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Computer Q - Taem - 11-14-2010
[LONG-STORY]
Alright, my wives motherboard just died on her 3-year old computer (we didn't get the extended warranty either
). I was pulling out components and resetting the BIOS, checking the disk scans and what-not; after trial-and-error testing all the components I could, I'm 100% positive her motherboard is fried, which really ticks me off because we got her a nice APC battery back-up with her computer, which did not start hard-freezing until after a recent lightening storm which cause stop-n-go electricity to the house!Anyways, even her 3-year old computer is outdated by today's standards! I haven't gotten PC World or any tech based mag's for years since I built my last two computers almost... I guess 7-8 years ago! I see all this new stuff, like 6-core processors, 18-gigs of RAM (wtf? 18-gigs?), 1-TB Satas, USB 3.0, PCIx2, etc... Wow, and I thought my computer was the bees-knees! So I don't have a lot of money to work with ATM, kids braces coming up, new car in the near future, other BIG expenses; a computer just wasn't on the bill, but it happened anyways, as the unexpected usually does.
[/LONG-STORY]
Alright, so I was looking at reasonably priced refurbished computers at Best Buy when I saw this: Link . The price is good, and a comparable one at Fry's not refurbished is 1.2k. So my next and I guess obvious question, is this thing powerful enough for today's games, such as Call of Duty Black Ops, Star Craft, or (most importantly) the upcoming Diablo 3? If yes to all of these, then my dreams have come true! I was looking to BYO again because it's so enjoyable making your own system - and you learn so much in the process - but the costs of doing that are far greater than what I can afford. This is without a doubt a better deal from what I've seen. But is it good enough to handle what I want? Thoughts?
RE: Computer Q - LavCat - 11-14-2010
(11-14-2010, 07:48 AM)MEAT Wrote: Alright, so I was looking at reasonably priced refurbished computers at Best Buy when I saw this: Link . The price is good, and a comparable one at Fry's not refurbished is 1.2k. So my next and I guess obvious question, is this thing powerful enough for today's games, such as Call of Duty Black Ops, Star Craft, or (most importantly) the upcoming Diablo 3? If yes to all of these, then my dreams have come true! I was looking to BYO again because it's so enjoyable making your own system - and you learn so much in the process - but the costs of doing that are far greater than what I can afford. This is without a doubt a better deal from what I've seen. But is it good enough to handle what I want? Thoughts?
Yes, but what keyboard and pointing device does it come with??
More seriously, whenever I hear "refurbished" I think of "used", which makes me think someone found something wrong with a piece of equipment and that it's not going to work. Like my answering machine.
On the other hand, the HP is a nice price, and would probably be suitable for your purpose, except for the 5450 graphics card which would not, and would have to be replaced. The power supply may or may not handle a higher end card.
Why not replace the motherboard in the system that you have?
RE: Computer Q - Taem - 11-14-2010
(11-14-2010, 10:09 AM)LavCat Wrote: More seriously, whenever I hear "refurbished" I think of "used", which makes me think someone found something wrong with a piece of equipment and that it's not going to work. Like my answering machine.
Yes, I know, which is why I'd get the 4-year extended warranty this time!
(11-14-2010, 10:09 AM)LavCat Wrote: Why not replace the motherboard in the system that you have?
Two reasons: time, and money.
TIME: Doing that takes up a lot of time pulling out each and every component, at least a couple of hours. With all four of my kids in after-school sports and three of them on the fence with school, and between work, believe me, I cherish every hour I have.
MONEY: Inevitably, something is going to get zapped in the moving process, always does. Usually RAM, but that costs money, and to figure out what the trouble is takes more time, which I don't have. That's not to say I haven't built a computer without any problems, it's just very rare *not* to encounter some sort of trouble in the process. And to be honest, that would be the cheapest road, however maybe this is part of my excuse to get a rig capable of running upcoming software? Didn't really give that much thought. Subconscious making its influence perhaps
?
RE: Computer Q - --Pete - 11-14-2010
Hi,
(11-14-2010, 07:48 AM)MEAT Wrote: . . . my wives . . .
My condolences. How many do you have?
(11-14-2010, 10:09 AM)LavCat Wrote: Why not replace the motherboard in the system that you have?
What she said.
You mentioned having built your own. This is a side benefit, when something goes poof and the magic smoke is released, you can troubleshoot (which you did) and repair (which you can do) yourself. If you keep all the components that are working, and only replace those that have died, you will probably end up with more for less. If you look for a mobo that supports both your present hardware and has a path to supporting newer hardware, you can have a constantly up-to-date (sorta) computer for less than the price of refurbished.
Don't assume that the memory and CPU are fried just because your mobo is. But don't spend a whole lot of effort trying to find a mobo that'll accept your present CPU. Ditto memory.
Whatever you decide, good luck.
EDIT: Just read your reply to LC. Good points, all, but still give it some thought. An hour here, one there and you'd probably have yours fixed in about a week.
--Pete
RE: Computer Q - Taem - 11-14-2010
@LavCat
You've been giving me some thought about the video card. That machine says it has "512MB (dedicated)". What would you recommend? It also says it has "2 PCI Express x1". What do you think that means (i.e. can I use PCI Express 2.0 and/or 2.1 devices)? Is 1gb of dedicated video memory enough for today's games, or is there an even higher standard that will work with that machine?
Thanks for all the input so far.
P.S., and 16gb of memory? Seriously, what do you need that for? Even 8gb seems excessive to me! Are these upcoming applications really utilizing that much memory at a time?
RE: Computer Q - Taem - 11-14-2010
(11-14-2010, 05:04 PM)--Pete Wrote: Hi,
An hour here, one there and you'd probably have yours fixed in about a week.
--Pete
And you've given me thought also. Her exact motherboard is less than $80.00 on newegg. And I could do it in an evening. Decision time. I guess it all is going to boil down to, "can you afford it?" Life goes on regardless. Thanks for your input also Pete.
RE: Computer Q - LavCat - 11-14-2010
(11-14-2010, 08:53 PM)MEAT Wrote: @LavCat
You've been giving me some thought about the video card. That machine says it has "512MB (dedicated)". What would you recommend? It also says it has "2 PCI Express x1". What do you think that means (i.e. can I use PCI Express 2.0 and/or 2.1 devices)? Is 1gb of dedicated video memory enough for today's games, or is there an even higher standard that will work with that machine?
Thanks for all the input so far.
P.S., and 16gb of memory? Seriously, what do you need that for? Even 8gb seems excessive to me! Are these upcoming applications really utilizing that much memory at a time?
The 5450, as I've seen it reviewed, has 512MB memory. I'd go with a card that had at least 1GB but 512MB is the least of the 5450's problems for current games.
The "x1" indicates the number of PCIe data lanes, not the PCIe standard revision number. Examples of x1 cards would include sound cards, USB cards, network cards. Video cards are x16. Unless you are running Crossfire or SLI you only need one x16 slot.
As to memory, my system has 4GB and that seems plenty to me. You have to be running a 64-bit OS to take advantage of even 4GB. Keep in mind that the only game I play is WoW, and I can't really address the games you listed.
RE: Computer Q - Drasca - 11-15-2010
(11-14-2010, 08:53 PM)MEAT Wrote: P.S., and 16gb of memory? Seriously, what do you need that for? Even 8gb seems excessive to me! Are these upcoming applications really utilizing that much memory at a time?
High end Dedicated 3D Rendering, Video Processing, Engineering Applications, and the occasional RAM-Disk, running games off ram directly is blazing...
I followed your OP link, and that is not a good computer even at the price listed (579$).
At Tomshardware.com they do system builder's contests and the 400$ rig would beat the refurbished at both prices:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-pc-build-a-pc-overclock,2739.html
Its pretty ridiculous, but it does have a better GPU. If you're willing to spend 1000 follow their 1k Rig, which is MUCH superior in performance and still less than the fry's purchase.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-a-pc-overclock-components,2735.html
RE: Computer Q - LavCat - 11-15-2010
(11-15-2010, 02:21 AM)Drasca Wrote: High end Dedicated 3D Rendering, Video Processing, Engineering Applications, and the occasional RAM-Disk, running games off ram directly is blazing...
Now if I could only find a way to run WoW from a ram disc...
(11-14-2010, 05:04 PM)--Pete Wrote:(11-14-2010, 07:48 AM)MEAT Wrote: . . . my wives . . .
My condolences. How many do you have?
It's a real shame that they all have to share the same computer.
RE: Computer Q - Taem - 11-15-2010
(11-15-2010, 03:24 AM)LavCat Wrote:(11-15-2010, 02:21 AM)Drasca Wrote: High end Dedicated 3D Rendering, Video Processing, Engineering Applications, and the occasional RAM-Disk, running games off ram directly is blazing...
Now if I could only find a way to run WoW from a ram disc...
(11-14-2010, 05:04 PM)--Pete Wrote:(11-14-2010, 07:48 AM)MEAT Wrote: . . . my wives . . .
My condolences. How many do you have?
It's a real shame that they all have to share the same computer.
Darn spell checker struck when I wasn't paying attention
.
RE: Computer Q - kandrathe - 11-15-2010
(11-14-2010, 04:58 PM)MEAT Wrote: ... And to be honest, that would be the cheapest road, however maybe this is part of my excuse to get a rig capable of running upcoming software? Didn't really give that much thought. Subconscious making its influence perhaps
Interesting. I bought two used machines from the college where I work for $100 each. They resell them after 3 years to employees, with OS (was XP). They are adequate for the boys, although they need some RAM.
I've been thinking about a new build... I'm working on pricing out the components. There is a local Microcenter near me that is beating out the internet stores, even with having to pay State sales tax.
Intel Core i7-950 3.06GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor - $295
Thermaltake Frio Overclocking-Ready Intel Core i7 (six-core ready) & i5 Compatible Five 8mm Heatpipes Dual 120mm Fans Intel & AMD Universal CPU Cooler - ~$59
CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory - ~$150
ZALMAN ZM1000-HP 1000W Continuous @ 45°C (Maximum Continuous Peak: 1250W) Modular Heatpipe-Cooled SLI Power Supply - ~$240
ASUS P6X58D-E ATX Intel Motherboard - ~$240
OCZ Agility Series OCZSSD2-1AGT60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - ~ $125
2x Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST3500418AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - ~$160
Antec Nine Hundred Black Computer Case (With Side Panel Window) - ~$100
2x XFX Core Edition GS250XYSL4 GeForce GTS 250 512MB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card - ~$220
Of course, it's more than $500, but maybe $1600 and I figure I'd be set for another 5 years, or so. I'll probably throw in DVD-RW such as the ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS for $38 and a cheaper DVD-R.
I've remodeled my other home grown PC a few times (built in 2003 iirc), with 3 GPU upgrades, a new larger power supply and additional HD's once the price was cheaper. Sometime soon, I'll need to upgrade mobo, CPU and memory on that one too (it's an AGP model - ASUS A7N8X-X).
The last proprietary machine I bought (1999) was a refurbished Dell Dimension XPS (which I finally shut down this year). It worked fine for my wife's use as a machine for internet browsing and office apps, but it wasn't beefy enough to upgrade past Windows 2000. They stopped supporting virus scanners for it, so it became too much of a liability to risk infections. I might try a light weight Linux build on it still though, but she needs a Windows box.
RE: Computer Q - DeeBye - 11-15-2010
(11-15-2010, 04:57 AM)kandrathe Wrote: ZALMAN ZM1000-HP 1000W Continuous @ 45°C (Maximum Continuous Peak: 1250W) Modular Heatpipe-Cooled SLI Power Supply - ~$240
I guarantee that this is extreme overkill.
RE: Computer Q - --Pete - 11-15-2010
Hi,
(11-15-2010, 04:57 AM)kandrathe Wrote: The last proprietary machine I bought (1999) was a refurbished Dell Dimension XPS (which I finally shut down this year). ... I might try a light weight Linux build on it still though, but she needs a Windows box.
I ran RedHat 5 (best as I can remember) on a late '80s machine, so I suspect you can find a distro that'll run on your antique. Other than laptops (all Toshiba and an iPad), my last (and only) premade machine was a 386, hot-rodded with a Cyrix (?) 386/486 chipset. Ah, memories.
--Pete
RE: Computer Q - kandrathe - 11-15-2010
(11-15-2010, 06:07 AM)DeeBye Wrote:Yes, yes it is.(11-15-2010, 04:57 AM)kandrathe Wrote: ZALMAN ZM1000-HP 1000W Continuous @ 45°C (Maximum Continuous Peak: 1250W) Modular Heatpipe-Cooled SLI Power Supply - ~$240
I guarantee that this is extreme overkill.
I could probably get by with;COOLER MASTER GX Series RS750-ACAAE3-US 750W ATX12V v2.31 SLI Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply for $90
With duel SLI, and quad core i7 (min. 130W) I'll be pushing 700W under load. I wouldn't want to go below 750W. Giving some room for newer SLI cards I might get in the future (250W each), I looked at the >750W range, so I was in the $150 to $200 range already.
I feel it would be better to build in the capacity now, and take advantage of the 86% efficiency. When the day comes when I need 1000W, I won't have to add in a new 1000W PS to the price tag of two new expensive SLI graphics cards. The Zalman is more efficient, quieter, and runs cooler than any other I could find for about $50 more than the one I might settle for.
Then again, it is a place I can trim some $ out of the build while still making a solid machine.
RE: Computer Q - Lissa - 11-15-2010
(11-15-2010, 06:07 AM)DeeBye Wrote:(11-15-2010, 04:57 AM)kandrathe Wrote: ZALMAN ZM1000-HP 1000W Continuous @ 45°C (Maximum Continuous Peak: 1250W) Modular Heatpipe-Cooled SLI Power Supply - ~$240
I guarantee that this is extreme overkill.
Depends if you want your PS to run optimally or not. Optimal for a PS is to draw half of it's maximum rating at all times (in this case, 500W out of 1000W).
RE: Computer Q - Taem - 11-15-2010
(11-15-2010, 04:57 AM)kandrathe Wrote: (it's an AGP model - ASUS A7N8X-X).
Good taste! The one in *my* rig (not my wife's) is ASUS A8N-Sli Deluxe. It still sings a pretty tune, but on this 32-bit machine, I'm maxed out at 4gb of Ram and a dual core processor. If I want to play with the big boys, I'll have to take the pieces from it I need and start over in a BYO system. But that's not going to happen for awhile; this one I will take my time on and build it from the ground up, this I promise you. My precious!
(11-15-2010, 06:07 AM)DeeBye Wrote:(11-15-2010, 04:57 AM)kandrathe Wrote: ZALMAN ZM1000-HP 1000W Continuous @ 45°C (Maximum Continuous Peak: 1250W) Modular Heatpipe-Cooled SLI Power Supply - ~$240
I guarantee that this is extreme overkill.
Lol, I was thinking the same thing! 1000w power supply with two 512 vid cards? I have an 800w in my computer with two 512 sli and never even come close to draining its power. Even at 1gb PCI vid cards, I doubt you will need that much power, unless you want to go with a Raid 10 (quad-sata hard drives) configuration. Just my opinion.
EDIT: Just saw last two replies in thread. Good idea to think ahead on power consumption. Giving me more thought about upcoming impending circumstances.
RE: Computer Q - Drasca - 11-16-2010
(11-15-2010, 04:57 AM)kandrathe Wrote: OCZ Agility Series OCZSSD2-1AGT60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - ~ $125
I'd wait on the SSD purchase until January. The new fab factories are online and the next generation of SSD's are swinging by just around the corner... so keep that price in mind, but be flexible on exact model you want. You might get twice as much capacity (and more performance) for the same price within 2 months.
I'm personally interested in the 3rd generation intel ssd's. They've already dropped prices on the 2nd generation a bit, and it'll only drop further as time passes. Looking forward to indilix's 2011 and Sandforce's next generation of ssd's too, but that'll be later.
RE: Computer Q - Wyrm - 11-18-2010
(11-15-2010, 04:57 AM)kandrathe Wrote: 2x XFX Core Edition GS250XYSL4 GeForce GTS 250 512MB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card - ~$220At that price point, I'd rather have a single 5850 card. Or, if you're devoted to nvidia, a gtx 465. Any specific reason you want the 250 instead of something newer? Seems a bit odd that you're pricing out an i7 and leaving the gpu so lacking.
MEAT Wrote:is this thing powerful enough for today's games, such as Call of Duty Black Ops, Star Craft, or (most importantly) the upcoming Diablo 3?No, no, doubtful but possible. You can change those answers to sort of, kinda, and yes if you plan on running at 1280x1024 with the graphics turned down. The 5450 is more of a "home theater with casual gaming" card than a gaming card.
RE: Computer Q - kandrathe - 11-19-2010
(11-18-2010, 04:55 AM)Wyrm Wrote:Yeah, your right. A friend offered to give me a used pair of used SLI cards so I just filled in a pair in the (2x$100) range that looked stable. For new I'd go with a pair of ASUS ENGTX460 1gb or comparable depending on the deals I could get (maybe here locally).(11-15-2010, 04:57 AM)kandrathe Wrote: 2x XFX Core Edition GS250XYSL4 GeForce GTS 250 512MB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card - ~$220At that price point, I'd rather have a single 5850 card. Or, if you're devoted to nvidia, a gtx 465. Any specific reason you want the 250 instead of something newer? Seems a bit odd that you're pricing out an i7 and leaving the gpu so lacking.
Drasca Wrote:I'd wait on the SSD purchase until January. The new fab factories are online and the next generation of SSD's are swinging by just around the corner... so keep that price in mind, but be flexible on exact model you want. You might get twice as much capacity (and more performance) for the same price within 2 months.Thanks. I hate to waste money buying things too early. I can wait a few months on the SSD to see what the market does. I'd like to get it big enough to handle the key OS, and most often used files from whatever I'm playing.
I'm personally interested in the 3rd generation intel ssd's. They've already dropped prices on the 2nd generation a bit, and it'll only drop further as time passes. Looking forward to indilix's 2011 and Sandforce's next generation of ssd's too, but that'll be later.
RE: Computer Q - DeeBye - 11-19-2010
(11-19-2010, 04:13 AM)kandrathe Wrote: I'd like to get it big enough to handle the key OS, and most often used files from whatever I'm playing.
That's what I am waiting for too. Something like a 120GB SSD for a reasonable price.