Quote:An idiot's argument.

Quote:I don't need to be a major league pitcher to recognize poor pitching.

Quote:Are you blind, do you choose not to see, or have you not been in an airport since 9/11? By "dubious characters", I presume you mean people with big noses, a dark complexion and a full beard. Preferably stinking of camel dung and wearing a turban. Because, after all, we all know those ragheads all look alike and can easily be picked out by the well trained minimum wage government employees manning the security gates and making us take off our sneakers to make sure we don't have an assault rifle hidden in them.

Quote:As to the rest, the illegal immigrant problem has by no means been fixed. If illiterate, unprepared, uneducated people can still get into the country in large numbers, you think the measures taken by HS are going to keep trained agents out? If so, I'd suggest you go get a reality check.

Quote:You argue as if the only choices are appeasement and continuing the spasm this administration has been having.

Quote:Indeed, my greatest complaint is that nothing *effective* is being done in spite of the time, the people, and the money wasted by the present batch of incompetents.

Quote:"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Yeah, it's a quote from SF, but it's still a good point.

Quote:So, "Fortress America"? A big wall, mine fields, barbed wire, guard dogs, and thousands of armed patrols? Quite a nice message to send to our allies, neighbors, and trading partners in Mexico and Canada.

Don't be an ass. You praise the work of HS, I show you that it's all spin and lies and you accuse me of asking for Fortress America? Again, are you trying to look stupid?

Quote:So, continue to regurgitate the administration's propaganda. Be one of the last to see the truth.

Quote:Might still didn't make right, but in this case stupidity did let justice down.

Quote:QUOTE 
So, continue to regurgitate the administration's propaganda. Be one of the last to see the truth.



Bah. I'm no apologist for this administration. I'm just unwilling to focus only on the negative. This administration has its short comings, and I'm willing to discuss them and I have. Our President may not be the leader that you, or I, or many may want -- we shall see in November -- but, the government is made up of much more than him. What I most see from you is insults, criticism, and rancor -- rather than anything substantitive which we might discuss. Anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot, and all I can say is it must be pretty lonely at the top of your mountain.

Quote:Anyway my point is, it is good that also in the US a lot of people oppose to this kind of propaganda and don't "continue to regurgitate " it. If you check history this propaganda (ussually in war time) they are filled with lies. During the vietnam war a group of people allready opposed to this, now everybody sees it was wrong.

Quote:As last example I want to mention the "trick" of Bush' friend Aznar.

Quote:Tell you what, give me one example where a democracy invaded a non-democratic country, imposed democracy, moved out, and the imposed democracy survived one decade after the invader left.

Quote:What I want is to find solutions to terrorism and analyze what have been the results, whether good or bad, of what's happened so far.

Quote:Yeah, but to do so you need to understand how things evolve on the world scale. And to do *that* you need to know some history. If every time a certain situation arose the outcome was negative, it takes ignorance or partisanship (or optimism bordering on idiocy) to expect different results the next time that situation occurred. But that is *exactly* what the "at least we brought democracy to Iraq" fools are claiming. Will this be the exception -- possible but not probable.

Quote:Ignorance? Yeah, it is ignorant to bring up terrorism in a discussion on the invasion of Iraq.

Quote:At least my bile has some substance. Unlike the regurgitations of those who ignorantly continue to repeat the administration's party line.

Quote:Indeed, similarly unrealistic litmus tests are applied to the war on terrorism itself. Too often people talk about winning the war on terrorism, defeating al-Qaeda, or ending terrorism. Let me be the bearer of bad news: that will not happen. One cannot defeat terrorism. Terrorism, prostitution, drugs -- there are certain infamous business ventures that have always been around and will be around for quite some time. Counterterrorism, therefore, is not about defeating terrorism, it is about constricting the operating environment -- making it harder for terrorists to do what they want to do at every level, such as conducting operations, procuring and transferring false documents, ferrying fugitives from one place to another, and financing, raising, and laundering funds. We need to make it more difficult for terrorists to conduct their operational, logistical and financial activities. We need to deny then the freedom of movement to conduct these activities. In fact, one can so constrict a terrorist group’s operating environment that it will eventually suffocate. In its day the Abu Nidal organization was the al-Qaeda of its time, and it no longer exists. A time will come when the primary international terrorist threat will no longer be posed by al-Qaeda, but by then there will be other groups.

Quote:These seeds of a pluralistic society in Iraq are now being uprooted - even as coalition forces try to plant them - by swarms of radicals from across the Muslim world who enter Iraq primarily from Syria and Iran but also from Saudi Arabia, to take advantage of Iraq's newfound status as a failing state. Iraq has now become a magnet drawing Baathists, Sunni terrorists, Shia radicals and others opposed to the development of a peaceful, pluralistic society in Iraq, much like Afghanistan, Somalia, parts of Yemen, Georgia's Pankisi Gorge, Chechnya and other undergoverned territories.

Quote:There was a raid last night by the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force. What they raided was a training camp near Samanpak (sp). And you can see the explosion along on the map near Samanpak (sp). This raid occurred in response to information that had been gained by coalition forces from some foreign fighters we encountered from other countries, not Iraq. And we believe that this camp had been used to train these foreign fighters in terror tactics. It is now destroyed.

Quote:One point that he makes that I disagree with is his lumping of all terrorists into one group. Taken to its logical conclusion, the IRA, the Basque, the various Militia and KKK in the USA would all be working with Al-Queda. That there are multiple terrorists groups with common goals is not in question. That they interact, even sometimes work together again is not a question. But that an Islamic secular state, which the fundamentalist Muslims abhor would work together with a terrorist group of those same fundament defies logic.

Quote:Even Israel seems to be descending into the barbarism of the Middle East rather than bringing the region up to the civilization of the Western democracies. For stability, the ratio of fundamentalist lunatics to rational citizens must be large. That does not seem to be the case there.

Pete,Mar 17 2004, 08:54 AM Wrote:Less than half the nation wanted him in the first place.

Quote:The Iraqi regime rebuffed a request from Riyadh for the extradition of two Saudis who had hijacked a Saudi Arabian Airlines flight to Baghdad, but did return promptly the passengers and the aircraft. Disregarding its obligations under international law, the regime granted political asylum to the hijackers and gave them ample opportunity to ventilate in the Iraqi Government-controlled and international media their criticisms of alleged abuses by the Saudi Arabian Government, echoing an Iraqi propaganda theme.

Several expatriate terrorist groups continued to maintain offices in Baghdad, including the Arab Liberation Front, the inactive 15 May Organization, the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), and the Abu Nidal organization (ANO). PLF leader Abu `Abbas appeared on state-controlled television in the fall to praise Iraq's leadership in rallying Arab opposition to Israeli violence against Palestinians. The ANO threatened to attack Austrian interests unless several million dollars in a frozen ANO account in a Vienna bank were turned over to the group.

Quote:and they continue to imply, despite a complete lack of evidence.

Pete,Mar 17 2004, 08:54 AM Wrote:I have never met Shrub or any member of his administration.  Thus, my distaste for them cannot be based on personal rancor.  All that leaves is their policies and actions.  I was not impressed by those prior to 9/11, and unlike the majority that seem to be seeking a Rambo solution, I am not impressed by much of anything they've done since.

Quote:Sorry, but last time I checked, Iraq was an independent nation. We have no right to set up laws. Bush senior was an idiot for not completing the job in '91 and his son is an idiot for this bull**** in '01. If we are going to invade Iraq and run it, then let's do that. If we're not, then leave them the hell alone.