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The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - Taem - 09-13-2003

It would seem I am at an impasse with Diablo 2. Before the beta was released, I played off and on, waiting for 1.1 to arrive with the firm belief it would be here "any day" now as Blizzard had be believing. Then the beta came out and even though it had a lot of new changes, I came to realize its still just Diablo 2 – the game I got sick and tired of. To be honest, I was never too thrilled with the story, but the sound and game play were superior to any game out there, not to mention it was Diablo. I know the graphics aren’t the best, but I really like them. Since the beta, I have not only neglected to play D2, LoD, but have sold my CD's because I don't believe I'll ever play Diablo 2, LoD again.

Which brings me to my point: I get the feeling from most of the Lurkers (and Diablo players in general) out there that Diablo 2 is a great game, but is loosing steam. I feel it’s almost time (for me at least) to get seriously into a different game, but which one? For me, two upcoming titles stand out strongly in the crowd, making my decision lay in one of two directions.

On one hand there is World of Warcraft (made by Blizzard), soon to be in beta testing. I see this game as a strong possibility for the next game I get seriously into. For one, it’s made by Blizzard, the company that made some of my favorite games of all time. Two, its massive and very detailed from what I’ve seen so far, expanding greatly on the idea of races, class, and skills.

On the other hand there is Guild Wars (made by Arena.Net – original Blizzard North members), boasting a new skill and mission system that has never been in any MMO before (although the way they describe mission activation reminds me a lot of Diablo 1). It’s also going to be free to play in the USA.

Both have strong possibilities IMO, but what I really want to know is, which of these two titles most excites you lurkers? For me, Guild Wars is the game I'm really looking forward too, but when both games are released with months of each other, which will you be playing?

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - Mithrandir - 09-13-2003

WoW definitely has some potential. I'm hesitant to put all my eggs in one basket and herald WoW as the Second Coming, as I see so many people doing. Blizz has burned me too many times in the past to truly believe everything they are claiming.

Guild Wars, on the other hand, I am sorry to say is vaporware. No MMORPG that updates regularly, patches regularly, and offers fast servers can possible survive without a monthly fee.

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - jondifool - 09-13-2003

I am most thrilled by Warhammer Online! http://www.warhammeronline.com/
to be released in spring 2004. (just a warning the website is not the most friendly for a newcommer, but there is a lot there when diging a little.

Most americans would not know warhammer and most europeans would think about the billion selling boardgame. But its base on their roleplaying game, placed in the fantasy world described in 100+ books. A rolepalying game I realy liked for its storys and an ok nice skillbased system.

what they are looking to do interest me alot.

A skillbased system not lvl based (making it easyer for friends to play together with a developed and an new character)
An really serius though PvE envirement (its a very grim world where most roleplaying characters where bound to die runing out off luck!)
PvP to be based on characther choices (bountyhunters to catch outlaws).
A world on the sice of England! maybe with real time travel (even when taking a coach= thats roleplay ok we are done here , lets meet next week in altdorf!!)
an interesting concept for monsterspawns (an random placed ork would walk until 3 have meet, there they will form a camp, and that camp spawns in the heavy guys , forming a horde to ravage the farmlands!
An very interesting magic system, as well as an fighting system where lowlvl are not just butchered by high ones.

But ofcause a lot of my interest comes from knowing the atmosphere they a trying to create. But I would really like to hear others opinion there are not as prefixed as mine are!

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - Bolty - 09-13-2003

I've been looking at Guild Wars a lot lately, but as Mith said, it just doesn't seem like a company can make a profit with their scheme. Either they're not going to provide the super-magico-fantastic support and updates they're promising, or there WILL be a monthly fee.

I would love for there to be a clear winner game that we can all get into here. But I'm not seeing it. I'll borrow from something Lemming said recently that all the games out now or in the recent future are either:

1) great single player games only
2) good games but with crappy multiplayer
3) MMORPGs

The problem with a MMORPG on the Lounge is that there is little we can discover about it through code-digging. The element that posts here and enjoys doing this will be left out. Any gameplay discoveries and observations will have to come via extensive game testing, which unfortunately is not as accurate.

-Bolty

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - WarLocke - 09-13-2003

If someone made an MMORPG of this game, I'd be so sold:

[Image: FM3_Simulation.JPG]

Front Mission: Online? Aww yeah...

Oh yeah, and a shameless derail: New Front Mission 4 screens at Gamers.com. It's really looking nice - it'll be cool to find out what happened on Huffman island after the first game. And I still have to find FM2 and FM: Alternative. I love these games. :ph34r:

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - jondifool - 09-13-2003

Well for me the lounge part is partly about discoveries and codedigging and some is about making "crazy" builds viable going off the main road, exploring possibilitys!

And here mmorpg have a real potential, offcause depending on gamemecanics.

I have begun playing starwars just to try a mmorpg, and the building a character part in that is for the time just as enjoyable as diablo2 ever was. And for discoverys in codedigging in an mmorpg updated daily its freaking hart just to keep oriented about what happend in the pathchanges.

what amazes me is how many different "games" in the starwars mmorpg people actual plays!
And that is actual what i thinks going to be an important part in define a winner mmorpg! One there can satisfy some clear game objectives for the powergames and have alot of different "games in it".

But lets face it all mmorpgs is still babys for a long time yet!
you have so many elements to play with in them but not a worked through game mecanic to juggle with the features! And neither the experience off what it is the gamers want!

For my part i am split between wanting a weekly day with good friends having a good time doing roleplaying and simply dive deep into a game world of unknown adventure, and on the other side I also want to analyze, understand and play to win some off the other weekdays hmm!

I could wish also to see a clear winner, but that really difficult! maybe the best shot would be the most inovative as this is still a pioner field!

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - Count Duckula - 09-13-2003

Not to be a snothead or anything, but people can always take $100-$300 of their own money and raise a gaming website about whatever they darn well please. Hey, if Bolty can do it... ;)

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - Bolty - 09-14-2003

Count Duckula,Sep 13 2003, 04:18 PM Wrote:Not to be a snothead or anything, but people can always take $100-$300 of their own money and raise a gaming website about whatever they darn well please. Hey, if Bolty can do it... ;)
As any webmaster will tell you, it's not the money, it's the time investment. Running such a site is always more work than people realize. I'm not claiming that I'm pouring 20 hours a week into the site right now, but at one time (start of D2 through the expansion release) I was. You have to love the game and love the website, or you won't get far.

-Bolty

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - NiteFox - 09-14-2003

WarLocke,Sep 13 2003, 04:17 PM Wrote:Front Mission: Online?  Aww yeah...
My. God. Yes.

That is one of the things that could work poorly or very well indeed. Imagine managing your Panzer, either as an individual mercenary or part of a much larger group. Militias, armies, terrorist groups, you name it the Front Mission universe has plenty of room for it all. A well-executed FM MMORPG would be one thing I'd drop the money on a new PC and a subscription for, as even the thought of SW Galaxies leaves me cold.

Still, I'd settle for a GBA port and translation of the first game personally. (Yes, I have played through the fan translated version several times. No links necessary for this gamer.) With FFT being ported, p'raps the thought might occur to Square. Hell, I'd buy it for the music alone.

Edit: Hold the phones - Top linkage awaits.

Front Mission Online? Is that what you wanted, sir? PS2 only it seems though <_<

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - WarLocke - 09-14-2003

Huh huh zuh? Guess I'll have to get myself a PS2 then. B)

I wonder what'll happen with the FM1 remake. I guess the graphics might be redone to be more gritty (as FM1 is almost cartoony in style compared to FM3) and maybe add some CG, sort of like the FF3 remake awhile back.

Mechanically, a FM MMORPG would be pretty easy, I think (but I'm a layperson, so take my opinion with a mound of salt). If the turn-based system was kept (and it would have to be to be a FM game, IMO) I don't see there being many problems with lag or latency. What players would do in the game is another matter, but you've laid out several ideas and I'm sure the FM team could expand on those ideas even more, considering the effort and ingenuity that went into FM3's internet.

I just hope they don't stick exactly to the FM3 system. The battle skills bit is annoying. Random learning + random activation = high frustration. Learning them randomly is fine, but IMO they should have been available anytime, you'd just have to spend extra AP to use them. Or something.

FM1 as a GBA port might be fun, an 'official' translation might even turn out better, too. But how the heck is FFT supposed to fit in a GBA cart? They'd have to drop the CG sequences and redo the music, at the least...

Oh yeah, and I want a MIDAS. :blink:

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - NiteFox - 09-14-2003

From what I gather, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance isn't the same game as the PSX original. I gather it uses the same core rules, but isn't a direct port of the original. In other words, Square have gone back to telling good stories without the aid of goddamned pre-rendered sequences.

Hell, Christmas seems to be a good time to be a strategy nut with releases (At least over in Europe, I gather the Yanks have been much more lucky) of FFTA, Tactics Ogre, and Advance Wars 2, but I digress.

The problem I can see with FM:O on the PS2 is that it ain't gonna be a MMORPG. It'll probably be similar to Resident Evil Online (Of which I have plenty of griefs with, ask me later), and I can't help but think that much of the vs. play will be rehashes of the original's VS Arena, minus the fiddly password system :P

FM:O probably will not be a persistent world, probably more like a tactical MechAssault II. Only the PC could do a MMORPG any justice.

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - SwissMercenary - 09-14-2003

Bolty,Sep 13 2003, 04:05 PM Wrote:1) great single player games only
2) good games but with crappy multiplayer
3) MMORPGs
Hey! Are you saying that Tribes 3 will have crappy multiplayer?

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - Taem - 09-15-2003

Count Duckula,Sep 13 2003, 01:18 PM Wrote:Not to be a snothead or anything, but people can always take $100-$300 of their own money and raise a gaming website about whatever they darn well please. Hey, if Bolty can do it... ;)
Humm. I think my post was mis-understood, or perhaps I worded it poorly. What I meant was "what did those individuals on the Lurker Lounge plan on playing in the future", not "will the lounge cover these games in the future?" It would seem people thought I meant the latter, but I did not. Just curious if anyone here was getting excited about WoW and GuildWars and if they were thinking of playing them in the future any why.

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - Occhidiangela - 09-15-2003

Guildwars because they are trying a new concept in game presentation, for good or ill and Mithy's vaporware comment is a caution worth heeding, and WoW for the consistent product success of Blizzard.

Mind you, I still think their finest product was Star Craft, by about an order of magnitude. Simple enough, and complex enough, to suit a wide variety of tastes, a "spot on" feel and atmosphere, and a "just right" sense of humor and story to flesh it out.

What WoW will do, or not, is capture some of the better points of their Diablo series and make it worth spending time on in the Warcraft Universe with some gucci graphics.

Like Diablo or D & D ages ago, without fun people to play with I doubt WoW will be worth playing. :(

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - Selby - 09-15-2003

Count Duckula,Sep 13 2003, 02:18 PM Wrote:Not to be a snothead or anything, but people can always take $100-$300 of their own money and raise a gaming website about whatever they darn well please. Hey, if Bolty can do it... ;)
Not only is it not about the money, it's about coding for the site! It's almost a full time job running websites, even if you aren't the one who provides the gaming related content!

That being said, I am jaded and bitter towards all of the MMOGs out there. Most are either EQ levelup clones ('cause that's where the money is), big franchises that are just rehashes of existing games (SWG), or independent releases that lack something.

No game is the second coming. I've found that out through observation of the community that plays them and the games that are released.

Selby

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - pakman - 09-16-2003

Honestly, I don't see the need for me to play an MMOG. If I want a game, I want to pay for it once, not continually. Free games like Counter-Strike and Day of Defeat are doing just fine for me. Another thing is that I don't need anymore heroine. Games like Eve, SWG, AO, EQ, etc, are incredibly time consuming just like counter-strike can be. I have a friend, whos friend (follow that?) that basically quit eveything so he could play EQ, and his aunt pays for everything.

If I ever play an MMOG, it will probably end up being Planetside because it's an FPS, but it won't happen anytime soon.

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - WarLocke - 09-16-2003

Well, getting back on topic, these are the MMORPGs I sort-of have my eyes on:


City of Heroes, simply because a superhero MMORPG has yet to be done and despite some recent changes it still seems to be touting original concepts.

World of Warcraft, as has been said, will at the least be a high-quality production, being by Blizzard and all. I'm not as certain as others that it will be a smashing success, because after all this is Blizzard's first foray into the MMORPG field. Sure, they can learn from others' mistakes, but that's not quite the same as learning from your own. In any case, WOW will be graphically (if not technically) stunning.

I haven't gone out of my way to follow Guild Wars, but what I've seen looks interesting. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, as it does sound like vaporware (Diakatana, Duke Nuke'em Forever, or The Indestructibles, anyone?)

And that's basically it for the MMORPGs I'm interested in. There are a ton more singleplayer games that'll suck me in and chew me up, though. Jedi Academy, Homeworld 2, Knights of the Old Republic, Temple of Elemental Evil, the new sort-of-sequel to X-COM, etc etc etc. :blink:

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - NiteFox - 09-16-2003

Last time I checked, DNF was still in production. Done when it's done and all that. I may start a pool on what will happen first - The release of 1.10, the release of DNF, or the Pope's funeral. I got ten bits on the old guy.

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - apandapion - 09-27-2003

I anticipate warhammer online will suck.

Video games from roleplaying games or movies from roleplaying games or games from movies or whatever... they all tend to suck. Enter the matrix. Suck. Underworld game. Suck. Most D&D computer games. Suck. The good ones are the exceptions, which means I ignore the stupid things untill someone tells me that one actually has some quality to it.

The future MMOG for you Lurkers? - WarLocke - 09-27-2003

Underworld has a game already? Sheesh. :blink:

You've summed up what I call the 'Transmedia Degradation' law pretty well. It's why I dread the Battletech film in the works (that and the fact that it's set in the new "dark age"); a well-done 'mechfest would literally roxxor my boxers, but it won't be well-done. :(

And take back that comment about D&D games! Secret of the Silver Blades and Eye of the Beholder rocked! The two Dark Sun games were pretty darn nifty, too.