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Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - shoju - 07-16-2013
I pulled the cobwebs off the ranger, and decided I would give 11.2 a try as a ranger. I wanted to see:
1.) Was evasion better, or would I still backtrack to Iron Reflexes.
2.) How is the new starting area?
3.) Is the style of play better?
Well, I haven't played much. I have about 90 minutes in so far. But, I can tell you this: I haven't died. And, it's not because I haven't tried.
My Current Build I spent 30-45 minutes going over the build, and trying to figure out how much I could get at 52 (I leveled to 53 last night). I figured this would be a good place to go tart from, and it would give me a chance to toy around with some of the new / redesigned points.
Now, I'm only planning this build until 70. I figure by 70, I should have killed merc piety, and that means I should have all the "extra" skill points I'm going to end up with. This, is where I think I will end up Assuming that Evasion holds true to my initial findings.
And that is, that the change to evasion and accuracy on monsters, coupled with making the early evasion nodes more attractive by attaching a small life % to them, makes the class feel better. I have more evasion % than I did before. I cleared out the docks and leveled. It felt pretty easy. So I went back to Lunaris via my WP, and went in, and decided since I had just leveled, I should see just how well I can hold up.
Now, currently, I use 2 Life, and 3 mana flasks. I haven't incorporated the Granite I got from MonTy in yet, as I want to see how these changes would work out. I don't use a quicksilver flask, because I'm currently moving at 25% increased speed, with no penalty from gear (love that node)
I rounded up 10, 12, and once even 14 mobs. I dropped Proj Weakness, my LA totem, and proceeded to RoA them down. It got a little hairy at times, I wont lie. But I never got below 400HP. My mind never even said: "I need to run"
Now, I am tempering my initial joy with the fact that I'm unsure how that is going to hold up in the long term. One of my overarching problems with gear in the game, is that unless you have a "god piece" of gear, you just don't upgrade it very fast.
This Is my current gear. it's not "terrible" for now, but I'm worried about my ability to upgrade it, and if Evasion will continue to hold out once the upgrades are slower.
So I guess, after 90 minutes, in A3 Cruel, I'm going to say:
1.) Evasion, seems better, at least in the short term. I will update my feelings as I go along, and hit Piety Cruel, and then Merciless.
2.) The new starting area of the tree feels REALLY good. The Mana Regen Node is a noticeable QOL Improvement. If I'm not topped off after fighting some stuff, I'm not worried about having to pot before I get to another fight.
My HP dropped a little, but that's because I'm not as invested into life nodes yet. I lost ~200 HP, but gained ~16% Evasion. I'm not sure that's a "great" trade off, but the increase in evasion has been noticeable.
My DPS has increased. Same gear, more DPS. And I'm pretty sure I have the same amount of offensive options chosen. Though, I am noticing, that with my current gear, Burning Arrow is a REALLY Attractive option at times. Once I'm stacked on Frenzy, I can swap to BA, and pick off a few stragglers to conserve a little mana (not much, ~10 per cast), and only lose ~50dps. Which isn't much when picking off a few stragglers here and there.
Before the patch, my full stacked Frenzy DPS was ~950. Now, my full stacked Frenzy DPS is 1080. That's not bad, and on some fights, it's actually noticeable. Kole for example, felt much easier to take down.
3.) This was an improvement in the play of the ranger. 100% positive. While I'm not sure that it will be enough, I think from a passive tree POV, this fixed an awful lot.
I will continue to update my Opinion as I play more.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - shoju - 07-16-2013
And one more quick thing that I've found that I ABSOLUTELY LOVE.
Ranged Attack Totem
Lightning Arrow
LMP
Blind
I just put this together, and I'm in FREAKING LOVE with the setup. I'm unsure if the "splash" from LA gives the blind effect or not, but the LMP + LA definitely adds a copious amount of AoE.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - MonTy - 07-17-2013
Starting Ranger area has improved a lot, and like I mentioned in my recent news post it'll be a huge buff to Evasion/Physical damage Rangers. But overall I feel it'll be maybe a 5% buff to most Rangers.
But I'm looking at your build and I'm confused why you're not going for Acrobatics. I understand you're wearing an Armor chestpiece, but if you're not investing in more than 1k armor then Acrobatics would be an incredible boost. Attack speed is better than projectile damage since you're going Life on Hit, and a few minor nodes is suggested to be removed in order to get some of the better Keystones.
Here is when I spent some time to go over the Skill Tree.. but I can't come up with a good Evasion build. Slightly more efficient but nothing I would recommend for play past Cruel. I'll have to spend more time on it, I'll let you know if I come up with anything. In the mean time let us know how it goes
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - Chesspiece_face - 07-17-2013
So far I've noticed a large increase in both my survivability and damage. I gained a good 4% crit chance from somewhere, I'm not sure where it came from yet but for my build it's a massive upgrade.
I don't see the upgrades to Evasion strong enough to go straight evasion at the moment. They did make it much easier to get the needed Health pool without sacrificing quite as much, but there are still a lot of sacrifices that are required just based on equipment.
I'm still very skeptical of the ability to balance these two types of defenses for Rangers so that Evasion is a choice that isn't sub-par. This creates a big problem where Rangers are either still wasting a lot of their development time racing to another section of the tree or they invest in the obvious options earlier and then regret their choices later. In the second instance it is now many times more difficult to evolve your character away from Evasion if you invest in it early than it was previously.
Edit: This is the tree I am looking at now. Any extra points will end up going into the accessible ES or Crit nodes.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - shoju - 07-17-2013
My hope is to eventually switch over to full on Life Leech, I just don't have another Life Leech Gem yet.
I haven't gone for acrobatics yet, and I'm not sure what I'm going to do, because I'm not 100% sold on the changes to evasion. The early boost to evasion and life totals means that in the short term, I have more evasion, but I'm not sure if it will mean that overall, I will end up with more evasion.
Call my "long term tree" more of a guide at this point, as I'm still not sure if I'm going for Iron Reflexes, or if I'm going for Acrobatics.
That is a problem that I'm having as well. Once you get into Merc Levels, Evasion tree options are still.... lackluster. Part of that, stems from the lack of synergy outside of the Ranger area with Evasion.
There is the Evasion cluster "behind" the ranger starting area, but the clusters on the way up to it are really sort of "meh" to be quite honest. The mixed bag bow node is ok, but then skill duration, mana regen, and a really unimpressive life cluster the rest of the way up are "eh..... maybe?" at best options, leaving it a run up to just the evasion really. I still might head that way if I go through with staying Evasion, but I'm just not sure on Evasion yet. It will probably be a little bit of "feeling it out" with evasion for a bit. Maybe into early merc.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - MonTy - 07-17-2013
(07-17-2013, 03:09 AM)Chesspiece_face Wrote: Edit: This is the tree I am looking at now. Any extra points will end up going into the accessible ES or Crit nodes.
I like the build, a lot. I think it'll be far more successful than a pure evasion build. May I recommend to take Heart of Oak in the start to help avoid stuns, unless you play Standard and have Eye of Chayula. Few other tidbits is to take Ondar's Guile which will double your evade chance for projectiles. Also not taking Lethality next to Ondar's is a crime, since you're right there. Here's what I recommend, http://goo.gl/xQmFR - and if you don't mind I may attempt this build on Standard :P
*edit - forgot that you may need a bit more strength for life leech. Thankfully some +30 nodes are close-by.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - Chesspiece_face - 07-17-2013
(07-17-2013, 03:39 AM)MonTy Wrote: I like the build, a lot. I think it'll be far more successful than a pure evasion build. May I recommend to take Heart of Oak in the start to help avoid stuns, unless you play Standard and have Eye of Chayula. Few other tidbits is to take Ondar's Guile which will double your evade chance for projectiles. Also not taking Lethality next to Ondar's is a crime, since you're right there. Here's what I recommend, http://goo.gl/xQmFR - and if you don't mind I may attempt this build on Standard
*edit - forgot that you may need a bit more strength for life leech. Thankfully some +30 nodes are close-by.
I actually do have lethality. Just forgot to click it in. I was using Ondar's Guile when I had a decent evade chance but got rid of it when my evade started dropping as I wasn't 100% sure how the passive worked. I'm getting to the point now where every passive node is precious and doubling close to nothing isn't all that great. I've also not taken the stun reduction as I've just not really had an issue with it so far.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - shoju - 07-17-2013
I can only think of two times that I've had problems with stuns that were noticable. Both were on Brutus. I still took the nodes, because I don't EVER want that happening again.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - MonTy - 07-17-2013
Chesspiece_face Wrote:...when my evade started dropping...
Are you running Grace? I would consider that a must-have for a build that boost evasion.
And yea, at the beginning of the game passives come so quick you don't think much of it. But in the 80s it was taking me a week to level, so every point does count. If your Evasion is indeed low it's fine not to use Ondar's Guile. On a side note, isn't it disheartening to gain a new level late in your character, only to have to invest in a +10 stat node? :P When I spent a few days farming my standard marauder and was rewarded with a +10 strength node, I was not thrilled!
Anyhow, let us know how the build goes. Usually stun becomes more of an issue in late map content against fast attacking creatures. Even then I learned that passive is not additive to the inherit 50% chance to avoid stun against your ES pool, so it would only be 65%.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - shoju - 07-17-2013
I haven't seen a Grace Skill Gem yet. I'm not sure what level chess is. I'm hoping to track one down myself.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - shoju - 07-17-2013
I guess I should have updated with my progress. I played for about 90 minutes late last night. I died, twice. Both..... ~my fault. First time I died was to the "boss" in Lunaris 3, the lightning striking whip chick. I pulled a huge pack, and didn't notice that she was in there until I was dying faster than I was leeching / LGoH.
Second time, I was at the Teleport for Piety, and didn't realize I hadn't pulled a pack off to the side until they were on top of me, killing off that magic pack.
So far, Evasion is holding up as "viable", even in the craziest of situations in Lunaris Cruel Level 3.
How will that hold up in Merc? I'm not sure. but both deaths were solely my fault. Overpull / missed boss / missed pack is all on player error. I am beginning to think that the lightning splash from LA can proc Blind, and I'm loving that totem more and more. It's a HUGE distraction. It makes Kole a joke, and it's a nice little added effect on larger pulls.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - Chesspiece_face - 07-18-2013
(07-17-2013, 05:42 PM)MonTy Wrote: Are you running Grace? I would consider that a must-have for a build that boost evasion.
I don't run Grace. Although I have taken the ES/Evasion nodes in the upper ranger section I don't use them for the Evasion. They are just very good quality ES nodes and lead to very strong ES/ES regen/Resist nodes. The Evasion is just an added bonus at that point. I think my total Evasion is 11% right now. Possibly high enough to warrant picking up Ondar's Grace, but it's still a very high price especially if I don't really need it.
Ever since I swapped to hard ES I dropped Grace and picked up Discipline. My other two auras at the moment are Wrath and Anger.
I'm presently 70 (almost 71) and am running Docks and Battlefront consistently. I could probably push through and finish Merciless but at the moment I'm just having fun blowing up those two areas. I'll probably gain a few levels doing that and then turn to maps.
Regarding life leach; What exactly counts as this? Does it have to specifically state Leach as the mods on rings and ammys do? Or will Life on Hit stats effect that as well? Eventually I want to get Rings and an Ammy that has 2% each, but that is down the line a bit. I've not yet committed to CI so I'm not using Leach to supplement my ES at the moment. But I will be dropping those last points in pretty soon.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - MonTy - 07-18-2013
(07-18-2013, 12:16 AM)Chesspiece_face Wrote: I don't run Grace.
I would strongly recommend to run Grace if you have 120+ dex with your character. It of course depends on your mana, but evading damage would really help out a lot in map content. If you're not using now, just keep it in mind if your survivability drops.
(07-18-2013, 12:16 AM)Chesspiece_face Wrote: Regarding life leach; What exactly counts as this?
"Life on Hit" will not count as "Life Leech". You'll need the skill gem "Life Leech" linked with your combat skill. You can also get life leech from items, but it's probably not enough.
From the wiki
"Skills supported by this gem will leech life back to the player, based on how much damage they deal.
Unlike life leech from other sources such as passive skills and equipment, the life leech from this gem works with any damage type, not just physical. However, it does not cause damage over time effects to leech life. The rate of life gained from life leech is 20% of maximum life per second. Improving gem quality increases the life gain rate."
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - shoju - 07-18-2013
Am into Merc. Dropped Piety, and it was by far the easiest Piety I have had on any character since my summoner. I died once, but that was a desync that pulled me out from behind a pillar and back into the path of the ice arrows. Desync happens though, so I'm not terribly upset. It was still a very easy kill, and she MELTED. As in, I only had one round of adds spawn from the middle before she ate pavement.
I also leveled again, hitting 54. I'm pretty pleased with how things are shaping up. I guess now we'll see how Merciless Evasion treats me. I am excited to get to AII, and get my 7th Frenzy Charge.
From the way it looks, I'm going to be farming heavily to get better gear, as My resists are going to be down the drain. i was at 73F, 75C, 75L, and -8C, and it was REALLY close on all of them.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - Chesspiece_face - 07-18-2013
(07-18-2013, 02:02 PM)MonTy Wrote: "Life on Hit" will not count as "Life Leech". You'll need the skill gem "Life Leech" linked with your combat skill. You can also get life leech from items, but it's probably not enough.
From the wiki
"Skills supported by this gem will leech life back to the player, based on how much damage they deal.
Unlike life leech from other sources such as passive skills and equipment, the life leech from this gem works with any damage type, not just physical. However, it does not cause damage over time effects to leech life. The rate of life gained from life leech is 20% of maximum life per second. Improving gem quality increases the life gain rate."
Ah. I don't believe I've come across one of these yet.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - shoju - 07-19-2013
Going to cross 55 next time I play. Up to Ledge in Merc. Haven't attempted the Fetid Pool yet. I'm hoping / wanting / praying for a few upgrades between now and then. Mainly, I would love to find a nice 4+ L thicket bow at a reasonable price, and hope that I can get a really nice Phys roll on it.
I've upped my Resistances to 75L, and 45 ish C & F. I still don't have much Chaos, but I'm hoping it will come with time. I also find another nice Ranger Boot Unique. I'd Love to be able to sell off some of my uniques, and pocket enough to just outright buy a nice Thicket, but I doubt that will happen.
If anyone runs across a 4+L Thicket in Anarchy, let me know. i'm interested. Doesn't need to be rare. I'll take anything, and roll it up myself if need be.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - shoju - 07-22-2013
Getting close to finishing up A1 Merc. Ondar's Guile is hilarious. Still holding just over 50% Evasion. Before I get to Merveil, I definitely need to pick up some more cold resistance. I'm still in the mid to high 40's on that. So...... yeah.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - shoju - 07-22-2013
Found a 20% Thicket with 4 sockets on it, so I just Alch'd it, and ended up with a slick Thicket. I'm up to 56, Merveil is dead, and I didn't do what I planned, and find more Cold res. I went in at 48%, and rocked her. Phase 1 was the hardest. I had to run around, and keep an LA totem up and running on her so that I could whittle her down. That took ~10 minutes. Phase 2 took 30 seconds
My gear is starting to get a little long in the tooth, but it's not going too bad yet. I'm hoping that I can at least long enough in what I have to get to the Church without much trouble, at which point, I'll probably get back to farming for a bit, if for nothing else to get some levels under my belt. Cruel Vaal was unbearable, I have a feeling that Merc Vaal is going to reduce me to a puddle on the floor quite often.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - shoju - 07-24-2013
Things are still going swimmingly, but I'm curious if there is anyone else in A2 Merc, that might want to group soon for the Pyramid and vaal. I'm not a huge fan of the fight (no surprise to those who come here), and my Cruel Experience with Vaal as a Ranger was....... Well... Brutal to say the least.
If someone wanted to gruop up, I would get my butt out of farming mode, and finish up A2 so that we could group up, kill Vaal, and be done with it.
RE: Initial Ranger reactions to 11.2 - LochnarITB - 07-24-2013
(07-24-2013, 04:22 PM)shoju Wrote: but I'm curious if there is anyone else in A2 Merc, that might want to group soon for the Pyramid and vaal.
Anarchy, correct? Sorry, I haven't even tried Anarchy. I get myself killed too much in Standard as it is. I have a big problem not being able to say to myself, "You should run now!" It more tends to be, "Rawwrrrr... splat!"
