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Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - Conner Macleod - 02-22-2003
These are wishlists, although some might be making them right now.
Iron Golem Necromancers will continue to rule D2 until a better class is introducced. Do your part - agree or disagree.
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - Kharohz - 02-22-2003
Something else:
As Nebuul would tell you, you need a paladin resistance shield.
Why? Because all the rest is rather pointless. Your IG will die, no matter what. And your very rare item you made it out of will also disappear.
Iron Golems aren't made to diss out damage through hitting things, but rather through their thorns damage. So why not increase it's immunity (and you can't do this by using Damage reduce % item, that will only lower the thorns damage) to elements, and it is possible to make them 100% immune (with the exception of cold tree, due to piercing).
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - CrescentWindX - 02-22-2003
Those are some awfully expensive and hard to get items you're listing, Conner. If I had one of them, I certainly wouldn't make an Iron Golem out of it.
As Kharohz said, your golem will die. And when it does die, you will have lost the item you made it out of.
Myself, I'll use something easy to find, and durable - Bonesnap. In absence of that, a socketed paladin shield with diamonds also makes a very good choice.
edit: i kan tyep adn speel
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - yangman - 02-22-2003
Any decent ethereal item would do.
Ghosty golems are so cool. B)
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - TheVillageIdiot - 02-23-2003
Making an IG out of a paladin shield seems a bit pointless.
As you said the IG will die no matter what. So why bother collecting diamonds and finding and 4 socketed paladin shield when metal items are plentiful, I'd just summon another one.
Edit:Me=Stupid
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - Az3ar - 02-23-2003
I wouldnt sacrifice a good item just for my golem, it would die eventually, and that would be a waste of a very good item, that you could have used for another char, traing, or whatever your purpose.
I would just buy the cheapest sword or weapon I could find, and thats enough for me, high level IGs have very big hitpoints, and have enough thorns to be effective, and thats whithout factoring the amplify damage and merc whith it...
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - NERDmanWhippy - 02-26-2003
WOOOOT.....Finally found someone as Crazy as me ;)
I personally prefer Cruel War Pikes of ?????......The suffix can make for some unexpected fireworks in cows....
J
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - Conner Macleod - 02-26-2003
Crazy as you NerdMan? No, I'm into survival. We equip zons with Winforces, why not our golems the same? I know I've posted this in the workshop, but, come on guys, Necros are the truly elite class right? Cheap to build, expensive to play? Like a Ford car - you can buy one for cheap, but the breakdowns are gonna cost ya.
Don't tell me ya'll make golems from whatever is around you? That's poor Golem planning. Always have at least 2-3 weapons in the stash.
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - jhartelt - 02-26-2003
I look for high elemental damage weapons to create IGs from. preferrably with ias on them. those are quite common and not too expensive
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - Occhidiangela - 02-26-2003
Neat rares I find or Steel Rune Word (Tir El) swords. The open wounds is nice, as is the increased attack speed.
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - Nicodemus Phaulkon - 02-26-2003
It's a tank. Why build it from platinum when recycled Coca-cola cans will suffice. Although, I do agree with Yzilla... ethereal Coca-cola cans would be neat. ;)
Keep it cheap.
On the great Golem foodchain of life, Mr. Clank tends to get left behind rather rapidly after the advent of level 30. I have a rather tough time understanding any lingering interest in him, given the benefits of a Fire Golem (even higher life, built-in elemental damage in the hundreds, Conflagration damage on dismissal, etc). The only drawback would be the mana cost (33 vs. hundreds)... but when you're of sufficient levels, that's hardly a consideration, wouldn't you agree? My Necromancer can recover the cost of casting a Tinder (200, currently) in about 10 seconds, just allowing his own mana regeneration.
But, honestly, nothing can truely tank better than a Blood Golem, paired with a Thorns Merc. Goodness knows that a Thorn Merc will bring more IM-factor to the table than an Iron Golem on any day of the week.
An old debate, to be certain.
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - the Langolier - 02-26-2003
Conner Macleod,Feb 26 2003, 02:20 AM Wrote:Necros are the truly elite class right?LOL. Let's see... My SP necro (with prevent monster heal) has a level 30 fire golem with a lvl 30 golem mastery that can't kill a single enemy on his own in act5/hell. Ridiculous. Also, what is with the weighted mana costs? I think its extremely unfair that the druid gets to summon a bear for no more than 25 mana, when a fire golem's cost increases by 10 each level. If I remember correctly, it costs near 350 mana to summon my fire golem. Sure a bear's life is much less, but it's damage actually has affect on the enemies (and when they are so cheap...). BTW, why does the skill increase golem walk/run speed? That is absolutely worthless. Something that might actually improve this is to increase attack speed. And how about that lack of elemental skills/attack? Fire golem does a meager 400 not accounting any resistances or immunities, not to mention his slow attack speed. Poison skills you say? Worthless - the damage per time is too small, the enemies too resistant, and the duration is quartered in hell difficulty. That really leaves it up to the mancer himself to use an elemental weapon. I don't know about you, but I run from enemies with my summoning/cursing necro. Necros work wonderful in parties, but you don't have that luxury in SP. And now proceeding to general D2 flamming...
Diablo 2 is a simpletons game. Multiplayer isn't so bad with the extreme monsters of hell difficulty because you have other character classes that can compensate for your weaknesses, and vice versa. I think its a mistake that SP doesn't take this fact into account. In mulitplayer, even when you are alone, there is the possiblity that others will join you (honestly, how often you play solo?). However, in SP no one is able to come to your aid. Its so ridiculous that the game isn't balanced to compensate for this. Immune to physical unique monsters are impossible to kill for my necro. Especially when "prevent monster heal" doesn't actually prevent a monster from healing completely. I could go on and on, touching on everything from items to skills to patches, but I will stop, I'm getting upset.
As for iron golems, don't bother creating one from an item that increases damage or attack speed, it won't help with 7-19 base damage. I would stick to items that increase resistances and life. Of course, seeing as how any item you create one out of makes very little difference in a golem's performance, and many affixes don't even apply to the golem, a lizards sword of the bat is just about as good as that pally shield.
I would rather stick to a Blood Golem w/ iron maiden or thorns, or both. Try casting it multiple times for multiplied effect! Not only does it damage enemies, but it can keep the golem and yourself alive.
P.S. As you may have deduced, I haven't played D2 in months so the numerical values are most likely a little bit off, but it doens't change the point. Also, the IM blip was a joke.
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - Kharohz - 02-27-2003
Quote:But, honestly, nothing can truely tank better than a Blood Golem, paired with a Thorns Merc. Goodness knows that a Thorn Merc will bring more IM-factor to the table than an Iron Golem on any day of the week.
An old debate, to be certain.
True, however the merc itself can't tank so well, and if mercy dies.. Then all hell breaks loose. I've been there I know.
Iron Golem is just more simple. And the damage isn't that much different, it just isn't worth worrying if your merc is suicidally running into a group of cows.
Quote:Making an IG out of a paladin shield seems a bit pointless.
As you said the IG will die no matter what. So why bother collecting diamonds and finding and 4 socketed paladin shield when metal items are plentiful, I'd just summon another one.
Edit:Me=Stupid
I never said you had to get diamonds and a 4 socketed paladin shield. Paladin shields spawn with decent resistances right off the bat. And aren't really that difficult to find.
And yes I agree on one thing, you ARE stupid :blink:
j/k
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - Nicodemus Phaulkon - 02-27-2003
Quote:True, however the merc itself can't tank so well, and if mercy dies.. Then all hell breaks loose. I've been there I know.
Iron Golem is just more simple. And the damage isn't that much different, it just isn't worth worrying if your merc is suicidally running into a group of cows.
Rather dependant what you put on the merc, methinks. All that equipment that you're wasting on your Iron Golem seed could also be considered as more effectively used as Merc equipment. (Cruel Pole Arms, don't you know).
Also is a matter of maneuvering yourself to benefit the merc's AI. "Maneuvering"... there's something that the majority of D2x players seem to forget about. If your merc is heading all willy-nilly into a pack of oncoming Bovine Disaster... TURN... AROUND... AND.. WALK... AWAY. Merc will instantly follow you, and at a much more rapid pace than your own undead herd.
Result: When you turn and stand, Merc is at the back of the pack beside you, emanating happily... and your Black Angus are heartily engaged with the multitude of Heifers that were pursuing you but a moment ago.
"Maneuvering" can also be implemented if your merc does indeed hit the ground. After all, you have a 4 second window of opportunity before the Thorns aura dissapates... making a maneouver of "Town Portal" very viable (also allowing a resurrection of said lazy merc to duty).
All in all, rather less expensive than the Iron Golem seed that's being quoted in this thread.
As for the damage comparison, methinks you're overestimating the effectiveness of your Iron Golem. Certainly it is the Thorns, not the weapon damage that is making the hardest impact. An slvl 20 Golem effects a whopping 420% returned damage. :huh: Please bear witness that this AMAZING display of Thorns is roughly equal to a slvl 5 Thorns Aura. Now... considering that a Thorns merc can easily effect a return of 930% damage with his aura (slvl 18)... you MIGHT notice a slight difference.
Add in the small nit that the Merc's aura is also affecting those 30 plus Revives you're hauling around... and I believe your point has been officially made moot. After all, your Iron Golem, buffed though he may be... is the only one of your posse that's Thorning. B)
*tips helm*
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - Archon_Wing - 02-27-2003
Bleh, it's a matter of preference. If you want a defensive golem (tank), fire golem and clay golem are far better choices. If you really wanted damage return you would use thorns merc+ fire golem+ amp damage. (iron golem and thorns merc do not work)
For an iron golem set up, a IG made from a semi-powerful weapon, (perferably etheral so you won't use it anyways) plus a might merc is far superior+amp damage. Besides, thorns is not effective with revives, because they have their own 50% global resist.
Honestly, it's not too hard to play with a necro at all. Unlike a melee class, who needs a good weapon, or simply get destroyed in hell mode, a necro need only stack up on + skills. As for the deal for PI's, there's a whole tree devoted to that. :) Or maybe mages. i dunno.
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - Archon_Wing - 02-27-2003
the Langolier,Feb 26 2003, 03:11 PM Wrote:LOL. Let's see... My SP necro (with prevent monster heal) has a level 30 fire golem with a lvl 30 golem mastery that can't kill a single enemy on his own in act5/hell.Perhaps it's not supposed to! It's a tank! You can't make a *smiles* one trick pony. You have other skills. If p&b are too weak for you, grab a dagger and start poking away :) Or *gasp* a sword. The fact that it is impossible to kill with golem mastery demonstrates the point. I mean, if you refuse to adapt your strat to it, it's not really the necro's fault... Don't put all your eggs in one basket. I never put more than one point in fire golem and it works just as fine
Quote:Poison skills you say? Worthless - the damage per time is too small, the enemies too resistant, and the duration is quartered in hell difficulty.
Hmm... really? I didn't notice.
Quote:And now proceeding to general D2 flamming... Diablo 2 is a simpletons game.Really? Then maybe you're viewing it too simply.
Quote:As for iron golems, don't bother creating one from an item that increases damage or attack speed, it won't help with 7-19 base damage.
Umm, the weapon damage is added on to 7-19 dmg... so it's actualy quite a bit :)
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - TheVillageIdiot - 02-28-2003
Quote:I never said you had to get diamonds and a 4 socketed paladin shield. Paladin shields spawn with decent resistances right off the bat. And aren't really that difficult to find.
Just to clear this up, I was talking to CrescentWindX.
Now back to making golems out of items. IMO iron golems waste items with high damage that could be given to mercs, who have some skills that help them use the items more effectively. Where iron golems have low AR and somewhat slow attack speed that cannot be increased.
I think irons golem would be much better if made from items that have:
"xx%" to cast "such and such" when struck. It seem well with a golem since they're meant to be damage magnets.
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - Kharohz - 03-01-2003
Sorry, I assumed that response was to me, being how I did first state "Your Iron golem will die no matter what"
:P
As for Nico's post:
First off, I'd assumed you wouldn't use revives. Because, believe it or not, it will actually do less damage returned than a IG will do (due to the hell's 50% physical resistances). Its no small wonder that you can keep your merc alive. Its very easy to do with tanking revives. Using a thorns merc with just skellies/blood golem will diss out the most damage, but as you can already guess, those skellies aren't exactly good tanks. And so the merc is 10x harder to keep alive ;).
As for mercs and tactics of keeping them alive. I do believe I have the experience. Being how I was one of those rare fellows who actually used them in 1.08 ;). I know everything there is to know.
My damage comparison isn't far off. No one (except for someone who is new), who uses a pure IG necro (they don't use revives or any other summon for that matter) would have just a base lvl 20 IG. The average person may be around slvl 30. IF I was to do it, would go slvl40+. I actually underestimated (due to the fact you use revives) the damage comparison, IG does more than revives + thorns anyday (again 50% reduction). But this is a quick assumption. I would do the math, but my brain is currently fried from a long.. long and horrid day at work ;)
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - Vash - 03-03-2003
I've made two IG Necros that use IG for damage returned. My necro was quite the opposite, Conner, expensive to build but very cheap to maintain =P
I stole the build from an old LLer (sorry, I forget his name).
The point of the build was to get as much +IG skill as you can to increase the IG's natural thorns. Just send the IG in, cast amp damage, and CE all the way. I wasn't relying on him for dealing direct damage plus I wanted enemies to hit him so it made sense to make him out of shoddy objects. I sometimes made one out of paladin shields though, as somebody mentioned before, for areas with heavy elemental damage such as the Chaos Sanctuary.
How I wish keys counted as metallic objects...
Iron Golem - Best to make out of? - Nebuul - 03-03-2003
This isn't a boast, just the simple fact: For a long time, I had the most powerful Iron Golem that I know of on BNET. I am the person who discovered that IG's could become quad immune, etc. It's likely my only contribution to the D2 community, but in the end I know my iron golems.
IMO, the *ultimate* iron golem is made with a quad-resist shield. The skill distribution you want is:
20 IG, 20 GM, 1 in summon resist
20 CE
Split the rest up between amplify damage and bone spirit as you see fit.
For items, you want TONS of **+summon**:
"Golemlords Wand" with +3 IG and +3 golem mastery
"Golemlords Shrunken head" same deal.
Golemlord's Circlet
Trang's Armor (It's actually been so long I think this is the one -- +2 summon skills)
Arcane's Valor is good, too, because it ups ALL your stuff by +2.
8 or 10 +summon charms (8 if you want to hold a cube and get some items from time to time -- I eventually got to the point where I didn't care about items anymore, so I just picked up rings and small charms)
2x Stone of Jordan
Keep a spare shield just in case your golem dies to a bug. You golem will NEVER die to damage. I promise you. He is invulnerable. Sometimes, though, he may get hung in lag or something and get deleted by bnet.
STRATEGY: Make a quadrouple immune golem (if you have, say, +20 summon skills, then you will have level 21 summon resist. Subtract that number from 100, that is how much you need on a shield to have a golem immune to Cold, Lightning, Fire, and Poison. ***cold piercing makes no difference to an immune creature***).
Step 2: Send Previously conjured monster into bad guys.
Step 3: Cast amplify damage.
Step 4: Cast corpse explosion
Ok, a lot of you are like "dude your golem will still die I've had level 30 fire golems and they died" -- guess what, I'm talking a level 40+ iron golem/mastery. He has so much more life than you can even imagine, it isn't funny. Irons and fires have, for all practical purposes, the same amount of life. The difference is that fire golems regenerate off of fire damage, and iron golems regenerate CONSTANTLY.
Ok, forgive the rambling and jumping around, but I just reminded myself of something: How much life will an iron golem with levle 40 mastery have in an 8ppl game? Hint: A lot. A whole lot.
Anyhow, back on track, here are some examples of what a golem of this magnitude and capability is capable of doing:
1) Go through the entire chaos sanctuary without dying.
2) Soloing. That means you cast amplify damage and nothing else. Soloing Lister's entire pack of minions in an 8ppl game. If lister isn't physical immune he will die too. If you cast corpse explosion, it isn't even funny.
3) Soloing Duriel
The list goes on and on. Basically, he has thousands upon thousands of life, regenerates, and you have more than enough time to leisurly cast a TP and go heal him should he get below yellow life
I'm sure I've left something out, but oh well. This is my ramblings.
Nebuul aka NinjaPuss