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Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - Occhidiangela - 06-16-2006

"Curiouser and curiouser," said Alice.

The recent Newsweek article covered the air raid which ended the career of Al Zarqawi. I was involved in similar (and regretably unsuccessful) operations a couple of years ago, and had some mild emotional flashbacks to days and nights trying to "get 'er done" as I read it. While disgusted at the "look how clever we are" comments from government sources (violations of Operational Security) I was taken aback by something discovered in the house where Al Zarqawi was hiding -- when the iron raindrops fell.

Surviving the blast were a few matresses, some "documents," and -- WTF? --

A picture of FDR.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

If it belonged to the owner of the house, why would someone living in the middle of Iraq have a picture of FDR up on the wall? I hadn't heard he was an iconic figure in the Arab world.

If it belonged to Al Zarqawi, why would he carry around a picture of FDR?

For all his strengths and weaknesses in domestic and foreign policy, FDR was an unabashedly globalist American president. (Example: While Assistant Secretary of the Navy, he provided a draft Haitian Constitution (1919) which was implemented at the point of Marine bayonets for about 12 years.)

The present Iraqi strife is in part -- particularly the piece Al Zarqawi played -- a struggle against the "globalist busy body" facet of American invasion and occupation. Taking Al Zarqawi's affiliation with Al Qaeda at face value (even if he embarassed the movement through Muslim-on-Muslim warfare) I can't wrap my brain around that symbol's incongruence: the archetype Globalist American President being held as a token (admired?) by the man leading an explicitly anti-globalist guerilla effort.

It would be similar to Ho Chi Minh keeping a picture of Woodrow Wilson in his pocket. (Wilson snubbed Ho in 1919 during the deliberations leading to the Versailles treaty.)

Was the Newsweek report in error, or are there are stranger threads to the ideological basis of the various resistance groups in Iraq than I could imagine in my wildest, caffeine-induced hallucination? Of course, this is the same Newsweek issue with the article examining whether or not Superman is Jewish or Christian. :blink: Last I checked, he was an extra terrestial . . . from Krypton!

In other weird news, Britanny Spears hired a 28 year old, US Naval Academy alumnus, as "body guard" or "manny" since she is (predictably for the Hollywood crowd) estranged from the father of her children. As an alum of that institution, I would never have considered that career path, not even at gunpoint.

Theory: these are two signs that the Apocalypse is upon us, and that there are 253 charges left in the staff. ;) Or, these are two signs that the world has only gone mad.

The third sign was Senator Clinton's remarks that "pulling out of Iraq is not the wisest course of action." Since when did she hire President Bush's speech writer? :o Four signs left, four more seals to be opened, and it's curtains for the free world, and the rest of the world, all at once.

Or not.

What to do, what to do. :huh:
  1. Look up the guy who used to work for me, who has since become an Evangelical preacher, and ask his advice<>
  2. Sit here, sip my cup of coffee, and wait for the Rapture<>
  3. Put in an order for fish, as they'll soon be boiling in the sea<>
  4. Look out for the bleeding sun and moon, then move to Montana<>
  5. Get me to Nunnery, and quickly!<>
  6. Quit eating spicey chili late in the evening<>
  7. Seek the Cheshire Cat and ask him for answers<>
  8. Throw the TV into the trash<>
    [st]
    What would you do?

    Occhi


Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - ShadowHM - 06-16-2006

I recommend:

9. Cut back on the coffee. ;)

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - eppie - 06-16-2006

Quote:What would you do?

Occhi


Move to Montana....for sure.

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - --Pete - 06-16-2006

Hi,

Quote:If it belonged to Al Zarqawi, why would he carry around a picture of FDR?

. . .

It would be similar to Ho Chi Minh keeping a picture of Woodrow Wilson in his pocket.

Perhaps Ho Chi Minh did. And, in both cases as a reminder of what they hated. After all, hate is a better fuel for action than is ideology.


Quote:What to do, what to do. :huh:
  1. Look up the guy who used to work for me, who has since become an Evangelical preacher, and ask his advice<>
  2. Sit here, sip my cup of coffee, and wait for the Rapture<>
  3. Put in an order for fish, as they'll soon be boiling in the sea<>
  4. Look out for the bleeding sun and moon, then move to Montana<>
  5. Get me to Nunnery, and quickly!<>
  6. Quit eating spicey chili late in the evening<>
  7. Seek the Cheshire Cat and ask him for answers<>
  8. Throw the TV into the trash<>
    [st]
    What would you do?
The Nunnery sounds good, but I'm a little low of energy at the moment;)

If I had my druthers, I'd get a bottle of a nice single malt and watch old Alec Guinness movies. Might not solve all the problems, but it puts them in perspective. :lol:

--Pete

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - Occhidiangela - 06-16-2006

Quote:9. Cut back on the coffee. ;)
Dearest Shadow, that was a party foul, so you must chug! :w00t: (Irish Coffee with Whipped Cream) because
  1. I am not suicidal :P <>
  2. new options were not an option<>
  3. I just had a toasted bagel<>
    [st]
    *sings*
    The blood count in my caffeine stream's too high
    Upon a fresh Cuppa Joe, I shall rely

    Pete:

    The Single Malt, though a good idea, must wait until I get home. Oban shall provide the benediction.

    Good point on the "keep what you hate in front of you, lest you forget to hate it and lose your motivation." I had not considered that, and it makes sense -- certainly more sense that Brittany's "manny."

    eppie:

    While the move to Montana is tempting, the dental floss market seems to be bearish. ;) (Frank Zappa reference) I'll "play these" and stick to Texas for the nonce . . . until Corpus Christi is washed away during this year's Hurricane Season. :blink:

    Occhi


Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - Doc - 06-16-2006

I know new options are frowned upon, but personally, I'd go check out what the catapillar has in his hookah, and then I'd go looking for the Cheshire Cat.

Whooo are yoooou?

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - kandrathe - 06-18-2006

It's the Chili.

What would FDR do?

I would guess sort of like newbs to the Stock Market, terrorists are trying to predict American responses to threat by looking at our past performance. Perhaps all would be nuevo-crusaders should read the complete Oxford 1922 edition of "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom" by T.E. Lawrence.

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - SwissMercenary - 06-18-2006

Quote:It's the Chili.

What would FDR do?

He'd probably try to preserve his eyesight, by not reading past the first paragraph.

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - Occhidiangela - 06-19-2006

Quote:I would guess sort of like newbs to the Stock Market, terrorists are trying to predict American responses to threat by looking at our past performance. Perhaps all would be nuevo-crusaders should read the complete Oxford 1922 edition of "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom" by T.E. Lawrence.
The time to have done that would have been before March of 2003. Lots of guys in uniform have, and had, read that tome (to include me) but I will venture to guess that nearly no one on the policy side, suit and tie side, could be bothered. They doubtless figured the movie -- Lawrence of Arabia -- was good enough to use as a basis for policy.

Occhi

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - Chesspiece_face - 06-19-2006

Quote:The time to have done that would have been before March of 2003. Lots of guys in uniform have, and had, read that tome (to include me) but I will venture to guess that nearly no one on the policy side, suit and tie side, could be bothered. They doubtless figured the movie -- Lawrence of Arabia -- was good enough to use as a basis for policy.

Occhi

i'm not sure that "bothered" is really the right description. We are talking about an administration whose new mouthpiece didn't realize that using the phrase "hug the tar baby" in a press conference could cause some issues.

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - Occhidiangela - 06-20-2006

Quote:i'm not sure that "bothered" is really the right description. We are talking about an administration whose new mouthpiece didn't realize that using the phrase "hug the tar baby" in a press conference could cause some issues.
About time someone used a valid metaphor. Sadly, he wasn't using it in reference to the Iraq mess.

If people can't handle a reference to a well known American folk tale, then they need to get their heads out of their rectums.

I read a lot of the Brer Rabbit and Brer Bear stories as a kid. I took them at face value, as folks stories. I had to be taught by over sensitive morons, years later, that they were offensive to people who were out looking for offense.

"Please, don't throw me in that Briar patch!"

Occhi

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - eppie - 06-20-2006

Quote:"Curiouser and curiouser," said Alice.


Occhi


I should read that book once...a shame I didn't before.
Last year though I have been looking through 'the original keyhole' though.....it was the same day I walked around in the big dining rom (hall) featuring in the Harry Potter movies (which I also didn't see yet at that time)

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - Doc - 06-20-2006

Oh Lawdy Massah, pease, not the briar patch!

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - Chesspiece_face - 06-20-2006

Quote:About time someone used a valid metaphor. Sadly, he wasn't using it in reference to the Iraq mess.

If people can't handle a reference to a well known American folk tale, then they need to get their heads out of their rectums.

I read a lot of the Brer Rabbit and Brer Bear stories as a kid. I took them at face value, as folks stories. I had to be taught by over sensitive morons, years later, that they were offensive to people who were out looking for offense.

"Please, don't throw me in that Briar patch!"

Occhi

I'm not attepting to state that the metaphor wasn't valid. nor was I attempting to state that the only way to look at that quote was in a racial manner.

What i was attempting to point out is that Tony Snow is a PR person for this administration... Public Relations. That is his job. His only job. to take information from the administration and express it in a publicly satisfying way. As a PR person one would think that Snow would have the wherewithal to avoid any statement that could in some way be construed as a racist remark. As an expression of his job and his purpose to the administration it was an absolute and utter failure.

much like the planning for the war in iraq. "not being bothered", to me at least, reflects a moderate level of obtuseness and laziness but doesn't begin to endorse the absolute and utter failure related to the job they were supposed to do.

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - kandrathe - 06-21-2006

Quote:...wherewithal to avoid any statement that could in some way be construed as a racist remark. As an expression of his job and his purpose to the administration it was an absolute and utter failure.
...
Yes, we must acknowledge and accept the utter ignorance of the press and American populace. We should excise any potentially misconstruable sentence structures containing words from our language that bigots have co-opted for racist purposes.
  • any literary references (e.g. uncle tom's cabin, Brer Rabbit, etc...) to African American folktales or any ethnic folktales<>
  • any use of the word niggardly (sounds too much like that other "n" word <>
  • no more "chink in the armor" <>
  • no more references to "spic-n-span" <>
  • no more use of "cheesy crackers" or cracker references of any kind<>
    [st] Allowances must be made for the ignorant who refuse to learn the language. By all means we should have a PR secretary who buys into the PC chic of dancing on egg shells giving the press lip service saying nothing, rather than being direct and honest speaking from the heart.


Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - Occhidiangela - 06-21-2006

Quote:I'm not attepting to state that the metaphor wasn't valid. nor was I attempting to state that the only way to look at that quote was in a racial manner.

What i was attempting to point out is that Tony Snow is a PR person for this administration... Public Relations. That is his job. His only job. to take information from the administration and express it in a publicly satisfying way. As a PR person one would think that Snow would have the wherewithal to avoid any statement that could in some way be construed as a racist remark. As an expression of his job and his purpose to the administration it was an absolute and utter failure.

much like the planning for the war in iraq. "not being bothered", to me at least, reflects a moderate level of obtuseness and laziness but doesn't begin to endorse the absolute and utter failure related to the job they were supposed to do.
Please take a long walk off of a short pier.

Jimmy Carter, President, on a cool day in February when Emperor Hirohito was due to visit, was awaiting the emperor at National Airport. He remarked that there was a nip in the air. It was covered.

That was funny, not a cause to rend garments and gnash teeth.

Get it?

Or do you choose to be wilfully obtuse? Don't be so bleeding sensitive.

Occhi

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - Chesspiece_face - 06-21-2006

Quote:Please take a long walk off of a short pier.

Don't be so bleeding sensitive.

Occhi

Saying that i'm able to express my view without the use of insults i'd say you might want to take a bit of your own advice.

where's Ghostiger when you need him?

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - Chesspiece_face - 06-21-2006

Quote: By all means we should have a PR secretary who buys into the PC chic of dancing on egg shells giving the press lip service saying nothing, rather than being direct and honest speaking from the heart.

Before i respond to the rest of your post let me note a bit of irony.

When Tony Snow made the "Tar Baby" comment was he:
A. Being direct and honest.
B. Dancing on egg shells. (political ones at least)
C. Giving the press lip service.
D. Saying Nothing.
E. B,C, and D.

The whole context of why he used the metaphor was because he wasn't being direct and honest!

As for the main topic of your post. Are there people in america that are ignorant of the origins of the term and that metaphor specifically? sure are. There are probably a great deal of people that only know of that term because of it's aqcuired racial significance. And because of that when they hear the press secretary saying it they are going to take offense. It doesn't matter whether there is validity to their offense or whether they should just go educate themselves more to the meaning of the term. As a PR person, in general, and more specifically as one at that level of the game, you should know better. If you foresee yourself saying something that might be construed in a bad way you need to "lock it up".

Here's exactly what Tony Snow said: "Having said that, I don't want to hug the tar baby of trying to comment on the program"

Now for anyone thinking of going into PR (or if Tony Snow happens to be reading) here's a quick tip. Cut out the tar baby comment. What do you have left? "Having said that, i don't want to comment on the program" Exact same end result and you save yourself from people misconstruing your remarks as racist.

lastly let me jump away from your specific topic and address something Occhi has said. Namely that i'm gnashing my teeth at this whole Tony Snow thing. I'm not. I find it absolutely hilarious. But the reason i find it hilarious is because I always have a tendency towards amusement when people of supposed high regard and stature fall face first into a giant steaming pile of manure. As well as the ironic factor that Snow is a public relations person and, as i maintain, this comment was a complete failure at relating to the public. you can't choose your public (well not unless you are setting up a Bush town hall meeting) and as such, if a decent proportion of your public only has experience with a certain phrase in racist context it would be a good idea to stay away from that phrase.

Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - kandrathe - 06-21-2006

Quote:Here's exactly what Tony Snow said: "Having said that, I don't want to hug the tar baby of trying to comment on the program"

Now for anyone thinking of going into PR (or if Tony Snow happens to be reading) here's a quick tip. Cut out the tar baby comment. What do you have left? "Having said that, i don't want to comment on the program" Exact same end result and you save yourself from people misconstruing your remarks as racist.
Not exactly. He was saying "I think that to comment further would put me to bat on a sticky wicket." Of course, not being British, and that American's haven't a clue about cricket he used the American colloquialism. I see a difference between "I don't want to comment" and "I don't want to comment because I'll get into hot water." In essence, he is trying to communicate that he's gone as close to the edge as he is comfortable standing on the topic. I think that is far different than "I don't want to answer your question".


Strange Brew, Non Sequitur - Occhidiangela - 06-21-2006

Quote:Saying that i'm able to express my view without the use of insults i'd say you might want to take a bit of your own advice.

where's Ghostiger when you need him?
Thank you for missing the point twice. Kandrathe covered the nuances.

Occhi