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+--- Thread: How to answer whining about the RNG? (/thread-1663.html)
How to answer whining about the RNG? - Mordekhuul - 08-28-2008
What is the solution to a bunch of folks whining in a WoW forum thread that the random number generator isn't random (because some guilds get multiple glaives and some get none...sigh)?
Why, quote Rosencrantz and Gildenstern are Dead and don't tell the people you are answering that this is what you are doing as they try to puzzle out your reply, of course!
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/9336664921-...not-random.html
How to answer whining about the RNG? - vor_lord - 08-28-2008
I love Zarhym. This is awesome.
How to answer whining about the RNG? - Jester - 08-28-2008
Quote:What is the solution to a bunch of folks whining in a WoW forum thread that the random number generator isn't random (because some guilds get multiple glaives and some get none...sigh)?
Why, quote Rosencrantz and Gildenstern are Dead and don't tell the people you are answering that this is what you are doing as they try to puzzle out your reply, of course!
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/9336664921-...not-random.html
Well done!
The pattern recognition part of our brain is much stronger than the skeptical part. The idea that the PRNG can be gamed in WoW (or any game) is so tempting, and yet...
... so wrong.
-Jester
How to answer whining about the RNG? - --Pete - 08-29-2008
Hi,
Quote:Well done!Really? Remember the clock freeze in CD? That's one way to game the PRNG.
The pattern recognition part of our brain is much stronger than the skeptical part. The idea that the PRNG can be gamed in WoW (or any game) is so tempting, and yet...
... so wrong.
-Jester
If one were to get the code for the PRNG, then given *one* number the whole series would be known. The other part, then, is getting that number. Of course, Blizzard servers are hack proof. And there's a bridge to Brooklyn that's for sale.
--Pete
How to answer whining about the RNG? - vor_lord - 08-29-2008
I believe Jester is referring to the schemes that are proposed in the thread, if read in its entirety.
The schemes essentially amount to controlling who zones in first (the class is of utmost importance in such a thing), what time you zone in, and what day.
How to answer whining about the RNG? - --Pete - 08-29-2008
Hi,
Quote:I believe Jester is referring to the schemes that are proposed in the thread, if read in its entirety.Oh, in that case, OK. I didn't read the whole thread -- inanity bores me;)
The schemes essentially amount to controlling who zones in first (the class is of utmost importance in such a thing), what time you zone in, and what day.
-Pete
How to answer whining about the RNG? - Delc - 08-29-2008
Without some pretty in-depth knowledge of the prng they are using, and how its seeded I doubt anyone is going to find a way to game it.
How to answer whining about the RNG? - Jester - 08-29-2008
Quote:Hi,
Really? Remember the clock freeze in CD? That's one way to game the PRNG.
If one were to get the code for the PRNG, then given *one* number the whole series would be known. The other part, then, is getting that number. Of course, Blizzard servers are hack proof. And there's a bridge to Brooklyn that's for sale.
--Pete
Yeah, the day someone hacks Blizzard's servers to get the code for the PRNG and figures out the whole series, and then manages to time their raiding down to precisely the number required, or freezes Blizzard's server clocks, or whatever the heck else, I'll believe it. I'm sure it's not impossible.
When people are yakkin' about Warglaive drops (or "lucky streaks" in Civ or whatever else) because they don't understand basic statistics? I think not.
-Jester
How to answer whining about the RNG? - Kevin - 08-29-2008
Quote:Yeah, the day someone hacks Blizzard's servers to get the code for the PRNG and figures out the whole series, and then manages to time their raiding down to precisely the number required, or freezes Blizzard's server clocks, or whatever the heck else, I'll believe it. I'm sure it's not impossible.
When people are yakkin' about Warglaive drops (or "lucky streaks" in Civ or whatever else) because they don't understand basic statistics? I think not.
-Jester
Civ 4 drives me nuts I can't play without new seed on reload checked. I know it's supposed to add more to the game for the low chance things to happen, but when I have a 85-95% chance to win and I lose 3 times in a row (different battles of course) and when I lose badly, as in I do little to no damage to the CPU unit I just get frustrated. That's a what 0.3% chance to happen (losing 3 seperate 85% chance to win fights in a row). So sure it can happen, and crazy #$%& really does happen in wars (battle of Leyte Gulf anyone?). But it drives me nuts in the game. :)
Of course that may have more to do with the fact that I'm generally not playing Civ4 for a challenge. If I were I would love it when something like that happened. I play it for silly little empire building wastes of time mostly. Occasionally I play it for a real challenge but generally I'll play GalCiv2 with mega events turned on for my challenging turn based games. Dunno why.
How to answer whining about the RNG? - --Pete - 08-29-2008
Hi,
Quote:. . . get the code for the PRNG and figures out the whole series . . .One and the same thing. Or, more correctly, given the code, the series is fully determined. And I doubt that Buzzard wrote their own PRNG. Probably used the one in the library that came with the compiler.
Quote:. . . and then manages to time their raiding down to precisely the number required, or freezes Blizzard's server clocks, or whatever the heck else, I'll believe it. I'm sure it's not impossible.Precisely my point. Your
"The idea that the PRNG can be gamed in WoW (or any game) is so tempting, and yet...
... so wrong."
gives the impression that it is impossible. As a card carrying (ex)-hacker (old definition) I found that slightly insulting:) I'm reasonably sure that Buzzard does not physically send its employees to the servers to do updates, etc., so there is a door. That, patience, ingenuity, and time is all that you need.
Quote:When people are yakkin' about Warglaive drops (or "lucky streaks" in Civ or whatever else) because they don't understand basic statistics? I think not.Yep. Them thar fools ain't never gonna do it. But them thar fools ain't the only people around -- though those that could probably have better (or at least newer) fish to fry.
--Pete
How to answer whining about the RNG? - Epi - 08-30-2008
Quote:One and the same thing. Or, more correctly, given the code, the series is fully determined. And I doubt that Buzzard wrote their own PRNG. Probably used the one in the library that came with the compiler.Yes, that's correct - but I doubt Blizzard re-initialize their PRNG for each instance (just because I don't see any benefits of it, and it definitely complicates the code). Most likely, just one sequence is used for the entire world, which means that knowing that sequence will not help you much - since you cannot predict what number form the sequence will be used for Warglaive drops (it all depends on when that lvl 1 hunter in Teldrassil decides to attack that boar, and how many number in the sequence will be used to determine who survives that).
-Epi.