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TSA controversy - kandrathe - 11-19-2010
Personally, I'm not flying again until they sort out the security theater. It's become too much of a hassle to fly. I told my friends after the shoe bomber incident, where the response was to force everyone to remove their shoes, that it wouldn't be long before we lost all dignity.
I flew with my children to California a few times after 911, and it was hell. In 2003, I had the opportunity to fly private jet with the company I was working for at the time. Man, what a difference. I arrived at the private terminal, showed my ID to the gate guard and he logged me in. I parked and brought my bags up to the door, where an attendant took them to load on the plane. They knew everyone who was flying that day, and we waited in a nice lounge talking until everyone arrived and was ready to go. Then, the pilot came out to the lobby, talked to us for a few minutes and we boarded the plane and took off. Same on the return flight. I was safe. Why?
My contract to fly is with the airline, and not the government. The airlines should handle pre-screening their passengers to ensure the safety of the flight. They should also only have to do this once per passenger every once in awhile (even if it required a full criminal background check). If you are a pilot, or crew, or even if you are a regular passenger, why should you have to begin at "criminal" every time you fly? We have the technology (ID card, plus pin, plus biometrics) to ensure that a person is the person permitted to fly. So, rather than a poorly enforced, vague "do not fly" list. Every flight should have a "permitted to fly" list. Then it's as easy as checking in, proving you are the person who's on the list, and boarding the plane.
Of the millions of people who've flown since 911 in the US, how many has the TSA caught who intended to disrupt the flight? Yes, they caught some bad guys who didn't intend to do anything on the plane, but so do random traffic stops. The answer as far as I've seen has been zero. They've never stopped a terrorist yet.
I guess I'm one of those who is not willing to give up liberty to presumably purchase the illusion of some security.
RE: TSA controversy - Jester - 11-19-2010
(11-19-2010, 09:07 PM)kandrathe Wrote: I guess I'm one of those who is not willing to give up liberty to presumably purchase the illusion of some security.
Amen.
-Jester
RE: TSA controversy - Taem - 11-20-2010
I find this very interesting, because I was talking with my employees about just this today. They told me they had some customers from, I believe Turky, and another from Greece, who claimed our "screening methods" were finally catching up with theirs. They implied that in their country, they undergo this type of rigorous screening with each flight, and they are so used to it, that they don't even bat an eyelash. I cannot speak to the validity of any of this except to say its all hearsay, however I can't help but find it interesting that we has this conversation the same time you posted this. But I suppose with all the news about it, it was inevitable.
RE: TSA controversy - kandrathe - 11-20-2010
(11-20-2010, 05:23 AM)MEAT Wrote: I find this very interesting, because I was talking with my employees about just this today. They told me they had some customers from, I believe Turky, and another from Greece, who claimed our "screening methods" were finally catching up with theirs. They implied that in their country, they undergo this type of rigorous screening with each flight, and they are so used to it, that they don't even bat an eyelash. I cannot speak to the validity of any of this except to say its all hearsay, however I can't help but find it interesting that we has this conversation the same time you posted this. But I suppose with all the news about it, it was inevitable.I've been to Greece quite often, and have never been fondled and groped by security. I haven't been to Turkey, but I've traveled through some of the most secure airports in the world.
I have had my luggage hand searched, which I find totally acceptable. I've been personally guarded by machine gun armed soldiers, and I've been to bases where I've needed to be blind folded while waiting for the plane.
Annoying, but acceptable. The whole problem in my opinion is that the freedom we are allowing is the ability for anyone to walk up to the counter at the last minute and get on the plane. That means the plane is filled with mostly unknown (untrustworthy) travelers. I would rather sacrifice my anonymity while traveling, than my freedom.
We already have implemented a 24 hour background check for the purchase of firearms. Why not the same process for the purchase of airline tickets? If you must fly last minute, then you will be more thoroughly scrutinized at the airport. Otherwise, proof of identity, bomb sniffers, metal detectors, compression chambers for luggage and psychological screening (asking questions) should be enough.
There is no need for us to be stripped (even mechanically) and searched if we are otherwise trustworthy. In fact, if we were found to be fully trustworthy, there would be no problem with everyone on the plane being armed with machine guns and grenades.
RE: TSA controversy - NuurAbSaal - 11-20-2010
(11-20-2010, 05:39 PM)kandrathe Wrote: I've been to Greece quite often, and have never been fondled and groped by security.
Have you tried asking nicely?
take care
Tarabulus
RE: TSA controversy - --Pete - 11-20-2010
Hi,
(11-20-2010, 09:18 PM)NuurAbSaal Wrote:(11-20-2010, 05:39 PM)kandrathe Wrote: I've been to Greece quite often, and have never been fondled and groped by security.
Have you tried asking nicely?
take care
Tarabulus
Well played.
--Pete
RE: TSA controversy - DeeBye - 11-21-2010
Like the guy said, the only people I want touching my junk are my wife and maybe my doctor.
RE: TSA controversy - Rhydderch Hael - 11-21-2010
(11-21-2010, 01:25 AM)DeeBye Wrote: Like the guy said, the only people I want touching my junk are my wife and maybe my doctor.I'll simply have to rely on my Kryptonian powers.
Still have much trouble flying into walls, though.
RE: TSA controversy - kandrathe - 11-21-2010
(11-20-2010, 09:18 PM)NuurAbSaal Wrote:I was thinking of asking for multiple female security screeners, but the reality is always more disappointing than the fantasy.(11-20-2010, 05:39 PM)kandrathe Wrote: I've been to Greece quite often, and have never been fondled and groped by security.
Have you tried asking nicely?
take care
Tarabulus
RE: TSA controversy - shoju - 11-22-2010
I agree with Kandrathe.
I'm not very agreeable with the TSA, their practices, or their employees at the "customer level". I could go on and on about it, but I will try to keep it brief.
The TSA boasts that it has found drugs, and tons of banned devices, but I have yet to see them thwart a terrorist plot. They actually failed an internal test at Denver, letting 90% of IED's through screening.
I don't feel safer because of them, I actually feel the need to double check my belonings (24 TSA agents since 2007 have been arrested and charged with varying degrees of Felonius theft)
I don't like the backscatter machines, and the super awesome naked pictures it creates (if you don't think it makes you naked, google "TSA arrested for assault over little manhood" and read the various stories about it.
I don't feel that I should need to be subjected to an "Enhanced Pat Down" as punishment for declining Backscatter imaging
My solutions to the problem are unpopular because it would force the TSA to reorganize, fire most of their current screeners, and start over with higher employment requirements (currently, you don't need a GED or Diploma if you have the right background), Civil Service Testing, and make them more of a law enforcement agency that I don't know.... made sure you weren't trying to be a terrorist, and not detain you because you have ~$5k in a locked cashbox.
I don't know who came up with the term "Security Theater" but it most certainly is Theater.
RE: TSA controversy - ShadowHM - 11-22-2010
(11-20-2010, 09:18 PM)NuurAbSaal Wrote:(11-20-2010, 05:39 PM)kandrathe Wrote: I've been to Greece quite often, and have never been fondled and groped by security.
Have you tried asking nicely?
take care
Tarabulus
I did try asking nicely on my last flight. However, I was informed that it would not be the good looking man who checked the last traveller who would be undertaking the task. Instead it would be his partner, the tough-looking woman beside him. So I opted to walk through the x-ray scanner instead.
RE: TSA controversy - eppie - 11-23-2010
(11-19-2010, 09:07 PM)kandrathe Wrote: Personally, I'm not flying again until they sort out the security theater. It's become too much of a hassle to fly. I told my friends after the shoe bomber incident, where the response was to force everyone to remove their shoes, that it wouldn't be long before we lost all dignity.
I think one big reason for this type of security measures is that they are nice and visible so they can keep people scared. I mean go undercover with 1000 marines in Afghanistan and catch Bin Laden is nice but the public doesn't see what you are doing so it will not get you any extra votes.
I think also the security industry has a big lobby trying to keep their markets intact. Any idea how much such a body scanner costs? If they have to pot 20 of those on all big and medium sized airport you talk about billions of dollars.
RE: TSA controversy - Kevin - 11-23-2010
(11-21-2010, 03:55 AM)kandrathe Wrote: I was thinking of asking for multiple female security screeners, but the reality is always more disappointing than the fantasy.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/message-from-tsa/1261478/
RE: TSA controversy - kandrathe - 11-23-2010
(11-23-2010, 01:25 PM)Gnollguy Wrote:(11-21-2010, 03:55 AM)kandrathe Wrote: I was thinking of asking for multiple female security screeners, but the reality is always more disappointing than the fantasy.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/message-from-tsa/1261478/
I found this interesting story by Penn Jillette. I agree with him. If you do have to fly, give yourself the time to become the square peg in TSA's round hole. File a complaint, if they assault you (touch you without permission) then get the police involved. Make the TSA, the airline and the airport all answer for what has been done to you as a customer (citizen).
RE: TSA controversy - --Pete - 11-23-2010
Hi,
(11-23-2010, 01:25 PM)Gnollguy Wrote: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/message-from-tsa/1261478/
Thanks.--Pete
RE: TSA controversy - Tal - 11-24-2010
Adam Savage manages to make it through Airport Security with two 12 inch long razor blades.
RE: TSA controversy - kandrathe - 11-24-2010
(11-24-2010, 01:34 AM)Tal Wrote: Adam Savage manages to make it through Airport Security with two 12 inch long razor blades.
![[Image: cartoon112410.jpg]](http://www.truth-out.org/files/images/cartoon112410.jpg)