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+--- Thread: The Grit of Resistance? (/thread-11516.html)
The Grit of Resistance? - Logic_X - 04-25-2003
I'm asking it very specific this time through....i'm looking for the raw grit of resistances and how they're effected by abilities - We will ignore Absorb since it is completely exterior to the actual resists and skills that effect them.
First of all....i'll put what I think I know:
Basic Damage formula (ignoring Absorb)
Final Damage = (Damage * (1 - Resist %))
Example:
25 = (100 * (1 - .75))
And What I want to know:
How do each of these Effects work (the only 2 ways I can think of will be listed):
Amplify Damage (-100% physical resistance)
Decrepify (-50% physical resistance)
Lower Resist (-varies% elemental/magical resistance)
Conviction (-varies% elemental resistance)
Cold Mastery (-varies% cold resistance)
Do they:
A - a% = a% (IE 100% - 1% = 99%)
or
B - a% = a% of x% (IE 100% - 1%of100% (ie .1%) = 99.9%)
or
some other way? (can't think of any other logical ways though - maybe you know one though)...
The Grit of Resistance? - Ruvanal - 04-25-2003
http://www.hut.fi/~tgustafs/damagereduction.html
The Grit of Resistance? - Logic_X - 04-25-2003
<_< I've read that about 20 times heh....(simply because I'm dense and think it may have changed since the last time I was linked to it :( ) ....Doesn't answer what I'm looking for.....merely explains the methods that damage is altered BY resists....(which I already knew heh....my formula up there = fundamentalist formula)....
I'm aware the information I'm asking for seems extremely basic and rather stupid ... and doesn't seem like anyone who's been playing as long as I have should be asking it (....I was in the Stress Test)....but yea...I'm really wondering something that stupid and basic heh (where as complex formulas about damage dealt, etc. tend not to evade me so readily)...
The Grit of Resistance? - Ruvanal - 04-25-2003
Example: Amplify Damage (-100% physical resistance)
123 damge being applied to target with amplify damage and a base resistance of 0%.
Final Damage = (Damage * (1 - Resist %))
Final Damage = (123 * (1 - (-1.00)) = 123*2 =246
The Grit of Resistance? - Logic_X - 04-26-2003
Ok...so I was right after all.....<_< remind me to backhand a few people for being either: A) stupid, and confusing me with ineptitude or B) annoying, and spouting out contradictory information that serves no purpose but to limit the spread of information....
(suppose I'll wait for confirmation on the formula.....but it is what I always bloody assumed it was O_o)
The Grit of Resistance? - devzero - 04-28-2003
For mostly all resistance effects you simply add upp the total resistances. That is:
phys res = 0%
Amp dammage = -100%
Ber rune = +8%
Vampire gaze = +20%
String of ears = +15%
Stormshield = +35%
Shaftstop = +30%
phys res = 0 -100 +8+20+15+35+30 = 8%
when getting 100 phys dammage you would get :
dmg = 100 * (1 + 8/100) = 108 dmg
Cold mastery does not work this way however. As far as i know it lowers the resistance by the % amount given. so with 50% cold mastery against 75% cold resist you would get a total of : 37,5% cold resist. In Hell / nigtmare the cold mastrey is applied before the difficulty penalty. (ie 200% cold resistance, with 50% cold mastery = 100% cold res - 100% hell penalty = 0% cold res)
I think lower resistance works by simple addition, but im not 100% sure about that.
The Grit of Resistance? - Tommi - 04-28-2003
Logic_X,Apr 25 2003, 08:04 PM Wrote:And What I want to know:As far as I know, all these abilities other than Cold Mastery substract straightly from resistance. They also can cause your resistance to become negative, with a minimum cap at -100. Thus, it is just a big line of pluses and minuses like this: a+b+c-d-e, where different letters represent values of different abilities (resistances, skills, etc.). The final value is your resistance which is applied in the damage modification prodedure.
How do each of these Effects work (the only 2 ways I can think of will be listed):
Amplify Damage (-100% physical resistance)
Decrepify (-50% physical resistance)
Lower Resist (-varies% elemental/magical resistance)
Conviction (-varies% elemental resistance)
Cold Mastery (-varies% cold resistance)
For cold mastery, I know that it somehow multiplies the total resistance by 1-Cold Mastery%/100, but I don't know exact details. I remember reading that it cannot lower resistance below 0% but I am not sure if the cap is before or after the difficulty penalty. Never played sorcs that extensively. ;)
Cheers,
Tommi
The Grit of Resistance? - Brista - 04-28-2003
In the current version Cold Mastery is a simple multiplier to a monster's resistance
So a monster with 50% Cold Resistance hit with a Cold spell cast with enough mastery to do 50% reduction would have effectively
50% * 50% = 25% resistance to that shot
It doesn't affect creatures with Cold Resistance 0% nor creatures which are cold immune
A quick look through Spirea's charts for monsters' resists in Hell will show you that there are in fact very few monsters that it does affect
Thus it is not a very good PvM skill
The Grit of Resistance? - Obi2Kenobi - 04-29-2003
While although it cannot lower you below 0, it can. :P
If you have 150% resists in hell, that is effectively 50% resist all, right? Wrong (at least for this demonstration...). You take 50% of 150% to get 75% cold resist, and subtract 100 for the hell penalty which gives you a grand total of -25% cold resist.
The Grit of Resistance? - devzero - 04-29-2003
Would this mean that a monster in hell with 0% cold res actually have 100% cold res - 100% for hell diff ? Meaning that 50% cold mastery would actually bring it down to -50%? (sounds logical to me...but when was d2 ever logical :D )
The Grit of Resistance? - the Langolier - 04-29-2003
devzero,Apr 28 2003, 11:07 PM Wrote:Would this mean that a monster in hell with 0% cold res actually have 100% cold res - 100% for hell diff?Only player resistances are affected by the difficulty penalty.
The Grit of Resistance? - devzero - 04-29-2003
I always thought that Cold Mastery is next to useless for PvM. Sure you'll hurt any non immunes with resistance above 0, but thats not many. Its probably worth a skill point but not more, sucks compared to the 2 other masteries tho (unless you are pvp).
The Grit of Resistance? - Tommi - 04-29-2003
If I got it right, to determine your final resistance, you
1. Sum up resistances from all sources
2. Reduce the result by the sum of all direct reduction effects
3. Apply cold mastery (only with cold resistance)
4. Apply difficulty penalty (only with players' fire, cold, lightning and poison resistances)
5. Apply caps (minimum: -100%; maximum: 75%-95% for players, 100% for monsters)
Thus, the formula for cold resistance is
Total Cold Resistance = [(Sum of Cold Resistances - Sum of Direct Reduction Effects to Cold Resistance)*(1-Cold Mastery%/100)] - Difficulty Penalty
where [] indicates rounding down.
And as said, caps are applied to the total resistance to determine the final resistance.
It might be worth to add this info too to my Damage Modification page.
Cheers,
Tommi
The Grit of Resistance? - Obi2Kenobi - 04-29-2003
I think that you explained it better than I did (since you used better numbers, so people will believe you. :P)
But yes, that is correct (at least as far as my knowledge goes.)
I have a question about damage, though... If you were to have a 1-4 damage dagger, and stabbed a person with 20 damage reduction, would you ever be able to injure them?
The Grit of Resistance? - Ruvanal - 04-30-2003
Obi1.10Kenobi,Apr 29 2003, 04:28 PM Wrote:I have a question about damage, though... If you were to have a 1-4 damage dagger, and stabbed a person with 20 damage reduction, would you ever be able to injure them?Only if you had enough other enhancements to boost the final damage over 20.
The Grit of Resistance? - devzero - 04-30-2003
Friend of mine did a build around that. He maximised on items with "dammage reduced by X". In hell i think he was way above 100, but i do not remember exactly how much. He was pretty much immune to all physical attackers except for those rare dammage boosted mobs (might, fanat, extra strong)
The Grit of Resistance? - Obi2Kenobi - 04-30-2003
Another question.
Does vulpine take away some damage or just add to mana? I think it is the latter, but I am not sure.
The Grit of Resistance? - Ruvanal - 05-01-2003
Obi1.10Kenobi,Apr 30 2003, 06:07 PM Wrote:Another question.Just adds to mana based on the amount of damage that you sustain.
Does vulpine take away some damage or just add to mana? I think it is the latter, but I am not sure.