+- The Lurker Lounge Forums (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums)
+-- Forum: The Lurker Lounge (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Lounge (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-12.html)
+--- Thread: Is it too early to call it? (/thread-16421.html)
Pages:
1
2
Is it too early to call it? - Taem - 05-04-2016
Trump vs Hilary? Seems pretty much set in stone at this point. I can understand all the hate for Trump because he's a doer, not a pleaser, but why all the hate for Hilary? I can't find anything she's done that would make me specifically say to myself, "this would be a terrible and weak leader." Between the two, who do you feel will win, why?
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Thenryb - 05-04-2016
Too early to call. As for the Hilary hate? This summarizes it pretty well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Taem - 05-05-2016
I suppose it must be "the way she lies," because when I've seen from Trumps side has been on equal footing, but Trump defends his lies brutally by pointing out just how "right" he is, and how poor his accuser is, whereas Hilary seems to take the heat, and come up with "excuses", which seem to pissing people off more than the blunt lying Trump does. I don't see her lies as any worse off then anybody her running mates. However on a personal note, my vote will be for Trump because I'm tired of this socialist Democrat agenda pervading the Democratic ticket for the last couple terms. I also incorrectly predicted this email scandal would be the political end of Hilary, and perhaps it will when she goes toe to toe with Trump, but regardless, they are all lying politicians and nothing she lied about has me any more up at arms than any of the other lies you hear during a presidential running. I've seen politicians lie about their religious beliefs, views on abortion, on taxes, oh yeah, and the fact Trump has been a goddamn Democrat this entire voting life, but changed platforms just to run for president. Come on, I can't possibly see this (political lying) to be the reason for so much hate, unless the haters were actually sexist. I'm not arguing this point because my votes for Hilary, because it's not, but because the logic is severly flawed here.
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Jester - 05-05-2016
Trump is the last candidate standing for the GOP, so that's a done deal.
Bernie no longer has a mountain to climb in order to win. He has a sheer icy cliff face, something out of Game of Thrones. He would need resoundingly enormous victories everywhere to even tie it up, and that's not even counting superdelegates.
I'd put my money 99-1 on Hillary vs. Trump, and even that's just hedging for the risk that one of them dies before the nomination.
-Jester
RE: Is it too early to call it? - FireIceTalon - 05-05-2016
I doubt the Republicans will win a general election ever again, and certainly not anywhere near in the future, just because of how the electoral map is constructed - REGARDLESS of which candidate they choose:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/02/republicans-have-a-massive-electoral-map-problem-that-has-nothing-to-do-with-donald-trump/
Dems got a massive starting advantage.
But it really makes no difference either way, since both are capitalist bourgeois parties in the pockets of the CEO's and bankers, and both are anti-working class. Both are equally shit choices.
Quote:I'm tired of this socialist Democrat agenda pervading the Democratic ticket
And this is where the eyerolls come, since the Dems are anything but socialist (and yes, this includes Bernie who is at best a social democrat and not socialist - there IS a difference). Either way, I fail to see how replacing them with a xenophobic and self righteous facist blowhard like Trump will make things any better. The only thing a Trump presidency would accomplish is soaring real estate prices in Canada.
People don't hate Trump because hes a "doer". People hate him because of the blatantly sexist, racist, homophobic, anti-working class sentiment that he spews all the time. In general, he's just a miserable and hateful person. Hillary is hardly any better, but only the most extreme of deranged sociopaths could see any value in someone like Trump, whereas at least Hillary has an appeal and charm about her (however fake it is). Or maybe someone who doesn't doesn't see/understand that his politics are ultra reactionary and backwards in almost every conceivable way, even by bourgeois standards; though wrapping my mind around this is difficult considering he makes it more obvious than almost any other GOP candidate. Oh, and I forgot to mention: hes ugly as fuck.
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Alram - 05-05-2016
http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/?other=other
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Jester - 05-06-2016
(05-05-2016, 08:05 PM)Alram Wrote: http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/?other=other
Who *doesn't* want to vote for John McAfee?
-Jester
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Alram - 05-06-2016
I just discovered this site:
Which candidate do you side with?
I took the quiz. I learned that I side with Marc Allan Feldman on most 2016 Presidential Election issues --86%. That's good to know. I'd never heard of him before.
Try the quiz. It is an interesting exercise.
My results
Marc Allan Feldman on 86% of issues
John McAfee on 82% of issues
Gary Johnson on 82% of issues
Donald Trump on 70% of issues (ugh)
Hillary Clinton on 64% of issues
Bernie Sanders on 63% of issues
It is good to know that I have better than 50% agreement with all of them. I guess I can't lose.
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Jester - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 03:08 PM)Alram Wrote: Try the quiz. It is an interesting exercise.
Thanks to top coding and the filter of US politics, (which makes perfect sense in context), I end up with 97% Bernie, 96% Hillary, about halfsies on the libertarians, and 16% Trump.
No surprises there, I guess.
-Jester
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Thenryb - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 04:23 PM)Jester Wrote:(05-06-2016, 03:08 PM)Alram Wrote: Try the quiz. It is an interesting exercise.
Thanks to top coding and the filter of US politics, (which makes perfect sense in context), I end up with 97% Bernie, 96% Hillary, about halfsies on the libertarians, and 16% Trump.
No surprises there, I guess.
-Jester
94% Bernie, 90% Hillary, 39% Trump here. Certainly out of step with the seat of light and culture where I live (Kansas).
RE: Is it too early to call it? - FireIceTalon - 05-06-2016
The results for me were expected yet still very misleading of my views, since the questions are posed in a way that presumes the person answering them supports a capitalist framework with a standard bourgeois political system, by default. Which of course I do not. But I took it for shits and gigs anyways.
97% Bernie Sanders
95% Jill Stein
86% Hilary Clinton (Ugh. You know the questions are fucked for me if I get this result, cause in reality I probably agree with her on less than 5% of things that actually matter).
13% Trump
The numbers one gets with these things too is pretty misleading because the poll counts "custom answers" (with the explanation option) as the same as plain yes or no, even though they may very well be disagreeable. For instance, on the legalization of marijuana, both me and Trump say it should be legalized, but in Trump's opinion only for medical use...whereas I support complete legalization of pot.
So I'll take these results with a grain of salt.
I don't vote in bourgeois elections, but if I did I guess I would cast my vote for Gloria LaRiva. She seems much closer to being a genuine communist than Bernie, who is nothing of the sort.
At the end of the day, we will have the two equally piss-poor choices of Trump vs. Hillary, with the latter winning in a landslide.
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Bolty - 05-07-2016
Fun quiz.
Bernie Sanders 100%
Hillary Clinton 99%
Jill Stein 96%
John Kasich 62%
Gary Johnson 58%
Donald Trump 11%
My immediate reaction is how easy it would be to manipulate this quiz by design to point people wherever you want. Too many candidates have changed positions on various things through the years, so how can you say for sure where they truly stand on issue X? I don't trust politicians because basic politics forces them to lie to people to get elected - meaning I don't blame politicians, I blame voters who make them the way they are.
RE: Is it too early to call it? - FireIceTalon - 05-07-2016
Voters have little sway on the behavior of politicians if you ask me. Them being this way is a NATURAL (and inevitable) result of the internal logic of capitalist politics, since their duty is to protect, serve, and create laws that in are in the interest of private capital. This is why when I hear idealistic liberals talk about "taking money out of politics" to eliminate or even reduce corruption, I can't help but laugh. Firstly, you will never get big money of politics - the rich and powerful have always controlled any political system and will always see to it that their interests are protected above all else. Secondly, even if you could, it still doesn't change the functionality of politicians or the concept of 'the State' in general.
What I DO blame the voters for though, is not having the wits to understand the above and they keep voting for the same assholes year after year. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result. But even here, it isnt all the voters fault either, since the culture and institutions of capitalism promotes specific ideologies taylored to make people think a certain way (i.e. that we NEED politicians and leaders at all, that class based societies are a good thing, emphasis of competition over cooperation, that "others" are inferior to those who conform to social norms and bourgeois culture, etc), and it is extremely difficult to break free from this ideological control, believe me.....especially since the ideas are shoved down our throats at literally every turn. Nevertheless these things have profound impact in shaping peoples beliefs, thoughts, and decisions they make in all facets of life. And we learn this stuff from a very young age, since our rulers know that they have to start when we are most impressionable.
But it is possible to break free of it, since material conditions are what primarily shapes our consciousness. I think this is what is beginning to occur in American politics, as indicated by the presence of anti-mainstream politicians (at least in theory) like Trump and Sanders. Not that they are good candidates, or that we should even have candidates at all, but the point is they reflect a changing in the conciousness of the American worker when it comes to politics. People are getting tired of the same old crap.
Chance also can play a factor too. In my case, if we go back to 2008, I voted for Obama. I wasn't a Marxist yet mind you, at the time I was a fairly moderate social democrat, with even a few libertarian-like tendencies. I didn't become a Marxist for at least another couple years, sometime in 2011 perhaps. But several factors, mostly material ones, contributed to this radicalization in my political thought. Firstly, there was the failure of the Obama Administration to make good on the promises he made, especially when the Dems owned both the House and Senate initially. This was the first blow to my loyalty to being a liberal, I became very disillusioned with the entire political process and system. There was also the fact that every job I worked at, was all the same - the bosses wanted the most work out of me while paying as little as possible with no benefits. I also began to question the ideals of the American Dream when I saw everyone around me working their asses off, but getting nothing in return essentially - except unemployment, health problems, stress, no medical insurance, living from pay check to pay check, etc....When I went back to school in 2010 I took a class where Marx happened to be one of the subjects we covered. I was already very disillusioned with how things were, so reading Marx & Engels resonated with me but it wasn't enough yet - I wanted to learn more. So I took it upon myself to read more Marxist and radical left-wing literature and sources outside the classroom, discussions with various leftists, and everything began to make more sense at this point. So my politics began to move rapidly to the left. This was the final blow to shattering my loyalty to mainstream bourgeois politics, as class consciousness replaced false consciousness. So, discovering Marx and Engels was the nail in the coffin, but hardly the initial spark. That being said, once you become a Marxist, you will never ever look at the world the same way again. But me discovering them was purely chance, though I guess a greater chance since material conditions had already made question the way things were.
RE: Is it too early to call it? - kandrathe - 05-08-2016
I won't be voting for either Trump or Clinton. My standard is on character, and neither have it. Of all the candidates, Sanders has the proper character, although he's ideologically opposed from me on issues.
I don't "hate" any of them. I just don't believe they are representative of the people.
I guess I need to investigate some guy named Austin Petersen.
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Archon_Wing - 05-09-2016
Bleh if there was an easy way to cut and paste text :S
https://www.isidewith.com/results-image/elections/2016-presidential/2305244870.jpg
I think 64% with trump is way too much.
I think it's finally come down to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v7XXSt9XRM
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Alram - 05-09-2016
That video is really appropriate. Great!
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Taem - 05-09-2016
Outstanding! That video was very fitting and hilarious.
RE: Is it too early to call it? - kandrathe - 05-10-2016
I feel more like Voting anguish.
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Alram - 05-11-2016
(05-10-2016, 03:13 PM)kandrathe Wrote: I feel more like Voting anguish.Another excellent video that perfectly describes our dilemma this year.
RE: Is it too early to call it? - Jester - 05-12-2016
On a related note, it has been pointed out that John McAfee is clearly the mirror universe Gary Johnson, scarred and hardened by the post-apocalyptic world he's had to endure.
-Jester