Quote:During a speech on Tuesday at a German university, the pope quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th century Byzantine Christian emperor Manuel Paleologos II and a Persian scholar on the truths of Christianity and Islam. "The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the pope said. "He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached'." Benedict did not explicitly agree with the words nor repudiate them, but went on to say that "violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul". The Vatican said the pope did not intend the remarks to be offensive, but sought to draw attention to the incompatibility of faith and violence. From Aljazeera.net

Quote:"These Christians are all infidels. Benedict himself is an infidel and a blind man. Doesn't he see that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and other places were waged by Christians?"

Quote:[imagine]http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20060911/ltr060911.gif[/imagine]

Quote: And you get reactions from people like; ...and Catholic churches are firebombed in Gaza and the West Bank. I just get worried when the tinder is so dry that a spark like a Danish Cartoon, or a reference to a conversation from 600 years ago can ignite WW4. I also came upon another interesting site, JihadWatch.Org, in my research here.

Quote:... because they only read the quote that has been stripped out of context...

Quote:My view of the average middle eastern muslim (or their son) is...

I see it as a continuation of a 1500 year trend.

Quote:Nor are they the only players in the current game.

Quote:I think a lot of the Turks are probably miffed that he referred to "Constantinople". Apparently the Pope isn't up to date on his They Might Be Giants, either. :P

Quote:Scary thought: does suicide bombing extend to nuclear war?

Quote:I saw this movie once, I don't remember anything about it except the terrorist in the movie had a small-scale nuclear bomb attached to his persona and was suffering from massive radiation poisioning before he had even reached his destination. I don't recall if the bomb went off or not in the movie, but I belive there probbably are - but have never heard of - detectors in place in the US for such high levels of radioactivity, not only for nuclear bombs smuggled into the country, but for our safety.

Quote:I see it as a bunch of really stupid sheep, goats, and other herd animals being maneuvered about by a group of Islamist dogs. A key sheparding practice is to vigorously limit the terms and language of the public dialogue.

"Beware of the power of stupid people in large groups."

The Muslims are not the first, nor will they be the last, to play this game. Nor are they the only players in the current game.

Occhi

Quote:First of all to the question; if they can justify blowing themselves up on a bus to kill a dozen women and children...

So, why do you think they would target the US first? And, I would think there would be other symbolic targets that would be easier, and would bring the weak of heart to at least claim neutrality. I would think getting close would be good enough. I would think Toronto, Vancouver, or Tijuana would be close enough, easier, and still effective if your goal is "Terror". How hard would it be to get a ship loaded with a shielded one into the Chesapeake Bay, or into the Gulf of Mexico when the prevailing winds were just right?

a number of news source Wrote:Five churches attacked in Palestinian areas following Pope's comments on Islam ALI DARAGHMEH NABLUS, West Bank (AP)
- Palestinians wielding guns and firebombs attacked five churches in the West Bank and Gaza on Saturday, following remarks by Pope Benedict that angered many Muslims. No injuries were reported in the attacks, which left church doors charred and walls pockmarked with bullet holes and scorched by firebombs. Churches of various denominations were targeted.

Quote:Like I said, just looking for an excuse to attack via symbol, in this case the Pope as a symbol of Christians, irrespective of sect.

GRis: Constantinople was the name of IStanbul in the 1400s, and I suspect the Pope is more interested in keeping in good terms with the Patriarchs than with Muslims or Turks. It was a Christian citry for about five centuries longer than it has been a Muslim city. Given some Muslims desire to reclaim all land once under the rule of Islam, such as Al Andalus and much of the Balkans, I heartily approve of his use of the archaic term. He is well within his right to say whatever he damned well pleases. His intent was not to harm, but to open the door. I find his apology a mark of cowardice, and a play into the hands of those in the Muslim world who wish to censor free speech in lands beyond their own.

For that, I'd gladly go to war. Screw the oil, and screw the WMD. You want to tell me what I can or can't say? Those are fighting words.

Occhi

Quote:Hizbullah called on the Vatican to review the pope's "declared attitude which can lead to world divisions and from which the enemies of humanity - the neo-conservatives led by (US President George W.) Bush and the neo-racists and Nazis, the Zionists who attack civilians and the land - can benefit.” "We will blow up all of Gaza’s churches"

Quote: How hard would it be to get a ship loaded with a shielded one into the Chesapeake Bay, or into the Gulf of Mexico when the prevailing winds were just right?

Quote:How hard would it be to get a ship loaded with a shielded one into the Chesapeake Bay, or into the Gulf of Mexico when the prevailing winds were just right?

Quote: So... When these guys get their 72 virgins or whatever when they die, how come there is not an explicit statement of what KIND of virgins they get?

Quote:Well actually quite hard.
The whole fact with this muslim crazyness is that we have some countries that are terribly underdeveloped, but at the same time continuously in contact with 'westerners' which they will probably all call christians (these oldfashioned societies don't even consider not being religious...just as in europe 500 years ago).
Thes people (and that is the most important thing) have nothing to lose. And if you have nothing to lose it is very easy to behave like a moron....what do you care. And remember that there is nothing that gives people such a good feeling than a nice riot against 'them'.

Anyway, if some kind of war would break out (muslims against the rest of the world) it would take the west 47 seconds to destroy their 'armies' so we don't have anything to be scared of.
And seeing as the worst strategy now is to start using violence ourselves (the enormous increase in thread after the US invaded Iraq is a good example of that). If you create a large scale conflict you force people to make a choice....and I can tell you one thing; every non violent well educated muslim will chose the side of the muslims (I mean think about what you would do yourself in such a situation).

So just let the pope apologize so that those guys stop there rioting. At a certain point they will reealize the pointlessness of their behaviour, and hopefully start thinking about creating a developed society as well.
If only they realize that religion should not be part of that. But that might be difficult...they even think the pope speaks for all of us, while in reality he just speaks for some italian octogenarians, and everybody else thinks he is crazy.:D