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On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - kandrathe - 09-13-2017
If you've been focused on the hurricanes lately...
There was a Nurse in Salt Lake City area non-arrested but very physically assaulted for protecting an unconcious patients rights. In an ironic twist, that unconscious burned patient she defended was also an off duty police officer.
SLC mayor says internal affairs investigation found police officers who arrested nurse violated a number of department policies
Then in Las Vegas. Micheal Bennett, pro football player, allegedly ran from a casino where the police were looking for an alleged active shooter. He got run down and tackled by a LV policeman (>blink<). Then, allegedly Mr. Bennett feels he was treated badly. I really can sympathize. I've been (and had friends) detained by police when a rebellious youth, and sometimes the officers are rude, and mean. Mostly, they did their jobs cordially, and effectively. I've never been black though, so I don't know the entire perspective. It was probably a bit humiliating too.
I think both are looking at a hefty settlement with the respective municipality funded by the tax payers. I'm reserving my entire verdict on the Las Vegas incident until both sides can present their evidence. Meanwhile, Mr. Bennett is driving the narrative since police don't discuss ongoing investigations.
<offtopic>I still don't see how disrespecting the Flag and Anthem ceremony does anything other than bring politics into entertainment. Or, in other words, Micheal Bennett's workplace, and this is probably disrupting his livelihood and that of his co-workers. I'd say the chances of getting SJW's to be football fans is less likely than getting football fans to dislike SJW players.</offtopic>
My grandfather was a policeman. He never shot anyone, and never got physical unless the suspect got physical first. And... I've personally talked down the guy who broke into my house growing up to kill my sister, and numerous potential muggers. In the whacko killer incident, I had the option of bringing a gun to that potential knife fight. But, I chose to talk him down. In those "almost" muggings, I kept calm, even though I was pretty well practiced in martial arts. Eventually, after what always seems like an eternity getting assaulted (pushed around), the police arrived. I just learned this lesson variously, if you don't want to get into a scrap, stay away from places where you're going to get into a scrap. But, there is not much you can do if you have a beautiful sister. Get a gun.
I don't understand what is hard about de-escalating hostile situations. It's got to be a dominance thing, or ego thing, or bad training. I mean, the recruiters should be able to filter police applicants. Bullies need not apply.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - roguebanshee - 09-14-2017
(09-13-2017, 11:23 PM)kandrathe Wrote: I don't understand what is hard about de-escalating hostile situations. It's got to be a dominance thing, or ego thing, or bad training. I mean, the recruiters should be able to filter police applicants. Bullies need not apply.Not everyone is a confident talker without having the backup of force. And if you tried to filter out everyone who might react badly in a hostile situation, the police force (of any nation) would be rather miniscule. Everyone has had different experiences growing up, so the instinctive/default behaviour of people is always going to vary. Someone being told that "dem <insert racial slur> are bad criminals" throughout their youth is likely to have that as part of their intrinsic worldview.
Then there's whatever prior stress is influencing both parties in a situation, their current mood, initial reaction/prejudices to the other party, what they expect of the situation, and other such details. If one person reads the situation wrong, they're likely to react in an inapropriate manner.
As far as the nurse goes, depending on the tone of the officer and the tone of her responses, that could go a long way to (de)escalate the situation if either of them felt the other disrespected their station. Since I wasn't there and haven't seen any recordings of the action, I can't say whether either of them were (un)intentionally escalating the situation.
For the nfl player, running away from police is almost always a bad idea. If they're looking for an armed suspect even more so. He likely just wanted to get away from the shooting, but running away from the police is very likely to make them suspicious of you. The police may have (massively) overreacted, but the officers likely didn't know if he was the shooter and he was trying to get away.
I don't condone the actions, but I can see how they could turn out the way they did without any ill intent from the police officers involved.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - kandrathe - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 06:15 AM)roguebanshee Wrote:Good point. My father was the type to go from casual conversation, to red hot, blowing his top angry. I learned quickly to read people, and defuse them. For me, it was a survival skill.(09-13-2017, 11:23 PM)kandrathe Wrote: I don't understand what is hard about de-escalating hostile situations. It's got to be a dominance thing, or ego thing, or bad training. I mean, the recruiters should be able to filter police applicants. Bullies need not apply.Not everyone is a confident talker without having the backup of force. And if you tried to filter out everyone who might react badly in a hostile situation, the police force (of any nation) would be rather miniscule. Everyone has had different experiences growing up, so the instinctive/default behaviour of people is always going to vary. Someone being told that "dem <insert racial slur> are bad criminals" throughout their youth is likely to have that as part of their intrinsic worldview.
In the SLC case, in context, the police were in a high speed pursuit with a suspect who committed suicide by head on collision into a semi-rig. Yes, the suspect being chased died immediately in the crash. The trucker/patient they wanted blood from is the victim of the collision that erupted immediately into a fiery explosion. Evidently the purpose of the blood test was ass covering for the police who were involved in the high speed pursuit. I think this is a definitive case of the giant snowball of injustice. Everybody loses in this case. Well, the nurse will get a hefty settlement. Probably, also the trucker/victim of the head on collision will also get some settlement.
Dash cam footage from the two police cars just before the crash.
Another summary article with good details.
Here is a pretty good vid of the nurse situation... the police officer talking at the beginning describes what he was told to do... he is clearly frustrated with the red tape. He takes out his frustration on the nurse denying him what he wants.
More consequences for the arresting officer...
Quote:For the nfl player, running away from police is almost always a bad idea. If they're looking for an armed suspect even more so. He likely just wanted to get away from the shooting, but running away from the police is very likely to make them suspicious of you. The police may have (massively) overreacted, but the officers likely didn't know if he was the shooter and he was trying to get away.I have more sympathy for the verbal abuse Mr. Bennett suffered, if corroborated. His detainment lasted ten minutes. His physical complaint was handcuffs too tight, which, if you've ever been handcuffed is a common failing. They are very uncomfortable, without the prerequisite fun fur.
Anyway, I think with more body cams will come more lawsuits as more injustices that would have been he/she said situations (with defecto backing the officers judgement). It is becoming more important to weed out the loose cannons who will expose our municipalities to malpractice suits, and to give proper training. I would still maintain that many who are drawn to the profession are exactly the types you don't want. They like to get physical, are already bigoted, or have a dog in the fight ( grudge). Chasing bad guys every day does not improve your opinion of society. After a New Years party one year, an employee of the firm I worked with was arrested because his girlfriend was wading in the hotel fountain (long story). The guy was not drunk, but again, things escalated out of hand. He had served time as a young man, but turned his life around with a career in software. I spoke to one of the officers afterwards, to find out how we could bail him out. He told me, "you know he did time... we can always tell... they have an institutional smell." Chilling. This was why it got out of hand. They sensed the fear of a former caged man.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - FireIceTalon - 09-14-2017
All cops are bastards. Absolutely one of the most despicable professions one can choose.
That cop who assaulted the nurse, should have his blood drawn. All of it.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - kandrathe - 09-15-2017
(09-14-2017, 04:31 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: All cops are bastards. Absolutely one of the most despicable professions one can choose.He was... only following orders... like a good Nazi.
That cop who assaulted the nurse, should have his blood drawn. All of it.
But, death is extreme. I think justice would be that police, like other professionals with the means to kill, should pay malpractice insurance based on their training, history, experience. That way, the risk of bad police is borne by bad police, not levied as taxes upon an entire community. It seems wholly unfair, and unjust that the victims of bad police also end up paying for the settlements of being victimized. A very macabre lottery.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - Tal - 09-18-2017
(09-14-2017, 04:31 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: All cops are bastards. Absolutely one of the most despicable professions one can choose.
That cop who assaulted the nurse, should have his blood drawn. All of it.
All communists are dickheads. Absolutely one of the most ignorant political beliefs one can believe in.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - FireIceTalon - 09-18-2017
If me wanting equality and the eradication of all oppression and exploitation in society makes me a dickhead, then fucking A, I'm a dickhead. But moreover, I make absolutely no apologies about it. In fact, I'll gladly wear the dickhead label as a badge of honor. What!
I'm sure that bothers you more than the nurse getting assaulted by a member of the American Gestapo. Wouldn't expect anything less from a pro-cappie.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - kandrathe - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 06:21 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: If me wanting equality and the eradication of all oppression and exploitation in society makes me a dickhead, then fucking A, I'm a dickhead. But moreover, I make absolutely no apologies about it. In fact, I'll gladly wear the dickhead label as a badge of honor. What!Commies aside.
I'm sure that bothers you more than the nurse getting assaulted by a member of the American Gestapo. Wouldn't expect anything less from a pro-cappie.
I was thinking about this as it relates to a book I must write some day, along with some of my native friends.
In the context of "The Yuck Factor".
Quote:Still, is it really desirable for, say, bad smells to encourage xenophobia or homophobia? “I think it’s very possible to override disgust. That’s my hope, in fact,” says Pizarro. “Even though we might have very strong disgust reactions, we should be tasked with coming up with reasons independent of this reflexive gut reaction.”
Most native words for members of their tribe are roughly "the people", and for those not of the tribe it is "not of the people" or enemy.
Obviously, we need to encourage people to be better informed, to process that "yuck" response, and to intellectually address it in the context of knowledge & wisdom. We know in these modern times the "others" are not carrying pathogens that will wipe out our tribe, and so we can commingle with the "others" without concerns.
FITs (and other counter-reactionaries) attitude reflect as a mirror of this instinctual anti-intellectual revulsion of the "other". His "Yuck" reaction is towards those who are reacting on instincts, without utilizing their brains or informing themselves to debunk their phobias. Trump, and his "fear the immigrants" platform is a what I believe is either a cynical pandering to innate xenophobia, or just his own ignorance expressed as fear. Either way, it rallies those who are easily propagandized by a few bad immigrant anecdotes (e.g. Muslim terrorists, or criminal Mexicans). So, then... We can propose in generosity, that the average Trump supporter is not therefore a white supremacist, but rather uninformed, and fearful.
But, this following video is a recruiting wet dream for the alt-right... Just like tiki torch carrying white nationalists are a rally point for Antifa.
Where I think we also need to be careful, in either the instinctual xenophobic reactionaries or rationalizing anti-reactionaries, is to not resort to the instinctual tribal reaction, which is violence against the other. My question then is, how do we escape the establishment of these self defined moral systems, where we call out the heretics and burn them at the stake. The "right" has its moral systems, the left does, FIT has strong opinions on morality, but if everyone imposes the death penalty for unbelievers, we all die.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - Tal - 09-19-2017
(09-18-2017, 06:21 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: If me wanting equality and the eradication of all oppression and exploitation in society makes me a dickhead, then fucking A, I'm a dickhead. But moreover, I make absolutely no apologies about it. In fact, I'll gladly wear the dickhead label as a badge of honor. What!
You miss the point entirely.
(09-18-2017, 06:21 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: I'm sure that bothers you more than the nurse getting assaulted by a member of the American Gestapo. Wouldn't expect anything less from a pro-cappie.
With the way you jump to conclusions we could solve the energy crisis.
You paint an entire profession with a broad paint brush because it fits your narrative.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - FireIceTalon - 09-19-2017
(09-19-2017, 12:14 PM)Tal Wrote: You paint an entire profession with a broad paint brush because it fits your narrative.
No. It has absolutely nothing to do with any "narrative" I conjured up, and everything to do with an observation of material reality and the historical origin and role of the police as an organization.
Cops, by their very position in society and by their very purpose, are class enemies of the proletariat (especially of those in ethnic minority groups). Their duty is to protect ruling class interests and preserve private property relations. The thoughts and intentions of individual cops are much less important than the fundamental role police have, as an organization, within capitalist society. You rarely, if ever, see police oppressing or harassing members of the ruling, exploiting class. Even the military is less reactionary than the police, since historically the military has on certain occasions, gone over to the revolutionary side. Not to mention, that they are more economically conscripted than the police are. I can't think of any historical moment where the police have done this. The same is true in non-revolutionary moments of class struggle, such as a workers strike - the police almost always take the side of the bosses. American cops in particular are bordering on being a terrorist organization, if they aren't one already.
Aside from those facts, most cops are sociopathic and power hungry asshats that get off on bullying people with an ironfist. Probably bullied in high school (or even did the bullying then as well) so they figure they can join a profession where the tables are turned or where they can continue and expand their bullying ways with impunity. They are also extremely trigger happy and love to escalate situations at any opportunity to have an excuse to shoot someone. Further, they generally seem to have a special contempt for ordinary people. No broad brushes here, just me telling it like it ACTUALLY is - not how I think it is, or ought to be.
What makes it even worse, these thugs actually have a union. Despicable. NWA said it best: FUCK THE POLICE.
If cops and their sympathizers don't like the above observations, then perhaps cops should take up a more HONORABLE and HUMANITARIAN profession. Such as being a NURSE, for instance.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - kandrathe - 09-19-2017
Haha!
(09-19-2017, 12:14 PM)Tal Wrote: You paint an entire profession with a broad paint brush because it fits your narrative.
Tal: "You paint with a broad brush, cuz narrative"...
(09-19-2017, 02:30 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: No...
[ALL] Cops, by their very position in society and by their very purpose, are...
FIT: "NO, I paint with broad brush, cuz...{insert narrative}... Communism."
I think the definition of "paint with a broad brush" means you imply that [ALL]...
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - FireIceTalon - 09-19-2017
If the so-called "narrative" is true and matches historical reality, which in this case is so in the most brazen of ways, then the "broad brush" argument does NOT apply, or hold any weight. *shrugs*
For every cop out there that means well, there is multiple bad ones. But more importantly, as I stated before, the thoughts and intentions of each cop means little (if anything) when taken into context their FUNDAMENTAL purpose as an institution in capitalist society. Their job is to protect private property and ruling class interests, regardless of how good their intentions may be.
Not all forms of cancer are fatal, but none of them are ever a good thing.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - kandrathe - 09-20-2017
(09-19-2017, 06:32 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: If the so-called "narrative" is true and matches historical reality, which in this case is so in the most brazen of ways, then the "broad brush" argument does NOT apply, or hold any weight. *shrugs*You might frame it that way, or look at the need to defend what we create. There are a lot of malevolent forces who want to burn it all down. Whether that be soldier, or police. They both are supposed to be a wall against injustice. But , sometimes, I agree, they are the wrong people, and should not be in that profession. Most are good.
For every cop out there that means well, there is multiple bad ones. But more importantly, as I stated before, the thoughts and intentions of each cop means little (if anything) when taken into context their FUNDAMENTAL purpose as an institution in capitalist society. Their job is to protect private property and ruling class interests, regardless of how good their intentions may be.
https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=553
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - Archon_Wing - 09-28-2017
https://reason.com/blog/2017/09/27/police-union-complains-that-public-got-t
Remember, it's only wrong if you get caught.
And fuck this War on The poor Minorities Drugs. Worthless shits see a dying person and they want to see if he has drugs in him.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - kandrathe - 09-29-2017
(09-28-2017, 08:53 PM)Archon_Wing Wrote: https://reason.com/blog/2017/09/27/police-union-complains-that-public-got-tThere are cameras in most ever retail store now. I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect the police to document their interactions with the public. And, as public servants it is not unreasonable for those interactions to be made available to those they interact with as part of the whole premise of innocent until proven guilty.
Remember, it's only wrong if you get caught.
And fuck this War on The poor Minorities Drugs. Worthless shits see a dying person and they want to see if he has drugs in him.
There is a YouTube channel of a colorful and nice judge in Providence. One case was for running a red light... in looking at the video in court it was clear A guy ran the light, but the camera caught the plate of the guy who actually stopped. Judge threw out the case and apologized for wasting the innocent guys time.
So, it’s good in that it can prove your innocence, and bad in that it coldly and inhumanly catches every crime. I guess I can understand the union standing up for its membership, but part of the bigger problem is the often too collusional relationships between police, prosecutors, DA’s, and justice system infrastructure.
Like I stated earlier, it is troubling that in the Information Age, where law enforcement can run your Id or facial recognition, and get your life story, that very little data is captured on police interactions, such that we’d get good data on negative interactions by demography, especially for minority groups who feel victimized. Seems too good for them, and bad for us.
Then the whole... if we citizens shoot someone (even in self defense) we get arrested, and sit in jail. But, in the worst cases it seems the police get two weeks paid leave, a sham cya investigation, and whitewashing. 5 years later after legal delays long enough for everyone to have forgotten all about it, the exoneration, and there may be a small risk of uproar, where the few who remember might damage shops in their own neighborhood.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - FireIceTalon - 10-02-2017
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catalonia-referendum-firefighters-spanish-police-beaten-attacked-independence-human-shield-barcelona-a7976766.html
Spanish police thugs doing what they do best - not only beating up workers and voters, but the fire fighters who were trying to shield them as well. As stated before, being a cop is the most despicable profession on the face of the earth. They even went as low to beat up an elderly woman. Police everywhere, are scum.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - eppie - 10-02-2017
(10-02-2017, 05:22 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: Police everywhere, are scum.
I dont agree. Spanish police, especially the guardia civil are known to be rightwingers....supporters of the PP who are neo francoists. That doesnt say police everywhere are scum
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - FireIceTalon - 10-02-2017
(10-02-2017, 07:03 PM)eppie Wrote:(10-02-2017, 05:22 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: Police everywhere, are scum.
I dont agree. Spanish police, especially the guardia civil are known to be rightwingers....supporters of the PP who are neo francoists. That doesnt say police everywhere are scum
I cannot think of a moment in history, anywhere, where police ever took the side of normal, working people over the ruling classes (especially in any instance of class struggle) - and that is because their job is to protect capitalist and state interests. Have you ever seen otherwise? Yea, me neither.
Their personal politics don't matter so much. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of "liberal" police officers out there, but that doesn't change their fundamental role and duty in capitalist society.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - Alram - 10-02-2017
(10-02-2017, 05:22 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catalonia-referendum-firefighters-spanish-police-beaten-attacked-independence-human-shield-barcelona-a7976766.htmlPlease detail all the facts that you know about the referendum in Catalonia.
Spanish police thugs doing what they do best - not only beating up workers and voters, but the fire fighters who were trying to shield them as well. As stated before, being a cop is the most despicable profession on the face of the earth. They even went as low to beat up an elderly woman. Police everywhere, are scum.
RE: On assaulting Nurses and Pro Football players. - FireIceTalon - 10-02-2017
^^Your nose reeks of Spanish pig dung. Hint: The details of the referendum do NOT legitimize police brutality and thuggery in any circumstances.
You know its fucked when even members of a British bourgeois capitalist party condemn it:
Quote:Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn said: "Police violence against citizens in Catalonia is shocking. The Spanish government must act to put an end to this now."