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+--- Thread: Official expansion talent previews (/thread-3965.html)
Official expansion talent previews - Legedi - 08-28-2006
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrus...and-spells.html
Love the protection talents for warriors. Haven't looked at much else.
Official expansion talent previews - Ashock - 08-28-2006
Quote:http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrus...and-spells.html
Love the protection talents for warriors. Haven't looked at much else.
Precision is nice. Too bad it AND MS are 30 pt talents, thereby making having both of them impossible. Bleh.
Edit: Heh, Blizz just moved TM to Prot, so this is a completely moot point. Even a bigger Bleh.
Editx2: Even better. With TM now in Prot, no Flurry and MS.... or no 5 pts in TM.
-A
Official expansion talent previews - Xanthix - 08-28-2006
Precision would be nice if it was tier 2 or 3, not tier 7 for crying out loud.
Devastate is a major let-down. Warriors have not had a compelling reason to spec Protection since release, and the best they can come up with is Improved-Improved-Sunder-Armor?
I can see that Arms and Fury tanking will still beat out heavy-Prot tanking in the expansion. A little more damage mitigation from Shield Mastery and Improved Def Stance does not at all make up for all the increased damage and threat you can get from the other trees.
The only cool thing I can see deep in Prot is Focused Rage, but that depends what they consider "offensive ability" to mean. Even if it means all attacks, it is hardly reason to go 31 prot and rule out Mortal Strike/Bloodthirst.
All I can say is, I hope in the new 25-man raids that Concussion Blow, Revenge's stun, and Shield Bash's silence actually do anything. Otherwise there is no reason to go past 15-20 points in prot, ever. Not for tanking, not for DPS, and certainly not for PvP.
Official expansion talent previews - lemekim - 08-28-2006
<rant-ish>
I think if protection warriors actually had a role in PvP, these changes wouldn't be such a big deal, and in fact would be mostly welcome. PvE (Protection) specced Warrior is useless in PvP, and that's why a lot of Warriors go for DPS, as currently, there is pretty much little else that they can bring to the table in PvP (Mortal Strike debuff being the one 31-point exception).
Priests or Paladins or Shamans who spec for PvE can also be quite good in PvP - at least in groups (in solo PvP, they are not nearly as strong, but hey, neither are Warriors). Good healing is one of the cornerstones of a good group. If Protection Warriors could actually PROTECT in PvP, I can guarantee that we wouldn't see nearly as many complaints about Warrior DPS nerfs or whatnot. As it stands, Warrior is one of the worst classes at protecting his healers, leading to the common sight of Warriors running around mindlessly on the battlefield, trying to rake up as many kills as possible - there is little else they can do.
If Blizzard wants to nerf Warrior DPS, I think a lot of people could live with it, but if, and only if, they are given another utility - for example, actually protecting people in PvP. There is one new ability that works along those lines - Intervene (http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/spells-3411-intervene.html), but Warriors need more of such abilities to make Protection useful in PvP.
</rant-ish>
Official expansion talent previews - Ashock - 08-28-2006
Quote:<rant-ish>
I think if protection warriors actually had a role in PvP, these changes wouldn't be such a big deal, and in fact would be mostly welcome. PvE (Protection) specced Warrior is useless in PvP, and that's why a lot of Warriors go for DPS, as currently, there is pretty much little else that they can bring to the table in PvP (Mortal Strike debuff being the one 31-point exception).
Priests or Paladins or Shamans who spec for PvE can also be quite good in PvP - at least in groups (in solo PvP, they are not nearly as strong, but hey, neither are Warriors). Good healing is one of the cornerstones of a good group. If Protection Warriors could actually PROTECT in PvP, I can guarantee that we wouldn't see nearly as many complaints about Warrior DPS nerfs or whatnot. As it stands, Warrior is one of the worst classes at protecting his healers, leading to the common sight of Warriors running around mindlessly on the battlefield, trying to rake up as many kills as possible - there is little else they can do.
If Blizzard wants to nerf Warrior DPS, I think a lot of people could live with it, but if, and only if, they are given another utility - for example, actually protecting people in PvP. There is one new ability that works along those lines - Intervene (http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/spells-3411-intervene.html), but Warriors need more of such abilities to make Protection useful in PvP.
</rant-ish>
My issue is not really with the new warrior talents, but with the fact that we basically got crap compared to some other classes. Also, the 40 pt. talents are useless.
-A
Official expansion talent previews - Brista - 08-28-2006
Quote:http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrus...and-spells.html
Love the protection talents for warriors. Haven't looked at much else.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classe...512023300531051
That's my Blood Elf Pally levelling build :w00t:
Official expansion talent previews - lemekim - 08-28-2006
Quote:My issue is not really with the new warrior talents, but with the fact that we basically got crap compared to some other classes. Also, the 40 pt. talents are useless.I know what you mean, as I have a warrior as well. I just think that if Protection had some other utility outside of pure PvE, the atrocities from Fury/Arms tree that 41 point talents are (and new talents overall) would be a bit less insulting, as we would have a fairly improved Protection tree to look forward to. For those who might disagree with my choice of words, just look at Deathwish - right now, a 21 point talent is better than both Arms/Fury 41 point talents combined.
-A
Official expansion talent previews - TheWesson - 08-28-2006
As for the the new Warlock spells -- wow!
50% Threat Reduction (takes shard)
Soulwell - everybody can walk up and get a Healthstone (takes shard)
Seed of Corruption - Shadow AoE (yay)
oh and from elsewhere debuff slots raised to 40.
This is really Christmas for Warlocks ...
ps Dark Pact is being boosted to drain 700 mana at highest level (yay) Actually this is a phenomenal upgrade overall for Affliction locks like myself ...
Official expansion talent previews - Brista - 08-28-2006
Quote:http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrus...and-spells.html
Love the protection talents for warriors. Haven't looked at much else.
Had a look at the rogue talents, wasn't too impressed with the new ones. However the old ones are very good and 61 points to spend is great
Here's my combat swords build
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classe...000000000000000
Official expansion talent previews - Chesspiece_face - 08-28-2006
Quote:http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classe...in/talents.html
That's my Blood Elf Pally levelling build :w00t:
I think that will be everyone's BE leveling build... at least until they hit 10. :P
Official expansion talent previews - Warlock - 08-28-2006
Looks like I'm the only one that actually likes the new warrior skills and talents.
Some great skills:
clickable +5% crit for 30 sec after a kill
+730 health shout buff
Spell reflection
Intervene (defensive intercept)
Some talents that I like:
-6% spell damage taken
+30% shield block value
Devastate (instant, damaging, high threat, no cooldown, keeps sunder up)
The Arms 41 pointer doesn't impress. Free moves for 10 seconds, but needs 30 rage to use in the first place and it's on a 5 minute cool.
Official expansion talent previews - Warlock - 08-28-2006
Looks like there will be a few more pets around too. Shamans get a fire elemental as a skill, Mages a Water one by speccing for it.
Official expansion talent previews - TheWesson - 08-28-2006
Quote:Looks like there will be a few more pets around too. Shamans get a fire elemental as a skill, Mages a Water one by speccing for it.
and the Warlock's 41-pt talented pet, the Fel Guard
Official expansion talent previews - oldmandennis - 08-28-2006
Quote:The Arms 41 pointer doesn't impress. Free moves for 10 seconds, but needs 30 rage to use in the first place and it's on a 5 minute cool.
I think it sounds great. At about 25% pop an insane strength potion, a trinket, then pop your talent, and go MS slam slam slam MS slam in ten seconds for a gazillion damage to push it into execute range.
Official expansion talent previews - Xanthix - 08-29-2006
Quote:The Arms 41 pointer doesn't impress. Free moves for 10 seconds, but needs 30 rage to use in the first place and it's on a 5 minute cool.
That talent seems okay, but not worthy of the 41-point slot. Priests have Inner Focus that gives them a similar bonus. Inner Focus only gives one free spell, but costs no mana itself (the warrior talent requires 30 rage), is on a 3-minute cooldown (not 5), and is available in the third tier (not the eighth!)
Official expansion talent previews - Warlock - 08-29-2006
Quote:I think it sounds great. At about 25% pop an insane strength potion, a trinket, then pop your talent, and go MS slam slam slam MS slam in ten seconds for a gazillion damage to push it into execute range.
Good point. Hmmm, some possibilites here. For the same cost as MS you get a MS and as many other moves as you can fit in the duration. A bunch of free Executes wouldn't be a bad choice either (presumably these would work like clearcast Ferocious Bites - the base move is free and all rage converts to damage).
Overall I expected the Warrior to gain less than other classes because it's so strong now, with the improvements to the class focused mainly on protection. Those are still some very nice abilities. Can't wait to see the Druid set.
Official expansion talent previews - lfd - 08-29-2006
Quote:Inner Focus only gives one free spell, but costs no mana itself (the warrior talent requires 30 rage), is on a 3-minute cooldown (not 5), and is available in the third tier (not the eighth!)
Sounds fair to me - more accessible but only one spell, as opposed to 10 seconds of free abilities at a cost of 30 rage.
Official expansion talent previews - Xanthix - 08-29-2006
Quote:Sounds fair to me - more accessible but only one spell, as opposed to 10 seconds of free abilities at a cost of 30 rage.
I guess my point is that it didn't feel like a very new or exciting 41-point talent. When I think of 31 or 41 point talents, I think of "exciting" talents like Shadowform or Moonkin or Arcane Power. In contrast, I think of talents that simply reduce mana/power costs or casting times as mid-level utility talents.
For example Inner Focus is great, but I would not be thrilled if we had it instead of Power Infusion. Presence of Mind is a great talent, but it seems more like a mid-tier talent than a 31-point capstone.
In this sense, all three 41-point warrior talents strike me as unexciting compared to other classes' new abilities. Warlocks get a new minion, mages can breathe fire, rogues get spell immunity, and paladins get a multi-target ranged damage/snare spell. Meanwhile warriors get an upgrade for Sunder Armor, an attack power booster that is weaker than the Crusader enchantment, and 10 seconds of free spells every 5 minutes.
The new warrior skills are great, but the talents are all ho-hum in my opinion.
Official expansion talent previews - Monkey - 08-29-2006
Quote:In this sense, all three 41-point warrior talents strike me as unexciting compared to other classes' new abilities. Warlocks get a new minion, mages can breathe fire, rogues get spell immunity, and paladins get a multi-target ranged damage/snare spell. Meanwhile warriors get an upgrade for Sunder Armor, an attack power booster that is weaker than the Crusader enchantment, and 10 seconds of free spells every 5 minutes.
Warriors, being the most gear-reliant class, are likely to have underwhelming talents; Blizzard will make up for it by adding crazy weapons and armor and people will cry 'nerf warriors' before you know it. Although, I don't find these talents underwhelming:
In the Arms Tree: Geez, buff arms warriors much? Improved Disciplines is nuts, Second Wind sets the warrior up to use his 41-point ability, and Blood Frenzy gives you 5% more damage for 12 seconds after a crit OR 21 seconds after a Rend--Blood frenzy gives you a melee-only version of the pally 41-retribution talent for 10 rage without a cooldown. And 10 seconds of free abilities is pretty sweet to cap it all.
In the Fury Tree: Improved Berserker Rage is pretty sweet since it scales and Precision gives more gear options. The rest feels like Bloodthirst to me; Something that you're going to have to know when to use to make it work. Rampage is actually almost exactly like Crusader in benefit, depending on weapon speed and the distribution of successful melee swings.
I did a few back-of-the-envelope calcuations based on a model of regularly distributed successful melee swings: With that assumption, Rampage increases attack power in a linear fashion over time until it reaches APmax. If it takes N seconds to reach APmax, then you can model it as 0.5APmax over N seconds followed by APmax for (30-N) seconds. So even for N = 30, you'll see 100AP over 30 seconds at level 70. That's not too shabby, but it requires that you time Rampage correctly to get the maximum benefit.
In the Protection Tree: Improved Defensive Stance is something that has been missing from this tree for a while and the Lounge has already discussed Vitality. The 41-point talent is kind of cool depending on the amount of extra threat actually generated...But where's the 'Improved Intervene' Talent? Protection warriors really need some PvP options and that's one ability that's screaming out for a talent slot in Tier 7 or 8; make it a 3-point talent that lets you intercept additional 1/2/3 attacks against a friendly target.
Official expansion talent previews - Lissa - 08-29-2006
Quote:As for the the new Warlock spells -- wow!
50% Threat Reduction (takes shard)
Soulwell - everybody can walk up and get a Healthstone (takes shard)
Seed of Corruption - Shadow AoE (yay)
oh and from elsewhere debuff slots raised to 40.
This is really Christmas for Warlocks ...
ps Dark Pact is being boosted to drain 700 mana at highest level (yay) Actually this is a phenomenal upgrade overall for Affliction locks like myself ...
I disagree. Blizzard continues to not understand the mechanics and problems behind the soloing and raiding Warlock. The biggest problems Warlocks face is threat at all times, not the ability to get rid of half of it once every 5 minutes. While the addition of threat reduction to Imp Drain Soul and Destructive Reach (why Imp DS I have no clue, or even why the talent still exists) it is not enough. They are forcing Warlocks to get MD and have Imps out if they want better than 10% threat reduction. This does not lead to an expanded play style, but a pigeon holing build.
I can only hope that there will be a true Talent review for Warlocks and Warriors prior to BC coming out and we (Warlocks and Warriors) get a chance to argue against some of the changes they're making. (Why is Curse of Exhaustion still a talent based Curse when it should be normal repetoire? Why is the talents for CoW and CoA still split off as seperate talents, there should be one all encompassing talent that boosts all curses by a specific amount. Why does Imp Corruption still exist when Corruption should be made instant much like Arcane Explosion was? Blizzard's developers just don't understand the inner workings of the Warlock in a solo environment and a raiding environment.)