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Item Generation question - Dagni - 06-11-2003
How exactly does the game determine what skill level will show up on an item? For example, I believe I've read that level 1 skills such as Tiger Strike or Fire Blast will never show up on assassin claws (since the exceptional claws are always too high ilvl). I remember Jarulf's post on this topic pre-LOD, but I don't know how it was changed and can't find anything about it.
Any help appreciated
- Dagni
Item Generation question - Brista - 06-12-2003
I can't completely answer the question but for claws the ones that can have skills are designated h2h2 and the lower level ones (weapon type h2h) don't get them
I guess they felt that 2 +3 Tiger Strike Katars at level 1 would be over-powered :)
(Ruvunal explained this at some stage, can't now find the post)
I can offer the following based on play impressions, not technical info. Take with a large pinch of salt :)
The following items can get skills as auto-mods:
Amazon: Amazon-specific spears, javelins and bows
Assassin: higher end claws (weapon type hth2)
Barbs: barb hats
Druids: druid hats
Necros: wands, heads
Pallies: sceptres
Sorcs: Orbs, Staves
As for number of skills it seems to be equally distributed between 0-3
As for skill level it seems to be equally distributed between levels 1-3
As for which skills appear it is always within 2 rows on the skilltab (the screen you get by pressing T). In other words an item can have a level 12, 18 and 24 skill but can't have a level 6, 18 and 24. 6 and 24 are too far apart
At the start of the game only levels 1 and 6 appear in the vendor. At around 6th level (not too sure) you start to see level 12 skills
As you progress through early Normal the skills you see gradually get higher. Eventually you only see level 30, 24, 18 (and I'm not sure about level 12) skills appear. Or to put that another way if you want to see low level skills, certainly level 1 and level 6 skills you need to farm Act 1 Normal or shop Akara or Gheed with a low level character. You will never find a + Corpse Explosion wand in Hell Cows. The Dark Wood is quite a good place to hunt out that wand or your Oak Sage hat or whatever it is you're looking for. It still takes a lot of patience :)
You can shop in higher Acts, providing you keep the character level low but you might have a problem seeing items as they have a minimum level according to type. In other words, Drognan won't sell Bone Wands to a level 1 character
After a while you stop seeing white and grey items in the shops - everything is magic. This can be a bit of a nuisance if you're shopping for runeword material
It's very hard to find a 2 socket wand with a level 1 or 6 necro skill for instance as the first two types only get one socket and the third type is qlvl 18. You should be able to see Bone wands at Drognan and Ormus, I'm not sure yet whether you can shop a white bone wand there. (Something I've been planning to test for a while :) )
Edit: found the claws
Type h2h (which can not get skills as automods):
Katar, Wrist Blade, Hatchet hands, Cestus, Claws, Blade Talons, Scissors Katar, Quhab, Wrist spike, Fascia
Type h2h2 (which can get skills as automods):
Hand scythe, Greater claws, Greater talons, Scissors Quhab, Suwayyah, Wrist sword, War fist, Battle cestus, Feral claws, Runic talons, Scissors suwayyah
Item Generation question - Dagni - 06-12-2003
Thanks much. Although much of that I already knew myself, I didn't know (or had forgot - it has been awhile since I've done anything D2-related) that not all of the exceptional claws can get +skills.
Are you certain that a single item can only have up to a 2 row difference? I'm fairly certain that a 3 row difference was possible pre-LOD, and it seems odd that it would become less now that level 30 skills are also available.
Anyway, while I'd still like an exact formula :) the one thing that would be particularly nice to know right now is what IS the lowest that can ever spawn on a claw? That is, at the lowest possible ilvl for a Hand Scythe, what is the lowest possible skill row?
- Dagni
Item Generation question - Brista - 06-12-2003
Dagni,Jun 12 2003, 05:20 AM Wrote:Are you certain that a single item can only have up to a 2 row difference?No :)
Quote:the one thing that would be particularly nice to know right now is what IS the lowest that can ever spawn on a claw?
Well, if I am right about the two row difference then you will never see a level 12 or lower skill on a claw (unless unique or set)
Hand scythe is ilvl 41 according to this page:
http://www.diabloii.net/items/class-specif...asn-excep.shtml
Item Generation question - Dagni - 06-12-2003
Well, I went ahead and did some testing / shop-refreshing myself.
Briefly, with my level 29 character in NM/Act 2 I found that a wand/staff/etc could have level 6 - level 24 skills on them. Saw one specifically that had both. So 3 row difference max.
I was surprised to find a Hand Scythe as well. Since I'm nowhere near level 41 (or really level 36, since clvl + 5 = ilvl for shops), I would assume that means that there is no ilvl vs qlvl check when upgrading an item from normal to exceptional in the shops. This should mean that if a low enough character is rushed to NM/Act 2, level 1 skills would be possible on claws.
Anyway, I'm going to bed now, but I have a correlated theory that hopefully I'll get into tomorrow.
- Dagni
Item Generation question - Brista - 06-12-2003
Very interesting
PM me if you want a character PA-ed
Item Generation question - Hammerman - 06-12-2003
'Staffmod' selection:
First, the game chooses how many skills to add. It will do rnd[100], and add to it the ilvl of the item IF it is being imbued. Then, if higher than 90, 3 skills will be chosen. If higher than 70, 2 skills. If higher tan 30, 1.
After this, it selects the skill id. It will start at a certain value depending on the ilvl:
Above 36: 5
Between 24 and 36: 4
Between 18 and 24: 3
Between 18 and 11: 2
11 or lower: 1
This the becomes a base for all the skill ids. Then, it has a chance to be modified:
20% chance to add 1
50% chance to stay unmodified
10% chance to subtract 1
20% chance to subtract 2
If the item is low quality, then the skill id as of now is capped at 4. Then the final id is chosen from the formula below. skill_adder is the skill id so far, base_id is the starting id for the character class.
id = skill_adder + (base_id + 4 * skill_adder) - 5 + rnd[5]
If this ends as 73 (Poison Dagger), it will do the rnd[5] again. And finally, the total skill bonus is chosen. It will do rnd[100], and add to that ilvl / 2 if from imbue.
If 90 or above, +3
Between 60 and 90: +2
Lower than 60: +1
This applies to:
ItemType StaffMods
Cloak ass <unused>
Hand to Hand 2 ass
Primal Helm bar
Pelt dru
Wand nec
Voodoo Heads nec
Scepter pal
Staff sor
Orb sor
Item Generation question - Dagni - 06-12-2003
Just a couple of small things.
Quote:After this, it selects the skill id. It will start at a certain value depending on the ilvl:You seem to be clear about ilvl 36, but what about ilvls 11, 18, and 24? Which skill id will each return?
Above 36: 5
Between 24 and 36: 4
Between 18 and 24: 3
Between 18 and 11: 2
11 or lower: 1
Quote:This the becomes a base for all the skill ids. Then, it has a chance to be modified:Could you confirm this, or is it a typo? It would seem more logical for it to be 20% chance to subtract 1, 10% to subtract 2. Also when playing I'm pretty certain I saw a lot more of the '-1' group than the '-2'.
20% chance to add 1
50% chance to stay unmodified
10% chance to subtract 1
20% chance to subtract 2
Thanks again for your help
- Dagni
Item Generation question - Hammerman - 06-12-2003
Quote:You seem to be clear about ilvl 36, but what about ilvls 11, 18, and 24? Which skill id will each return?
It ranges from 1-11, 12-18, 19-24, 25-36.
Quote:Could you confirm this, or is it a typo? It would seem more logical for it to be 20% chance to subtract 1, 10% to subtract 2. Also when playing I'm pretty certain I saw a lot more of the '-1' group than the '-2'.
Ah, sorry. Yea, 10% chance to subtract 2, 20% chance to subtract 1. My bad.
edit 1&2: quote tags :|
Item Generation question - Brista - 06-12-2003
Thanks Hammerman
As you may be coming to expect your post brings new questions
This skill ID, does the last digit correspond to a row on the skill tab, so 6 would be level 30 skills and 1 would be level 1s?
Also, it seems Poison Dagger can't spawn on Necro Heads then. Shame
Item Generation question - Hammerman - 06-12-2003
Brista,Jun 12 2003, 10:47 PM Wrote:This skill ID, does the last digit correspond to a row on the skill tab, so 6 would be level 30 skills and 1 would be level 1s?Eh, not following you. You'll start with a value from 1-5. Then there's a change to modify it slightly. You then add it to the formula as 'skill_adder', and the result from thta formula will be the skill id to choose.
Item Generation question - Ruvanal - 06-13-2003
Hammerman,
Thanks for the information, but please keep in mind that many of the posters even here have never seen the contents of the MPQ file to know what you are referring to at times. You may occasionally need to explain some fo the basics of what you are referencing.
Quote:If the item is low quality, then the skill id as of now is capped at 4. Then the final id is chosen from the formula below. skill_adder is the skill id so far, base_id is the starting id for the character class.
id = skill_adder + (base_id + 4 * skill_adder) - 5 + rnd[5]
If this ends as 73 (Poison Dagger), it will do the rnd[5] again. And finally, the total skill bonus is chosen. It will do rnd[100], and add to that ilvl / 2 if from imbue.
The base_id that is referenced here is the first ID for that class from the skills.txt file (see below). The resulting id is the specific id from skills.txt. For those not familiar with some of the math functions the rnd[5] will give a range fo 0 to 4.
id = skill_adder + (base_id + 4 * skill_adder) - 5 + rnd[5]
Simplifing this some we would get:
ID = base_id + 5*skill_adder -5 +(0 to 4)
Looking at an example of a level 20 character looking at the sorceress staves in a shop. The ilvl of the items will be 25, which will make the skill_adder 3. As a bottom end adjustment you would get a -2 to this for skill_adder=1 then and the lowest possible ID would be
ID = 36 (first sor skill in list) +(5*1) -5 +0(looking for the lowest ID)
= 36 (Fire Bolt)
and the highest would be if you had +1 to the skill_adder making it 4. Then the highest skill possible to be seen would be
ID = 36+(5*4) -5 +4(for the highest ID)
=55 (Glacial Spike)
Questions for Hammerman.
You were not very clear, but I take it that a single item will only get one modifier of +1, 0, -1, -2 that is applied to all of the skills that are placed on the item? Or is that factor re-randomised for each skill on the item.
What did the code do in the case of selecting the same skill a second (or third time)? Reroll the skill or add with a cap of +3? I suspect reroll.
Code:
Id charclass skill
6 ama Magic Arrow
7 ama Fire Arrow
8 ama Inner Sight
9 ama Critical Strike
10 ama Jab
11 ama Cold Arrow
12 ama Multiple Shot
13 ama Dodge
14 ama Power Strike
15 ama Poison Javelin
16 ama Exploding Arrow
17 ama Slow Missiles
18 ama Avoid
19 ama Impale
20 ama Lightning Bolt
21 ama Ice Arrow
22 ama Guided Arrow
23 ama Penetrate
24 ama Charged Strike
25 ama Plague Javelin
26 ama Strafe
27 ama Immolation Arrow
28 ama Dopplezon
29 ama Evade
30 ama Fend
31 ama Freezing Arrow
32 ama Valkyrie
33 ama Pierce
34 ama Lightning Strike
35 ama Lightning Fury
36 sor Fire Bolt
37 sor Warmth
38 sor Charged Bolt
39 sor Ice Bolt
40 sor Frozen Armor
41 sor Inferno
42 sor Static Field
43 sor Telekinesis
44 sor Frost Nova
45 sor Ice Blast
46 sor Blaze
47 sor Fire Ball
48 sor Nova
49 sor Lightning
50 sor Shiver Armor
51 sor Fire Wall
52 sor Enchant
53 sor Chain Lightning
54 sor Teleport
55 sor Glacial Spike
56 sor Meteor
57 sor Thunder Storm
58 sor Energy Shield
59 sor Blizzard
60 sor Chilling Armor
61 sor Fire Mastery
62 sor Hydra
63 sor Lightning Mastery
64 sor Frozen Orb
65 sor Cold Mastery
66 nec Amplify Damage
67 nec Teeth
68 nec Bone Armor
69 nec Skeleton Mastery
70 nec Raise Skeleton
71 nec Dim Vision
72 nec Weaken
73 nec Poison Dagger
74 nec Corpse Explosion
75 nec Clay Golem
76 nec Iron Maiden
77 nec Terror
78 nec Bone Wall
79 nec Golem Mastery
80 nec Raise Skeletal Mage
81 nec Confuse
82 nec Life Tap
83 nec Poison Explosion
84 nec Bone Spear
85 nec BloodGolem
86 nec Attract
87 nec Decrepify
88 nec Bone Prison
89 nec Summon Resist
90 nec IronGolem
91 nec Lower Resist
92 nec Poison Nova
93 nec Bone Spirit
94 nec FireGolem
95 nec Revive
96 pal Sacrifice
97 pal Smite
98 pal Might
99 pal Prayer
100 pal Resist Fire
101 pal Holy Bolt
102 pal Holy Fire
103 pal Thorns
104 pal Defiance
105 pal Resist Cold
106 pal Zeal
107 pal Charge
108 pal Blessed Aim
109 pal Cleansing
110 pal Resist Lightning
111 pal Vengeance
112 pal Blessed Hammer
113 pal Concentration
114 pal Holy Freeze
115 pal Vigor
116 pal Conversion
117 pal Holy Shield
118 pal Holy Shock
119 pal Sanctuary
120 pal Meditation
121 pal Fist of the Heavens
122 pal Fanaticism
123 pal Conviction
124 pal Redemption
125 pal Salvation
126 bar Bash
127 bar Sword Mastery
128 bar Axe Mastery
129 bar Mace Mastery
130 bar Howl
131 bar Find Potion
132 bar Leap
133 bar Double Swing
134 bar Pole Arm Mastery
135 bar Throwing Mastery
136 bar Spear Mastery
137 bar Taunt
138 bar Shout
139 bar Stun
140 bar Double Throw
141 bar Increased Stamina
142 bar Find Item
143 bar Leap Attack
144 bar Concentrate
145 bar Iron Skin
146 bar Battle Cry
147 bar Frenzy
148 bar Increased Speed
149 bar Battle Orders
150 bar Grim Ward
151 bar Whirlwind
152 bar Berserk
153 bar Natural Resistance
154 bar War Cry
155 bar Battle Command
221 dru Raven
222 dru Plague Poppy
223 dru Wearwolf
224 dru Shape Shifting
225 dru Firestorm
226 dru Oak Sage
227 dru Summon Spirit Wolf
228 dru Wearbear
229 dru Molten Boulder
230 dru Arctic Blast
231 dru Cycle of Life
232 dru Feral Rage
233 dru Maul
234 dru Eruption
235 dru Cyclone Armor
236 dru Heart of Wolverine
237 dru Summon Fenris
238 dru Rabies
239 dru Fire Claws
240 dru Twister
241 dru Vines
242 dru Hunger
243 dru Shock Wave
244 dru Volcano
245 dru Tornado
246 dru Spirit of Barbs
247 dru Summon Grizzly
248 dru Fury
249 dru Armageddon
250 dru Hurricane
251 ass Fire Trauma
252 ass Claw Mastery
253 ass Psychic Hammer
254 ass Tiger Strike
255 ass Dragon Talon
256 ass Shock Field
257 ass Blade Sentinel
258 ass Quickness
259 ass Fists of Fire
260 ass Dragon Claw
261 ass Charged Bolt Sentry
262 ass Wake of Fire Sentry
263 ass Weapon Block
264 ass Cloak of Shadows
265 ass Cobra Strike
266 ass Blade Fury
267 ass Fade
268 ass Shadow Warrior
269 ass Claws of Thunder
270 ass Dragon Tail
271 ass Lightning Sentry
272 ass Inferno Sentry
273 ass Mind Blast
274 ass Blades of Ice
275 ass Dragon Flight
276 ass Death Sentry
277 ass Blade Shield
278 ass Venom
279 ass Shadow Master
280 ass Royal StrikeItem Generation question - Brista - 06-13-2003
Thank you :)
Item Generation question - Dagni - 06-14-2003
Ruvanal,Jun 12 2003, 08:07 PM Wrote:The ilvl of the items will be 25, which will make the skill_adder 3.ilvl 25 = skill_adder 4. Based on Hammerman's post.
- Dagni
Item Generation question - Ruvanal - 06-14-2003
Dagni,Jun 13 2003, 08:52 PM Wrote:ilvl 25 = skill_adder 4. Based on Hammerman's post.Oops, you are right.
- Dagni
That woul dend up making the range work out to be 41 (Inferno) to 60 (Chilling Armor).
Also this looks like a more reasonable range to be seeing at this point in the game.
Item Generation question - Hammerman - 06-15-2003
Apologises all around.
Quote:Thanks for the information, but please keep in mind that many of the posters even here have never seen the contents of the MPQ file to know what you are referring to at times. You may occasionally need to explain some fo the basics of what you are referencing.
Yea, I'm used to doing that over at the PK forums (and in my own personal notes, wich I often just copy from when posting)... use all sorts of lingo and abbrevations from the mpq files with no worries. That habit tends to stick at other forums.
Quote:You were not very clear, but I take it that a single item will only get one modifier of +1, 0, -1, -2 that is applied to all of the skills that are placed on the item? Or is that factor re-randomised for each skill on the item.
From my original post:
Quote:Above 36: 5
Between 24 and 36: 4
Between 18 and 24: 3
Between 18 and 11: 2
11 or lower: 1
This the becomes a base for all the skill ids.
This is a static value, and when the following modifications are done it applies only to the current skill_adder.
Quote:20% chance to add 1
50% chance to stay unmodified
20% chance to subtract 1
10% chance to subtract 2
One thing that I dont think i mentioned before; the above value is capped at 4 if the item is low quality.
Then throws it into the formula.
Quote:What did the code do in the case of selecting the same skill a second (or third time)? Reroll the skill or add with a cap of +3? I suspect reroll.
And reroll it is... sorta. It will do the same as if it had chosen Poison Dagger, add another rnd[5] at the end. And just to be clear, it will not replace the previous rnd[5], but add it to the result.
OT: How does one add a name after the 'Quote' text? Ie. QUOTE (Ruvanal) [text to quote]
Item Generation question - Ruvanal - 06-16-2003
Thanks Hammerman. I missed noting a couple of those points the first time from trying to aborb it all quickly.
Hammerman:
Quote:OT: How does one add a name after the 'Quote' text? Ie. QUOTE (Ruvanal) [text to quote]For my speed I usually just use the orginal posters name with a colon just before the quoted material. This thread should explain how to do some of the fancier things that you see being done.
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/in...ST&f=29&t=26075
different forum, but the same basic software.
Quote:Yea, I'm used to doing that over at the PK forums (and in my own personal notes, wich I often just copy from when posting)... use all sorts of lingo and abbrevations from the mpq files with no worries. That habit tends to stick at other forums.I used to have to frequently give technical discussion about some software systems to fome fellow workers. Many of them did good to know how to even turn the computers on so it sort of teaches you that have to 'talk' at your 'listners' knowledge level. It just takes a while sometimes to get used to knowing just what that is going to be in some areas. If you tried putting this into the diabloii.net forums, it would have need to be alot simpler than this :P
Quote:And reroll it is... sorta. It will do the same as if it had chosen Poison Dagger, add another rnd[5] at the end. And just to be clear, it will not replace the previous rnd[5], but add it to the result.Yes that is more clear and somewhat interesting. It could end up meaning that you could get a skill higher than what could be normally expected by this. In a very extream case you might even get one that is possibly +8 higher. Example of this; 3 staffmods: first roll is max, second is max and reroll is +4, third is max with a first reroll of +4 and second reroll of another +4 (will it actually work this way?). Any checks to make sure that these rerolls do not go beyond the top skill for that particular class?
Item Generation question - Dagni - 06-16-2003
Ruvanal,Jun 15 2003, 07:07 PM Wrote:In a very extream case you might even get one that is possibly +8 higher. Example of this; 3 staffmods: first roll is max, second is max and reroll is +4, third is max with a first reroll of +4 and second reroll of another +4 (will it actually work this way?).Or in the extreme case, a level 1 character could see a wand (or totem) with (77) Terror, (81) Confuse, (85) BloodGolem. That would require Poison Dagger to be selected each time, and then every extra rnd[5] to be maxed, and would give a level 12 and two level 18 skills when the normal max is level 6. The exact chance of this (for a level 1 char) is, I believe, 0.1*(0.2)^12 = 0.0000000004096 = 1 in 2,441,406,250 chances. The 'regular' extreme case would be a whopping 125 times as likely.
- Dagni
Item Generation question - Epi - 07-25-2003
Hammerman,Jun 12 2003, 02:05 PM Wrote:After this, it selects the skill id. It will start at a certain value depending on the ilvl:Since the skill id is cannot be lower than 1 (otherwise skill from different class will be selected), I assume there's some verification for that, isn't it?
Above 36: 5
Between 24 and 36: 4
Between 18 and 24: 3
Between 18 and 11: 2
11 or lower: 1
This the becomes a base for all the skill ids. Then, it has a chance to be modified:
20% chance to add 1
50% chance to stay unmodified
20% chance to subtract 1
10% chance to subtract 2 <- (typo fixed -Epi.)
If the item is low quality, then the skill id as of now is capped at 4.
The question: what happens if, say, 1 is selected first, and then game rolls 10% chance to subtract 2 (making id = -1)? I believe, it's staying unmodified (i.e. +1), but knowing Blizzard it may be other way around.
Item Generation question - Dagni - 07-25-2003
Yeah, I'm sure it stays unmodified at 1. Simply shopping with a level 1 character shows that it works properly, with 80% of the +skills being to tier 1 skills.
- Dagni