away even while completely unhappy. That's lower damage, but hunters could actually use their pets in BG this way.
Shaman that use Frost shock or Healing wave instead of earth shock
Priests that don't heal their allies or use mana burn
No pallies, obviously.
Warlocks that don't banish or howl of terror succubi.
Wars/Melee that dont intercept/snare/ bunny hop around the caster, or stand around looking dumb while he runs away even while hamstringed. Were those guys horribly lagged?
Mages are pretty much always owned by the Soul Link / Felhunter pairing, so that's no surprise there.
Lastly, Running away while both are at low health!?!? Epsecially running away as a melee char vs insta dot locks? That's saying, "kill me now"

PS: Which one were you? What time in the video?
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I wasn't in Sixth's vid. I was in Schyla's vid: I was the druid who got hit by his own grenade. :)

edit: I'll have to rewatch Sixth's vid. To be perfectly honest, I don't really watch things for the skills of the player(s). (Unless they are glaringly poor.) I just really enjoyed these flicks, although it definately helps when you recognise people etc. :)

ye edit the second, esq.: In response to some specifics: There were two hunter fights in that vid. The first one did viper sting, the second didn't. However, the second hunter did stumble across him at about 75% hp and 50% mana. (Still, a pretty standard thing to mess up. I'm pretty sure that I know who that hunter was as well, and it's an a-typical mistake from him.)

The Shaman: hehe, this is true. If you look really closely in one shaman + priest fight, after the pair rez the shaman casts stormstrike then frostbolt! Hahaha, I'll have to find out who that was and tease them mecilessly about that. (Damn googlevid's low rez. :( )

The Warriors: Well, the one "standing around" might have been doing that deliberately so the shammy could get some 1-1 time. Given that he didn't even dismount, I figure that's what's going on. As for walking away while hamstringed, there was a strange confluence of things going on there. The warrior was hit with death coil soon after he put the hamstring down, and sixth copped a psychic scream immediately after the death coil landed. :)

Finally, the warlocks: There was only one warlock in the succibus section of that vid and while it's true that he didn't banish or howl sixth's succi away, he did burn rocket helm to med up, re-summon and get the opener in.

On a final note: While I feel it's fair to nit-pick one on one fights - after all, that's a scenario where mistakes really shouldn't be made too often - two on one is a different matter. Unless you have pvped with the other player offen, it's very easy to slip into less than optimal play. Swords get tangled, as it were, and mistakes are made. The fact of the matter is, two players experienced players under "fair" circumstances should never loose to a single player.

In the end it comes down to what you want to watch: a series of duels where optimal play is made and that only resembles world/BG pvp in that two players are fighting, or something a little more entertaining, where mistakes are made that allow against-the-odds fights to come off. (The hamstring/death coil/psychic scream from above is a great example of this sort of thing.) :)

Holy Moly! Rogue PvP Vid - Drasca - 05-19-2006

Watto44,May 17 2006, 07:12 PM Wrote:The fact of the matter is, two players experienced players under "fair" circumstances should never loose to a single player.
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I disagree for two reasons.

1) World PvP is never fair :)
2) Class and Equipment differences are never fair, or fairy nuff.

For example, Soul linked Warlocks + Felhunter owns mages. That's nothing new. I think my record is four mages in a row. One pair of two, then one other, then one who made it back from a ghost. Neither mage damage or magical tricks work on that kind of lock. In retrospect, I cannot judge their skill/ability, but they must've been worse than the great horde mages I've dueled.

Other example, when I saw druid & warrior vs warlock & paladin, the battle was already decided. The druid & warrior don't have enough burst damage or crowd control to kill a high stam warlock backed up by a 4 lives paladin. Normally a tank-healer druid vs tank-healer paladin is a very boring battle. When backed up by a healer, a Warrior is normally a dps machine, but since he can't outdps a pally's heals, and the paladin healer cannot be easily killed either... that battle was pretty much unwinnable for the druid/healer.

Quote:(Damn googlevid's low rez.

Yeah, its hard to tell what's the details of combat are.

Quote:it's very easy to slip into less than optimal play

Still, bad choice after bad choice after bad choice is and winning off the enemy's mistakes is unforgiveable. I'm sympathetic to the lack of pet for hunters in BG, and that timers aren't always up, and things that are out of a enemy player's control. Those things happen, but when I see a video about enemies that fumble, over and over from making horrible decisions, that's not a demonstration of a player's skill. When you show off wins because the other guy tripped, and you aren't doing anything particularly innovative, that just looks pathetic to me.

Quote:I feel it's fair to nit-pick one on one fights - after all, that's a scenario where mistakes really shouldn't be made too often - two on one is a different matter

Yes, I think it is fair to criticize even two on one, having done so myself. Multiple enemies that're poorly equipped and skilled will die to a well trained, well equipped character. That point becomes even more obvious as you see battles with huge level differences. Level 60 char take on a whole party of level 30's without much sweat? Yep. Post 60, the equipment difference is not always so obvious, and skill certainly isn't.

I'm sorry, but this lock just isn't impressed by the misfortune of others. Having seen warriors and rogues pull out crossbows when rooted, or when there's distance and only slivers of health between both opponents, and players winning by the narrowest of margins of skill and prng dice rolls, I expect more.

Have you seen the "nerf firestone" PvP spoof video? That one's a mix of skill, proof of concept, and light comedy rather than "I pwn you" . . . "when you trip over yourselves" which imo is fairly lame. Note, firestone is considered one of the weakest talents around, as it is a conjurable off-hand that cannot hope to scale with equipment or level. However... this guy mades a video having fun with it. Rather than showing off 1k damage as regular blasts that everyone does, he shows off HK's from 25 damage papercuts, and gets excited over a 353 damage crit.

Holy Moly! Rogue PvP Vid - Berkman - 05-19-2006

This movie gets instant thumbs up simply because of the music from the new Tool album.

Holy Moly! Rogue PvP Vid - castille - 05-22-2006

I really wish you could duel two players at once, to get that same feel as you normally do in PvP. I find that as a shadow priest, I may not be able to take down 4 or 5 people, but I can really, really leave them stinging. If I have an ally a step or two behind me, they could probably clean out the group pretty easily.

Holy Moly! Rogue PvP Vid - MongoJerry - 05-22-2006

Quote:I really wish you could duel two players at once, to get that same feel as you normally do in PvP. I find that as a shadow priest, I may not be able to take down 4 or 5 people, but I can really, really leave them stinging. If I have an ally a step or two behind me, they could probably clean out the group pretty easily.

Go to the arena in STV or the "cage" in Gadgetzan. You can set up parties of up to five however you wish.