+- The Lurker Lounge Forums (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Lurker Games (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-6.html)
+--- Forum: Diablo II (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-8.html)
+--- Thread: The Tankazon (/thread-10198.html)
Pages:
1
2
The Tankazon - SwordAzon - 09-25-2003
I'm going to talk a little bit about my tankazon. Having already completed the game with a traditional spearazon a few months ago, I decided to try something new: an amazon who uses a one-hand weapon and shield, and relies purely on passive and magic skills to survive. This warrior is known as a tankazon.
I have just completed the game at normal difficulty (I'm now Clvl 32, and have yet to do the secret cow level). Based on my experience so far, I can safely say that the tankazon is perhaps the deadliest of all amazon types.
I'm not boasting. (remember that I had a spearazon before,and took her all the way up to 64th level).
Every character class or subclass has her/his weakness.This is a general rule that has no exceptions. The tankazon has her strengths and weaknesses, as do all other classes, but the former far outweigh the latter.
Pros:
1) The tankazon is the most versatile of all warriors. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise. The reason is simple: the skills of the 'passive and magic' tree work with ANY weapon. This means that a tankazon can be anything: axazon, maceazon, poleazon, or, in my case, swordazon. (I have chosen a special long sword as my primary weapon). Swords have a faster attack speed than most spears.
2) The tankazon is the hardest character to hit in melee combat. Especially if you use a shield with a high chance of blocking. The combination of shield + her 'dodge' skill (gained at Clvl 6) makes her nearly impossible to hit. This is because the computer has to make two rolls: the first to get past your shield, and the second to get past your dodge' skill. I became convinced of this fact when fighting Izual in Act 4. Izual has more hit points than Diablo (check monster stats in the Diablo 2 bestiary if you don't believe me) and he can take an obscene number of hits before being killed. A friend of mine was watching the fight, and I made a bet with him that I could kill Izual without drinking a single red potion. I just stood there and used my 'inner sight' skill repeatedly. At the time I had only 6 points in 'dodge' and a shield with a 75% chance of blocking. Izual hit me only 3 times, and took my hp down to 12 .But by that time his life meter was nearly invisible. I killed him without drinking a potion,and my friend couldn't believe his eyes ( I had a paladin hireling from Act 2 helping me)
3) The tankazon is equally hard to hit with missles, wether she's standing or moving. Her ' slow missiles' and 'evade' skills are very usefull, especially against those pesky fetish who blow stones at you in Act 3 or the doom lords of hell (Act 4).
4) The cool thing about 'passive and magic' skills is that most of them do not require mana. This means you do not have to spend too many points on energy (my energy is only 20 at Clvl 32). You can spare those points for Str and Dex instead. Also, you don't have to waste any points for pre-requisite needs. Every skill in the tree is usefull, and nothing is wasted. This gives you full value for your skill points.
5) At any point in the game, you can decide to drop your shield, and use a two-handed weapon if the need arises, giving for even more versatility.
6) The 'Valkyre'is one of the most powerfull minions in the game ( although you have to wait until Clvl 30 to get it).
Cons:
1) The tankazon is a more defensive type of warrior. She does not have as many offensive skills as the traditional javazon or spearazon. She cannot benefit from multiple attacks,because she does not have access to 'jab' or 'fend' skills. (Remember that a true tankazon relies purely and solely on 'passive magic' . If you put points elsewhere, then you are not a true tankazon).This means that the tankazon must rely on two things to deliver the damage: a strong weapon, and her 'critical strike' skill, which gives her a chance to do double damage with each strike.
2) The tankazon does not have any elemental damage skills. Again she must rely on her weapons or other magical items if possible.
3) Too much blocking with your shield can cause the famous 'block- lock'which can be a pain in the ass sometimes.
As for PvsP, I can probably challenge any barbarian or paladin of equal level, and give them one hell of a fight.
_____________________________________________________________
Conclusion : Overall, I'd say that the tankazon is a very successful warrior. She is a joy to play and develop. She is simply a 'Barbarian with B**bs' :D
I hope I will have as much success in Nightmare as I've had in Normal difficulty.
The Tankazon - Walkiry - 09-25-2003
Hehehe, that's my favourite character. Things to consider:
1. Ignore Target Defense. This can be found in Scepters and Daggers, but is more interesting for scepters. What is the greatest need for Dex, blocking or AR? Also can be obtained through a Jah rune, but I'd rather save sockets for Shaels or useful damage stuff. With ITD you could just ignore penetrate as well, saving skill points.
2. Crushing blow. How good is your damage output in large games? And in later acts and difficulties? Things are a breeze with 1-2 players games, but add another 4 or 5 players on top and... well :) Open wounds could be interesting as well, specially for the Incredible Monster Regenerationâ¢.
3. Shael those shields! Block speed is atrocious with non-javelin weapons.
4. How many "chance to cast on strike" things are you carrying? ;)
5. Have you reached 7 frame attack speed already?
The Tankazon - Maelgwyn - 09-25-2003
My tank is level 40 and in act2 nm. So far she's had few difficulties. Right now I've equipped her wih a coldsteel eye cutlass and ward shield.
I love the mods on the sword and the speed it's just too bad it won't carry me through hell. :
+200-250% Enhanced Damage (varies)
50% Chance Of Deadly Strike
20% Increased Attack Speed
6% Mana Stolen Per Hit
Slows Target By 30%
Hit Blinds Target
edit :typos
Ps: Did I mention she's HC as well?
The Tankazon - Guest - 09-25-2003
Quote:1) The tankazon is the most versatile of all warriors. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.
the paladin.
* requires low dex for max block so can have more varried stat allocation.
* can have a stunning skill, a speed improvement skill, an anti-undead skill and still have skillpoints over.
* holy freeze, holy fire, holy shock, sanctuary, conviction, fanaticism, blessed aim, ok, all auras but prayer, cost zero mana. except being good for only 20 or less points, they also help your party.
* has defence boosting skills, now with +15% def per level, more than barbarians.
a tankazon can swing a weapon and not get hit much, my oh my how versatile. it might be only me, but that's the most boring thing i can think of. the next monster i'll...swing at it. the one afterwards...i'll swing at it. with a paladin you got so many choices.
if you count in how long you stand around in any combation of stun, dodge or block recovery and how long you take to kill a monster, then you'd find that it's not really that good.
heh, i do can see the lure of playing a tankazon. if only pallies had boobs and didn't look stupid in almost any outfit. pallies do look incredibly cool swinging a 2-handed sword, but i get bored after trying that for 5 mins :(
The Tankazon - Walkiry - 09-25-2003
adamantine,Sep 25 2003, 08:49 PM Wrote:heh, i do can see the lure of playing a tankazon.Well, in big party games you'll be about the best possible tank they could have (other than a Necro with 20 revives, which just gets boring after a while) since you should be better than the minion AI, can stack defense+blocking+passives for great staying power, and has one of the best team-friendly skills in the game, slow missiles. Thinning the crowds requires working with your two available tools (decoy and valky), and honestly I like the fact that you have to work with the monsters in battle. Good basic crowd control, which is what you'll be learning with this character, is a really useful skill to have.
She is most definitely entertaining, and, although I can see why she might not be everyone's cup of tea, she's more fun than the one skill and mow 'em all characters you see around ;)
The Tankazon - Neon Elephant - 09-26-2003
Walkiry,Sep 25 2003, 04:10 AM Wrote:Hehehe, that's my favourite character. Things to consider:1. If you get ITD on a dagger, though, you get the not-horrible blocking speed (since daggers aren't swinging weapons).
1. Ignore Target Defense. This can be found in Scepters and Daggers, but is more interesting for scepters. What is the greatest need for Dex, blocking or AR? Also can be obtained through a Jah rune, but I'd rather save sockets for Shaels or useful damage stuff. With ITD you could just ignore penetrate as well, saving skill points.
Walkiry Wrote:3. Shael those shields! Block speed is atrocious with non-javelin weapons.3. Seriously. Aside from the lack of offensive skills, this would be the biggest issue I see with the tankazon. My current char is a 1.10 mostly-melee javazon, and I found that after the early part of the game it just wasn't worth swapping back to the Skewer of Krinitz, even with a shield of deflecting. Admittedly, that's the only source of FBR I have, and my overall game-experience is fairly limited. Expect some trouble with getting mobbed in NM, though, and I can only imagine that Hell will be worse.
I have to imagine you're also not getting a lot of mileage out of Pierce :-)
The Tankazon - goldfish - 09-26-2003
How about AC? When does the AC roll come in?
And, would it be feasible to try for a high-AC tankazon (corpsemourne or the like, high-def sheild (storm?), etc)?
The Tankazon - Mad Man - 09-26-2003
Just for the heck of it, I made a Hammerzon. She is now L80+ and uses a nice IK Maul (if you are making a Hammerzon, you want the big daddy of all hammers). No might merc for her, she has a Barb merc. It is the silliest build I have ever made, because it gives up all the advantages of shields and uses what is probably the least suitable weapon for the class. But even so it works.
It surely can be done - have fun with it!
The Tankazon - ShadowHM - 09-26-2003
I too have a Lady of the Big Weaponsâ¢, although I have not taken her out for any monster slaying in some time.
BattleShadow is 78 and uses an Honor Colossus Sword, with a Condensing Zwiehander on the weapon switch.
As Walkiry noted, crowd control is the basic lesson needed, as she can only whack one monster at a time.
Since I mostly played Single Player when I made her, I needed an Act 3 Cold Mercenary for the odd dual immune I encountered.
AR is an issue - even with maxed Penetrate (slvl 24 with add-ons) her ability, for example, to hit a Succubus in Hell is only 78 %. What with giving points to strength for the weapon and vitality for the hits that do actually connect, dex is only 148 (including add-ons).
I did hit a point for a while when I could not add points to Valkyrie due to lack of mana to cast her. Otherwise the note about no need for mana/points in energy is quite true.
Lots of Life Steal also makes a difference, to quickly re-fill that life ball when the hits do connect. After all, there is still that 'one monster at a time' thing. See the note above about crowd control. :o
Resists, of course, were always an issue, as for any character but a Barbarian who wields two handed weapons. I chose a Smoke Boneweave armour to help with that issue.
Faster Hit Recovery to hit that 4 frame breakpoint was helpful (63% IIRC).
Items with Deadly Strike were helpful. The Honor Sword gives 25% and Gore Rider Boots added on another 15%. Every little bit helps in Hell, especially when one is addicted to that 'players 8' command. :P
She IS fun to play, and looks like the kid sister who dressed up in her big brother's armour. Style does count, eh?
YMMV
The Tankazon - Walkiry - 09-26-2003
goldfish,Sep 26 2003, 01:19 AM Wrote:How about AC? When does the AC roll come in?Well, the thing with AC is that if you go for it, you'll have to go all the way to the highest possible defense through all your equipment. That means big Strength investment, means either lower life or lower dex (a.k.a. lower block nad bad to-hit).
And, would it be feasible to try for a high-AC tankazon (corpsemourne or the like, high-def sheild (storm?), etc)?
With ignore target's defense you can skip part of that dexterity, accept a lower block rate and hope the AC makes up for it. AC is always checked first.
You'll have to stay close to the monster level for best results too.
The Tankazon - whyBish - 09-26-2003
Walkiry,Sep 26 2003, 10:12 AM Wrote:and has one of the best team-friendly skills in the game, slow missiles.Except that assassin/necro have skills that stop monsters from firing those missiles in the first place :P (Let alone Warcries,auras, curses, spirits, summons (dru&nec) )... oh wait, preaching to the choir ;)
The Tankazon - Guest - 09-26-2003
oh great, everything i typed dissapeared. :angry:
team helping = paladin's 20 auras, necros 10 curses, barbs 10 war cries. as for best, that'd be conviction or decrepify.
i'd love to hear how they handle in 1.10
* collector of souls and minions
* succubii
* frenzytaurs
* skeletal mages(other might be tough but these spawn in crazy numbers)
* archers :D
* the ancients
* oblivion knights
my hammerdin without any uber gear(found items and zero boss runs) managed to kill hell duriel without using a single potion at level 80. although that's not a good comparison since hammers aren't effected by slow and they do insane damage compared to anything else :P
for best damage absorbtion char a sorc might be a better option now, 75%+ energy shield with 20 in telekinesis and 75% block. thanks to cold armours they'll have a higher defence too.
The Tankazon - Occhidiangela - 09-26-2003
1. Need zero Energy investment. Level ups and the odd bit of extra mana from items handle it OK. Waste no points there. Just a hair of mana steal takes care of the rest. Ne Inner Sight will pay BIG dividends as it really goes after DR.
2. With the new Valk, may not need to max the skill till later. New Valk is pretty tough, pretty durable.
3. Weapons Switch. With Block and Avoid at good levels, bosses can go down faster with 2_H weapons. I would recommand a pike/jab, but if you want to not use Jab, that is fine, a Strength War Pike does nice work, as do a variety of other two handed spears. Polearms are my preferred two hander, though, as a matter of style and due to Charis selling me on the Amazonian Variant a way back when.
4. When you get to Hell, choose your merc with care. Use Decoy and Valk to keep your merc from getting swarmed. You will need lots of life to avoid stun when you do get hit, and since you are mixing it up, will need plenty of gold for repairs as you don't want to spend all day resurrecting your merc. Thorns might be a good choice, though I would go with Might or HF. :)
5. Archers. Slow Missile takes care of that, as does Avoid and Evade. Decoy and Valk also give them choices while you whack, but, and this is a big butt like the Amazon's, archers in Hell in large packs can block lock you in a hurry if you don't use the terrain to spoil their aim. A poor connection makes this really suxor in Hell Diff.
6. Crushing Blow is, IMO, a must for Hell diff as an edge against Tedium. Blood Crafts, anyone? :)
The Tankazon - Walkiry - 09-27-2003
whyBish,Sep 26 2003, 12:28 PM Wrote:Except that assassin/necro have skills that stop monsters from firing those missiles in the first place :P (Let alone Warcries,auras, curses, spirits, summons (dru&nec) )... oh wait, preaching to the choir ;)Ah, but the real beauty of it is that slow missiles does not interfere with curses, auras or anything else. It just... slows the missiles :lol:
So, how many angels can dance on the tip of the Tankazon's Sword? ;)
The Tankazon - Snorelax - 09-27-2003
ShadowHM,Sep 26 2003, 01:58 AM Wrote:AR is an issue - even with maxed Penetrate (slvl 24 with add-ons) her ability, for example, to hit a Succubus in Hell is only 78 %. What with giving points to strength for the weapon and vitality for the hits that do actually connect, dex is only 148 (including add-ons).I just checked as I think someone mentioned it elsewhere, but currently in the MPQ's, Penetrate and Critical Strike are set up to work with 1-handed thrusting(javs), 2 handed thrusting (Spears), bows, and crossbows only. Might be why you can't hit things.
The Tankazon - Guest - 09-27-2003
i did...it says so but because of passives to specific weapons being broken(since 1.0), it works with every weapon.
all the barbs weapon masteries have a lot of coding for them to only work with some types.
with the spear melee weapon skills not being improved in 1.10, it seems like amazons(or non-bow at least) have been ignored since 1.0 :(
Quote:5. Archers. Slow Missile takes care of that, as does Avoid and Evade
but how do you handle this? :P no terrain to hide from, and how are you going to dodge all those missiles?
although thanks to the randomness of act 5 you can just re-roll it untill you get no archers :unsure:
The Tankazon - Ahvae'el - 09-29-2003
Hullo SwordAzon.
I tend to agree with Adamantine. Not to be harsh, but first off, the tankazon is so... TEDIOUS. I mean, you do have to mix it up a bit with monster management, but seriously, your only attack is normal attack, and that's really not very good, unless you're weilding a very, very interesting weapon. Which you most likely are not. Even then, if you were doing awesome damage whacking things with a wand, I'd still find it boring after 1-2 hours. Or minutes.
In response to your statement about tankazons being the most versatile character, I'd have to say, generically, every character class except the sorceress has some way to disable monsters whilst doing 2 and perhaps even 3 different types of damage from skills, thus not being helpless against immunes.
The tankazon does have admirable strengths in the following categories:
1) Defense against melee monsters with
a.) % dodging
b.) % blocking
2) Defense against ranged monsters with
a.) % dodging
b.) % blocking
c.) % slowing them
However, she has shocking inadequacy in respect to
1) Offensive capability
a.) against physical immunes and stone skinned bosses
b.) against monsters in any game with more than 2 players ( :o ;) )
2) Defense against
a.) huge mobs (there are some HUGE, unbelievable packs that occasionally spawn in 1.10 that not even the most experienced, uber-twinked, devious tankazon veteran could conquer)
b.) block lock
c.) stunning monsters
3) people who don't want to have their left mouse click perform the exact same function for the entire character's career
Then, take another versatile character subclass, for example, the Defiant Missionary-Avenger with Holy Shield.
He has great advantages, such as
1) Defense capability against melee and ranged monsters with
a.) Holy Shield's absolutely MASSIVE bonus to defense
b.) Holy Shield's mammoth bonus to blocking
c.) the Paladin's natural high blocking in respect to dexerity investment
d.) the almighty Defiance skill, with sick defense bonuses, which, combined with Holy Shield, completely bypass monster attacks, instead of getting sent to ugly, potentially deadly recovery stances (dodge, avoid, evade)
2) Offensive capability containing
a.) physical damage (normal weapon's damage)
b.) Vengeance's almighty fire, lightning, and cold damage
3) Defensive capability against huge packs because of
a.) the ability to protect himself and mercenaries from most all physical attacks, thereby leaving a clear path open to killing the magic monsters
b.) judicious use of the Convert skill, which has a good chance of making plenty of temporary meat shields for you
Compare the two subclasses and I think it's pretty obvious who wins the fight for the most versatile character.
The Tankazon - Obi2Kenobi - 09-29-2003
Quote:Compare the two subclasses and I think it's pretty obvious who wins the fight for the most versatile character.
Exactly... The necromancer. :) Who else can use language so foul that even the monsters of hell flee from you? (Read as: cast the terror curse)
The Tankazon - Guest - 09-29-2003
Quote:Even then, if you were doing awesome damage whacking things with a wand, I'd still find it boring after 1-2 hours. Or minutes.
the same goes for all all barbarian attack skills except for bash(it moves the monster, therefore something else happens), and whirlwind. you just stand there hitting them untill they fall dead for the other skills.
i know not all people think like this, but in the beta(when i started playing again) i've only played a hammerdin, bowazon a bit, and now a sorc. the other (sub)classes a minute or two, but they bored me to death, and hurt my hands due to pressing a mousebutton for too long.
many might find that bowazons are boring to play, but the fact you can aim at different places(not just poke the nearest monster...then the next), piercing shots(again shooting different places and positioning yourself, to make the pierced arrow hit several targets) and area effect attacks makes them for me a million types more fun for me than melee characters.
those kind of things could of been added to melee characters, like spears piercing(just like arrows) through monsters by chance with your pierce skill, or having axes hit 2 monsters in a row, things like that. but now there's just a few unique melee skills, others have different damages(or casts a spell which another class already has, wow how variated) and sometimes autohits at several targets, which is even more boring.
The Tankazon - Ahvae'el - 09-29-2003
Hullo Adamantine.
All I have to say is "True Dat," with the fullest gravity. hehe.
I NEVER play characters that can only hit one target with their main skill, with the sole exception of the PD necro, which almost a ranged character, not a melee character, in terms of management and tactics and stuff.
Remember the Bard easter egg character in D1, that could hit adjacent enemies with her swing? That was great. That, and your suggestions, are what would have made me play the boring classes, I mean... melee classes, more.
I also agree that the necro is the most versatile character, because of the AI modifying curses, but there's another thing that shouldn't be overlooked as the tiebreaker: bone walls/prisons. He can change the monsters' behaviors and change the map... can anyone say omnipotent? I can! He's godly.
Good night, and Buena Suerte.