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+--- Thread: Life in 1.10f and how the bandit rewards stack up (/thread-15353.html)
Life in 1.10f and how the bandit rewards stack up - CelticHound - 06-21-2013
So patch 1.1 lowered damage and dropped most life node down to 6%.
How does that affect the relative value of the bandit rewards in Normal?
Is Oak's +40 Life worth more than ever?
In the past, I was taking the +8 resists, but it turns out I die to Chaos damage more than anything else.
RE: Life in 1.10f and how the bandit rewards stack up - shoju - 06-21-2013
More often than not, I take the 40 hp, unless I'm going CI. If I am going CI, I take either the mana or the resists depending on what type of character it is.
On my summoner, I took 40 mana.
On my Wander, I took the resists.
On my FP, I plan on taking the mana.
RE: Life in 1.10f and how the bandit rewards stack up - CelticHound - 06-21-2013
Chaos Innoculation was so over powered when I started that I've always avoided it. Maybe I'll try it out for my next character. I've already killed Alira with this one, so mana isn't an option.
I'm sorta kinda recreating the first character I'd played in PoE - a fire summoner. Or perhaps I could take the resists and go CI. As a summoner, I've never felt mana was an issue, but I also never ran thousands auras at once either.
How well do you think GGG succeeded in making life nodes less mandatory with 1.10?
RE: Life in 1.10f and how the bandit rewards stack up - shoju - 06-21-2013
Well, With my Frenzy Ranger, I think they are still pretty mandatory. I already have 104% increased health from nodes, and I'm looking to get at least another 42% in nodes, possibly as much as another 64%
Maybe, if I were trying something other than evasion, I wouldn't feel this way. It might be that evasion is still woefully underpowered. Now, the changes coming in .11.1 with being able to evade charge, I might not feel "as bad". We'll see though. There is a part of me that still wants to ditch all the evasion nodes, run straight for Iron Reflexes, and go Armor.
Evasion is incredibly frustrating right now, and I'll be the first to admit that it could color my perception of the damage values.
RE: Life in 1.10f and how the bandit rewards stack up - MonTy - 06-22-2013
Yea, I've found flat health bonuses to be even more valuable. After the patch I want Kaom's Heart even more ;)
Several people I know have said the developers plan to allow bandit choice respec, but I haven't been able to find a source.
RE: Life in 1.10f and how the bandit rewards stack up - LennyLen - 06-23-2013
Quote:Several people I know have said the developers plan to allow bandit choice respec, but I haven't been able to find a source.
I did read a post by Chris where he said it was something they were considering. I don't believe it's a definite plan at this point.
edit: Actually, it was Bex that said it would be done at some unspecified point. See here.
RE: Life in 1.10f and how the bandit rewards stack up - Chesspiece_face - 06-24-2013
(06-21-2013, 04:55 PM)shoju Wrote: Well, With my Frenzy Ranger, I think they are still pretty mandatory. I already have 104% increased health from nodes, and I'm looking to get at least another 42% in nodes, possibly as much as another 64%
Maybe, if I were trying something other than evasion, I wouldn't feel this way. It might be that evasion is still woefully underpowered. Now, the changes coming in .11.1 with being able to evade charge, I might not feel "as bad". We'll see though. There is a part of me that still wants to ditch all the evasion nodes, run straight for Iron Reflexes, and go Armor.
Evasion is incredibly frustrating right now, and I'll be the first to admit that it could color my perception of the damage values.
I've found just the opposite with my evasion ranger. I've invested a bit into %Health but I'm still sitting at around 800 health with 80ish ES at the very end of Cruel. I'm level 52 I think and the only thing that has killed me since I was forced to cheese Oak has been desyncs and Puncture mobs when I accidentally used my De-Bleed potion in the previous fight (usually those things come together).
Now more health can obviously give a greater buffer for those situations and I definitely won't say it's not valuable but I think the biggest thing that offers survivability is resistances. I've been sitting at 70+ on all of my resistances for nearly all of Cruel.
I've also been able to supplement my low HP, however, by using potions that have +charges on crit and I am sitting at nearly 30% crit at the moment. So potion-spam tanking is occasionally required. Especially versus Health regen champs.
Obviously my experiences are fairly limited as this is the only character I've played so far, but I've definitely not found that it's the end all be all so far.
RE: Life in 1.10f and how the bandit rewards stack up - Chesspiece_face - 07-09-2013
So I've played a good bit further into my character now and I feel I've gotten as far as I can go as an Evasion Ranger without serious grinding to get the best of the best gear.
I know Shoju has had some misgivings of the abilities of Evasion as a defensive stat, but even coming full-on to the wall I've hit I still feel Evasion is fine. The problem with Evasion isn't a problem with Evasion at all. It's a problem with Life as it stands now. I don't see any reason why one would choose to play a Life based character when they have the option to go ES/CI. Let's break it down:
-ES is more readily available and in greater amounts than health on items giving you a much greater base pool which, in turn, gives your % nodes a much larger payout and point for point makes those nodes more effective than health % nodes.
-For a single point not too far from CI you can turn all of your life steal so that it works on your ES.
-ES/CI effectively gives you free potions just by retreating from combat for a short time.
-A second effect of this is that it frees up all of your potion slots that would have otherwise been used for health potions. Full Quicksilver? Go for it!!
-ES not only gives greater pay-outs for effective health, it does so more efficiently when it comes to stat allocation on items.
There is a serious issue that permeates through all Life-based defenses in the game right now and it's not an easy fix as far as I can see. If I were to break it right down the easiest way to bring things back into balance is to just get rid of the node that allows you to allocate your life leach towards ES. ES already has free built-in super potions, the ability to leach into it as well is a bit ridiculous.
RE: Life in 1.10f and how the bandit rewards stack up - LennyLen - 07-10-2013
There are a couple of caveats with ES/CI however, such as being prone to stunning and elemental effects as well as having no good fix for DoT. I've died on more than one occasion to puncturing when the initial hit has taken out most of my ES, and then the DoT has killed me before my ES recharges. This is even when standing still to mitigate puncture damage.
The puncture mobs in the Sarn Marketplace are especially nasty, as they'll cyclone through my summons and attack me directly sometimes. If they crit, I die.
RE: Life in 1.10f and how the bandit rewards stack up - shoju - 07-10-2013
I disagree that ES is the problem. If you go CI, you have nothing but your ES, and any armor / evasion you may have acquired. That's it. ES is always there. Armor is always there. The problem with evasion, even with the model that GGG has implemented, is that Evasion is not "always there". I think my problem with Evasion in this, is the same problem that I've always had with evasion.
It's random. It's still All or nothing.
Once I turned all my Evasion into Armor Via Iron Reflexes, my survivability went through the roof. I don't fear things anymore. i don't have to run (as much). I'm able to stand in there, and get things done.
The big problem with evasion I'm finding, is that if you go Pure Evasion, you either need to be able to achieve high amounts of Evasion, Movement Speed, and Life, or don't bother trying. It is just the least useful "damage prevention" mechanic in the game.
Personally, I don't think that they have done enough to balance out damage V health yet. I'm still able to get absolutely wrecked on my Templar, with a Granite up, near 12k armor, and facing Kole in A2 Cruel.
My hope, is that the patch slated for early next week that is to deal with mob accuracy and evasion, and the ranger tree will work to shore up the problem of Monster Damage, and the sucktitude of Evasion.
RE: Life in 1.10f and how the bandit rewards stack up - Chesspiece_face - 07-11-2013
(07-10-2013, 03:25 PM)shoju Wrote: I disagree that ES is the problem.
Let me clarify: I don't think ES is the problem. Although I do think that in the present balance of the game it is vastly overpowered.
Here is the issue with Life based defenses (Armor and Evasion) when compared to ES; ES seems, at it's core, to be designed as a defense choice that can stand on it's own. The ES stats you can find on items provide you with a greater base pool of defense than you can obtain from life. This in turn is magnified by the passive tree which allocates large clusters of ES nodes all within one section of the tree which means if you go for that space in the tree you have a one stop shopping center for all your defensive needs. You don't have that option with Life based defenses. You can't just take Evasion and hope to live. You can't just take Armor and hope to live either. Whether intentional or not when you choose to build a life based character you need to invest heavily, not only, in life but also in Evasion or Armor. Add to this the fact that those nodes are often spread out haphazardly around the tree and this leads to vast opportunity costs associated with that playstyle that ES characters never have to worry about.
Pound for pound Evasion is the greatest damage mitigator in the game. The problem is to survive the possible spike damage in the game you also have to have a viable health pool to support it.
Which brings up the major issue. Specifically for rangers to go with Evasion they need to invest in Evasion, Life, Strength (For larger base pool of life even though they don't need it), Dexterity, and Intelligence and somewhere in there try to find damage nodes. Then they need to try to get gear that will in some way support the absolute cluster &*&% of needs they have just to equal the efficacy that an ES character can get just by grabbing a set of nodes that are conveniently located all around each other.
RE: Life in 1.10f and how the bandit rewards stack up - MonTy - 07-11-2013
Some good comments in this thread about Evasion and ES. Evasion is very possible late game, I had a 66 running maps that was pure Evasion. It's amazing for slower and harder hitting monsters. But otherwise it'll require more life and stun immunity via Eye of Chayula. I wouldn't play a pure Evasion in the new leagues that don't have that unique.
ES is also widely recognized as the best route to take for high level map play. People are able to get to ten thousand plus Energy Shield with instant Life Leech via Vaal Pact and Ghost Reaver.
In fact I'm kicking myself for not doing this with my current Freeze Pulser in Onslaught. He's 73 and doing just fine, but not great. Life is at 3.9k, armor 5k, and 78 to all resistances (-18 Chaos). Similar ES builds are getting to 8k ES and instant life leech. It's really the instant leech that makes it so powerful. My life will dip to 1k at times and I'll have to hit my health potions and run away. With ES build you could just stay and attack, gain more life and probably freeze the enemies as well.
Also I found out the real trick to Freeze Pulse is not actually the Cold damage. It's added Chaos or Added Lightning that are the real damage dealers when you combine all the cast speed and critical strikes from the build. Chaos bypasses any normal resistances and ES, and Lightning causes shocks. Now I'm being stubborn and sticking to my Cold damage build, but I've grouped with FP'ers who are doing a lot more damage than myself and using either Added Chaos or Added Lightning. Thankfully he's getting stronger as I level the FP gem up and now that I have a 20% FP gem along with quality Life Leech. I hope to get him to 80+ in Onslaught.