Quote:"[W]e're now in a position to begin again," he said. "It's not a leftward movement. It's a forward, communitarian movement." Communitarianism is a movement that considers individualism an impediment to society uniformly adopting values the movement considers appropriate, including authoritarian gun control. For example, the Communitarian Network platform states "there is little sense in gun registration. What we need to significantly enhance public safety is domestic disarmament of the kind that exists in practically all democracies." Former President Bill Clinton quoted 2/6/09 by NRA-ILA

Quote:The New Golden Rule: Community and Morality in a Democratic Society (book reviews) by John Fonte, National Review, March 10, 1997: "THERE is no doubt that the philosophical outlook called communitarianism has influenced politics in the West. Some of its major tenets have been advanced by Bill Clinton in America and Tony Blair in Britain. Described by its promoters as a "movement" (it's not: it has no popular support or mass membership), communitarianism is a public philosophy developed by a small coterie of academics who have attempted to recast American liberal-Left and European social-democratic ideologies into a new "centrist" mold."

Quote:As said, lots of material to digest, needs time.

Quote:I've checked the Homepage, and because it's very vague i've done a quick search which revealed this little gem...

Quote:Gem is about the right word for it. These guys are full on lunatics.

Quote:I mentioned "Agenda 21" in Meat's socialism thread, but this topic deserves it's own discussion. I think the words, "communism", "socialism", "fascism", "capitalism" are from a 20th century lexicon. These are words that we all understand and have programmed reactions for or against. New ideas inspire new words. New words for a new world order.

Former President Bill Clinton recently said,What is the Communitarian Network and why is former Prez. Bill Clinton touting them? I would guess then that Hillary, and other progressives also are embracing this Communitarian movement of Dr. Amitai Etzioni at George Washington University.

So, Meat, maybe "socialism" is the wrong word for a modern world.

Quote:Anyways, I would hate to see these guys associated with political communitarianism of the kind you're describing. In fact, in many ways, I think there's an element of communitarianism in your own views: if I've read you right over the years, you seem to think that libertarian rights are in some sense "quintessentially American" and part of the shared ethical heritage of America. If part of your reason for believing in such rights is fundamentally cultural and not entirely based on a natural law conception of rights, then there's an element of communitarianism in your own thought.

Quote:Like I said, there are many who are labeled as "Conspiracy Theorists", and in this case for good reason. Anytime you go mucking about in Hegelian Dialects, you are wading near the lunatic fringe anyway. Niki Raapana does seem to have rational arguments most of the time, although I'm not sure why Kjos has a page for her. Her site is the ACL (Anti-Communitarian League), which is described by Source Watch as "The Anti-Communitarian League (ACL) presents grassroots opposition research and analysis of the Ultimate Third Way using American constitutional perspectives on a wide range of topics influenced by communitarian thinkers. Heavily referenced site with over 10,000 exit links to direct sources. The ACL's controversial and undisputed manifesto, What Is the Hegelian Dialectic? and The Historical Evolution of Communitarian Thinking, suggests the philisophical communitarian platform directly descends from the Hegelian dialectic. Dismissed by many as a conspiracy theory site for its inclusion of the most taboo topics of the 21st century, including Zionism, communism, and Freemasonry. According to the ACL these topics are all directly connected to the development of modern global communitarianism."

Quote:Now that you mention it, I do recall my political philosophy prof, who did his thesis on Communitarianism, offering a somewhat offhand eye-rolling comment about some groups in the states that have taken the term in strange directions.

This must be them.

Quote:It always matters in social/political/religious stuff.

Quote:... even when you're not on Wikipedia. B)-Jester

Quote:My question still remains. Why is former Pres. Bill Clinton citing the Communitarian Networks agenda?

Quote:All Clinton did was say that the movement towards stronger gun controls was not so much a movement "leftward" as much as a movement "forward, a communitarian movement".

The rest of the dots have been provided, and then connected, by the NRA, not by Clinton. So, it isn't really Clinton here who is citing the "Communitarian Networks agenda," but rather, his opponents.

I have no doubt Clinton has more sympathy for (and support from) the Communitarian Network than the NRA, but what they have quoted him as saying sounds more like fuzzy Clinton weaselspeak than an endorsement of a political agenda. Classic "third way" nonsense, trying to sound post-partisan by invoking terms that nobody really understands, in order to distance oneself from the label of the "left".

Quote:“Communitarianism” Finds Favor by Dana Milbank, The Washington Post

February 1, 2001, Thursday, Final Edition SECTION: A SECTION; Pg. A01

The problem, some Bush advisers and friends say, is that conventional political definitions do not adequately explain what the president is trying to do. His actions have less to do with the left vs. right, they say, than with his embrace of many of the ideas contained in the movement known as "communitarianism," which places the importance of society ahead of the unfettered rights of the individual.

"This is the ultimate Third Way," said Don Eberly, an adviser in the Bush White House, using a favorite phrase of President Bill Clinton, who also sought, largely unsuccessfully, to redefine the debate with an alternative to the liberal-conservative conflict. "The debate in this town the last eight years was how to forge a compromise on the role of the state and the market. This is a new way to rethink social policy: a major reigniting of interest in the social sector."

"Communitarianism," or "civil society" thinking (the two have similar meanings) has many interpretations, but at its center is a notion that years of celebrating individual freedom have weakened the bonds of community and that the rights of the individual must be balanced against the interests of society as a whole. Inherent in the philosophy is a return to values and morality, which, the school of thought believes, can best be fostered by community organizations. "We need to connect with one another. We've got to move a little more in the direction of community in the balance between community and the individual," said Robert D. Putnam of Harvard University, a leading communitarian thinker.

Quote:If the concept is that Democrats have a more community-centric view of citizenship, liberty, and the role of the state than Libertarians do, and therefore are more sympathetic to contemporary developments in political philosophy that emphasize those aspects, then that would be correct, but definitely not news.

Quote:If the idea is that there is a vast left wing conspiracy centered around the shadowy ideology of Communitarianism, then I think what I've seen falls way, way short of the mark.

Quote:Speaking of Not News, have you noticed that all this stuff seems a bit... dated? Like, from Clinton's first term?

Quote:So, in other words, they wear tinfoil hats.

Quote:Yes, I agree it is not news. I guess what is new to me is the coalescing of political thought from Democrat to Republican around this "Third Way" which has become a destructive force for individual liberty. My father was a union Blue Dog democrat, and my mother was a Eisenhower Republican. Their common politic bond was on the rights and responsibilities of the individual. This third way is contrary to any politics I knew growing up.

Quote:Right. There is no conspiracy. It is out in the open, at least in the halls of academia and permeating the worlds governments and the UN. Being that people do not outright label themselves as "Communitarians", but rather chose non-descriptive party labels like Democrat or Repuplican makes opposing their ideologies more difficult. People vote along party lines thinking, "Democrats stand for this which I'm for, and Republican stand for this, which I'm against." When that line of thinking is total crap, then what we have is a deluded electorate and a political party system which has so commingled itself as to become meaningless.

Quote:Well, I was specifically looking at Clinton, so that is why much of what I've posted is dated. Here is something more recent from Dr. Etzioni (the Father of Neo-Communitarianism) about Obama on the Huffy post.

Quote:Perhaps, but it's hardly new politics on any global standard. The distinction between individualist and collectivist politics is as old as the hills. To give just one analysis, Samuel Beer's classic book "British Politics in the Collectivist Age" describes exactly this issue, but at a century's remove. It is at least as old as the Roman Republic, and probably much older.

Quote:That might have made some quantity of sense from, say, 1988 to 2001, but the last 7 years of Bush's term have surely taught us that, whatever else may be true, the two parties do not have the same vision for the US in some very, very important respects. Not least, this is true because Bush demonstrated (once "compassionate conservatism" had been buried in a shallow grave on Sept. 12, 2001) that he and his administration were about as Communitarian as the Chinese Communist Party are Anarchist.

Quote:I don't think it's particularly surprising or relevant that the self-proclaimed leader of this movement both sees his own ideas in the see-what-you-want-to-see president, and also wants to publicly connect himself and his movement with the most popular political figure since Reagan. Whether Obama gives two figs for this fruit or not, I have no idea. I can't tell anything from Etzioni, except that he is very fond of his own ideas.

Quote:I would disagree only that the Bush administration focus on "Common Good" or his perversion of Communitarianism extended into pre-emptive war and domestic spying. Attacks on liberty from the right are just as chilling as psuedo-collectivism from the left.