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The Last Jedi (spoilers will be here, you have been warned) - Lissa - 01-12-2018
So, what are people's general take on this? I'm disappointed with Rian Johnson has wrote. Rian Johnson is a good director, but his writing here was not good.
I think the biggest problem that causes a number of problems with the film is the amount of time between it and The Force Awakens. This is the first episodic film where there hasn't been some kind of time passage (ANH to ESB was 2 to 3 years, ESB to RotJ was 2 year, TPM to AotC was 10 years and AotC to RotS was 3 or so years as Clone Wars takes place between AotC and RotS). The time between TFA and TLJ is a matter of hours to a day at most. This causes several issue:
1) How did Finn heal up so quickly between the end of TFA and the start of TLJ. Bacta isn't some super healing material as it's well known that Luke was laid up for a week or so after the Wampa smacked him up side the head and his exposure yet Finn is back up and no worse for wear in hours given that Kylo almost killed him with the strike to Finn's back, doesn't make a lot of sense.
2) The training montage between Rey and Luke is so short compared with Luke's training with Yoda. Given, Rey is a Mary Sue (and Anakin in TPM was a Gary Stu), but really we needed more time passage.
3) 16 hours of fuel for the hyperdrive/regular engines seems really too low for a ship the size of the Raddus. Even if the First Order couldn't track them, they'd be dropping out of hyperspace to get fuel way too often.
Next up is the vast change in character's from TFA to TLJ (as well as prior trilogy).
1) Hux went from being a conniving menace to comic relief, this was a terrible decision.
2) Phasma was wasted yet again even though Gwedilon Christie said she worked with Rian to have more of a story for her.
3) No expansion on Snoke and the fact that he could read Rey's thoughts and ideas, but couldn't recognize that Kylo was setting up Anakin's/Luke's lightsaber to kill him.
4) Luke being in despair and thinking that killing his nephew instead of trying to save him makes any sense (really gives new meaning to Mark Hamill's comment of this being more like Jake Skywalker than Luke Skywalker).
5) There was no need for Laura Dern's character, it could have been done better by having Akbar somewhere else on the Raddus and performing the action that Holdo took of self sacrifice and it would have been a better send off for Akbar than how he went out.
6) Leia showing a force power that makes no sense to force powers she's shown in the past (her force powers have been sensory based, so having her somehow protect herself against vacuum to allow her to get back into the ship). When the scene happened, I immediately went to Guarians of the Galaxy Vol 2 when Yondu yells, "I'M MARY POPPINS YA'LL!"
7) Rose just wasn't an interesting character. I like Kelly Marie Tran, but the character was just poorly written and the arc between Rose and Finn was just bad. I would have rather seen Billie Lourd's Lt. Connix be here and it could have been a better choice as she was already introduced and they could have used this to expand on her character instead of having her be part of Poe's mutineers against Holdo.
Then there was the logic issues that were in the movie as well.
1) Why didn't the First Order immediately launch fighters when they hyperspaced in at the Resistance base planet.
2) The whole comedity bit between Poe and Hux and the First Order.
3) Fuel issues with the Resistance "Fleet".
4) Bombs that use gravity. A simple fix with the bombers would have been to have the bombs have like a thruster to show why they go the direction the go in space.
5) Holdo keeping information on what is going on from Poe given he's one of the highest ranking officers the Resistance has at that point. Yet, it would have wiped ot the Canto Bight line, but really, that line could have been removed without hurting the movie.
6) Why didn't part of the First Order fleet do a micro jump to just in front of the Raddus or have another fleet jump in in front of Raddus to set up a pincer.
7) With the damage that the Raddus did to Snoke's flag ship and the Star Destroyers behind Snoke's ship in the path the Raddus took on it's hyperspace suicide ram, why haven't the First Order and Resistance created Correllian Corvette size ram ships (just a hyperdiver engine with maneuvering engines to be used on other capitol ships considering we know that Star Destroyer and Mon Calamari Cruiser hangers are big enough to hold something this size while still having other fighters inside).
Now, there were aspects that I liked in the movie, but more than anything, it disappointed me because of the above reasons.
RE: The Last Jedi (spoilers will be here, you have been warned) - Bolty - 01-12-2018
Not to disparage your argument - you're correct on all counts - but I enjoyed TLJ because I knew it was a Star Wars movie going in, so I turned my brain off.
I'm not sure what people expect out of these movies. I came to see badass moments like Luke getting blasted to smithereens (supposedly) and coming out of the smoke just standing there like nothing happened. That was awesome. I came to see Finn battle Brienne from Game of Thrones. That was also awesome. I hope they bring her (meaningless) character back because she's fun. Evil for the sake of evil, no explanation or backstory needed.
Turn your brain off and just enjoy the ride, man.
If you think about ANY Star Wars movie, you'll realize none of them make sense and you quite possibly think differently about the originals because you were a kid when you first saw them. When you're a kid, you don't think about how a tribe of cuddly teddy bears took out a full legion of stormtroopers.
RE: The Last Jedi (spoilers will be here, you have been warned) - Lissa - 01-13-2018
(01-12-2018, 10:15 PM)Bolty Wrote: Not to disparage your argument - you're correct on all counts - but I enjoyed TLJ because I knew it was a Star Wars movie going in, so I turned my brain off.
I'm not sure what people expect out of these movies. I came to see badass moments like Luke getting blasted to smithereens (supposedly) and coming out of the smoke just standing there like nothing happened. That was awesome. I came to see Finn battle Brienne from Game of Thrones. That was also awesome. I hope they bring her (meaningless) character back because she's fun. Evil for the sake of evil, no explanation or backstory needed.
Turn your brain off and just enjoy the ride, man.
Thing is, this is one of the few Star Wars movies I came out of immediately disappointed by what I had seen. Hell I liked The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones initially, then thought about it and realized they weren't good later. I went into The Last Jedi and was immediately disappointed. Was the Luke bit cool with the walkers, sure, was the bit where Poe was blowing up the deck guns of the dreadnought also cool, yes, was the hyperspace suicide run cool, yes, but there was just so much that didn't hit and was disappointing. Rian Johnson's humor just did not land in most cases in the movie (the only comedic timing items that hit were Chewie trying to eat the roasted Porg and when Rey cuts the boulder in half and it crushes the caretakers' wheel barrow and how they look up and Rey shrinks).
If I were to put the Star Wars movies in order I would go:
1) Empire
2) Hope
3) Rogue One
4) Force
5) Return
6) Revenge
7) Phatnom (because of Duel of Fates bit)
8) Last Jedi
9) Attack
RE: The Last Jedi (spoilers will be here, you have been warned) - Taem - 01-13-2018
(01-13-2018, 12:12 AM)Lissa Wrote:(01-12-2018, 10:15 PM)Bolty Wrote: Not to disparage your argument - you're correct on all counts - but I enjoyed TLJ because I knew it was a Star Wars movie going in, so I turned my brain off.
I'm not sure what people expect out of these movies. I came to see badass moments like Luke getting blasted to smithereens (supposedly) and coming out of the smoke just standing there like nothing happened. That was awesome. I came to see Finn battle Brienne from Game of Thrones. That was also awesome. I hope they bring her (meaningless) character back because she's fun. Evil for the sake of evil, no explanation or backstory needed.
Turn your brain off and just enjoy the ride, man.
Thing is, this is one of the few Star Wars movies I came out of immediately disappointed by what I had seen. Hell I liked The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones initially, then thought about it and realized they weren't good later. I went into The Last Jedi and was immediately disappointed. Was the Luke bit cool with the walkers, sure, was the bit where Poe was blowing up the deck guns of the dreadnought also cool, yes, was the hyperspace suicide run cool, yes, but there was just so much that didn't hit and was disappointing. Rian Johnson's humor just did not land in most cases in the movie (the only comedic timing items that hit were Chewie trying to eat the roasted Porg and when Rey cuts the boulder in half and it crushes the caretakers' wheel barrow and how they look up and Rey shrinks).
If I were to put the Star Wars movies in order I would go:
1) Empire
2) Hope
3) Rogue One
4) Force
5) Return
6) Revenge
7) Phatnom (because of Duel of Fates bit)
8) Last Jedi
9) Attack
IDK, if you can get over the absolute retarded romance and death of Padame and how Anakin went stupid upset, the story isn't have bad. However to fully appreciate it, it takes some leaps of faith to assume major parts of the story aren't being told.
Regarding Anakin's descent to the dark side, I just assume the Emperor was influencing his mind with negative energy and causing him to have those visions, and that they were far worse than what was shown in the movies. Combined with his confusion as the emperor clouded his reason, he couldn't tell what was right or wrong and just put his faith and trust in the emperor at that point, who pretty much guided his actions.
Keeping this in mind, I also assume Anakin force choked Padame in such a way as to crush her trachea, and the healing bots simply couldn't repair to the damage due to the force energy (midichlorians) interfering with their instruments.
Taking these two points into consideration, it's not that far fetched to think that perhaps there was much political, behind-the-scenes mumbo jumbo that would have bogged down the movie that was left out which could have must better explained some of the political and diplomatic blunders in that movie. So yeah, as Bolty said, you have to shut off the logic part of your brain to enjoy it, or as I do, find a way to justify it to make sense. Once you do so, I think you'll find the lightsabre duels to be very exciting, and the story to be fluid. What more could you ask for from a Star Wars movie? Keeping all of this in mind, I actually think the 3rd movie is one of my favorites.
Having said all that, I actually walked out of the theater for this latest movie when Rey saw the tree. I was like, omfg, no originality anymore. Too much nostalgia! First we have a super death star in the other new movie and a virtual clone of A New Hope, then we have recycled elements from Empire which should have been a completely new story. I was done with it, and I left the theater. IMHO, the last two Star Wars movies are the worst ever made.
RE: The Last Jedi (spoilers will be here, you have been warned) - FireIceTalon - 01-13-2018
Kind of have to agree with Bolty here. Although one can argue there is certainly political undertones in the Star Wars series (for example, its been often said to have anti-fascist themes, and there are examples of various kinds of class struggle), it isn't a movie that I watch for intellectual purposes (even if it can be analyzed as such), like I would say, The Matrix - which has very obvious and strong anti-capitalist themes. I watch such films for the characters, plot, action/effects and entertainment.
I enjoyed TLJ overall. Has a very "Empire Strikes Back" feel to it, and it was much superior to The Force Awakens IMO. The scene where Rey and Kylo Ren kill Snoke, I honestly thought maybe, just MAYBE, he was going to come over to the light.....a similar scene to Luke/Vader's fight in ROTJ, but with a crazier plot twist.
Although not the best Star Wars movie, it is far from being the worst. It's way better than any Episodes 1-3, easily. The Force Awakens is as well, though it doesnt touch Episodes 4-6 or TLJ.
RE: The Last Jedi (spoilers will be here, you have been warned) - Lissa - 01-14-2018
Bolty, I think the big problem I had is I wanted to go into TLJ with my brain shutoff, but Rian Johnson basically didn't allow that with shades of things going on now. He put in plots in the movie that mirrored the situation we're dealing with today. I guess I don't have the ability to not completely shut off my brain and what I wanted a sci-fantasy setting and go something with shades of today.
I think this video, , really marks my issues seen in Episode 8 especially. TLJ just kind of meandered and did not feel like one cohesive movie, but instead three short stories thrown together. I don't know if you saw Dunkirk, but I'm reminded of Nolan's way he built Dunkirk, but brought all the threads together in the end into a cohesive story where as TLJ didn't feel cohesive in the end.
RE: The Last Jedi (spoilers will be here, you have been warned) - Sir_Die_alot - 01-18-2018
I think the problem here isn't that Bolty is wrong, it wasn't a bad movie on just the merits of the movie. As a stand alone action pew pew laz0rz movie it was well done. The problem is it was a bad Star Wars movie. The scene where Luke throws his lightsaber over the shoulder is a great metaphor for what Disney has done with the franchise: "Screw the past." A Star Wars movie is suppose to take the story thus far and further it. Not shit-can everything and start over. Lissa's critiques are valid, but only in that context. Even the "I have a bad feeling about this" that EVERY movie has had, just because, was absent. Good movie. Bad Star Wars movie.
In me they lost a really dedicated fan. Now, like Luke, I just don't care anymore.
RE: The Last Jedi (spoilers will be here, you have been warned) - Occhidiangela - 03-20-2018
My son and I enjoyed the movie.
But we rolled our eyes a lot.
Bolty, amen to your post with one exception.
I was old enough when Return of the Jedi came out that the teddy bear battalions made me want to weep in frustration. they screwed up a passably decent movie with that.
PS: hello everyone. Hope you are all well.