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+--- Thread: Professional Farmers (/thread-5262.html)
Professional Farmers - Guest - 12-05-2005
His addressing my supposed need of "education" was attacking the poster not the subject too.
Professional Farmers - SwissMercenary - 12-05-2005
Ghostiger,Dec 5 2005, 01:04 AM Wrote:His addressing my supposed need of "education" was attacking the poster not the subject too.
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So does that mean that if I walk into a discussion on Quantum Mechanics, and start yapping on and on, with the consideration that my knowledge on the subject is based off a stack of pseudo-scientific rags that I took a glance at a few years back... And when I'm told to sod off, and do some research on what I'm talking about, that's a personal attack?
Professional Farmers - Occhidiangela - 12-05-2005
Ghostiger,Dec 4 2005, 07:04 PM Wrote:His addressing my supposed need of "education" was attacking the poster not the subject too.
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That was hardly an attack. If you perceived that as an attack, particularly given the to and fro of the preceding posts, your skin is far too thin for internet discussion except under the most antiseptic conditions. There is spilled beer here at the Lounge, although the company is on the whole congenial.
Of course, if you walk around with a chip on your shoulder long enough, it will eventually get bumped off.
The story of the boy who cried "Wolf!" is surely familiar to you. Applying its lessons is my advice -- offered free of charge, and thus worth about every cent you paid for it. :whistling:
Occhi
Professional Farmers - TheWesson - 12-06-2005
kandrathe,Dec 3 2005, 11:39 AM Wrote:I don't have time to educate you on the nature of inflation. Here is a link to an analysis of the state of things in 16th century Spain.
Suffice it to say that inflation is a combination of many factors, supply, demand and money supply. Spain saw all those factors converge in a short period of time, with fewer producers, more consumers, and huge influxes of gold into the money supply.
Wikipedia - Causes of Inflation
If you extend 16th Century Spain to WoW, as toons cap they enter the luxury class and will not be bothered to farm an item, supply therefore drops and demand remains constant or increases. Couple that with the steady increase in money supply devaluing gold, and you will see high inflation on all goods and services. The more gold that drops and is not spent into the game (mounts, training, faction stuff, etc) devalues all the gold on the server.
Trust me, as someone who plays the AH religiously, I'm watching the prices on most things creep upward every week. I call that inflation.
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But why do you think there is gold but few or no objects to be purchased with that gold entering the WoW economy?
The toons-capping idea is interesting --- but are you really supposing that capped toons, MC-worthy and beyond, do not purchase anything? and merely accumulate gold from gold drops and selling to vendors?
and therefore have chronically surplus gold?
you lvl-60's out there how about that, do you have "too much gold" and can't even spend it except by throwing it around like water?
i know my sole lvl-60 is chronically poor. i kind of gather a lot of lvl-60's end up farming for gold to be able to continue raiding, given the expense in pot's and repairs ... any other sample-points (lvl 60er's) want to offer their view of the world?
edit:
don't the 'older' lvl-60 toons end up selling BoE blues and purples to the 'younger' lvl-60 toons, just to make money?
don't a lot of lvl-60 toons just retire, when an alt is made?
personally I think that eventually everything on the server will be priced in terms of how much gold a lvl-60 makes per hour - and be stable around that point.
i suspect that a capped toon makes about 2g an hour and so whatever mats take a half hour to gather will converge to be worth about 1g.
Professional Farmers - Chesspiece_face - 12-06-2005
TheWesson,Dec 5 2005, 10:12 PM Wrote:i suspect that a capped toon makes about 2g an hour and so whatever mats take a half hour to gather will converge to be worth about 1g.
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I think that most capped characters actually make much more than this. if you are talking about just doing small scale raids, it's not much more. Maybe around 3-4g depending on size and luck of drops. Most vendor trash in the 55+ instances sells for 80-2g easily so 1 or two drops of that and you are already over your estimate. Add in possible BoE greed drops and that shoots up by a lot.
Even if you look at an hour of farming for gold most players could get at least 4-5 gold in an hour between cash drops and vendor trash. Then add in cloth and other items that you can AH and your GPH is more like 10-15 and that is a relaxed estimate.
Professional Farmers - fractaled - 12-06-2005
Chesspiece_face,Dec 6 2005, 04:13 AM Wrote:I think that most capped characters actually make much more than this. if you are talking about just doing small scale raids, it's not much more. Maybe around 3-4g depending on size and luck of drops. Most vendor trash in the 55+ instances sells for 80-2g easily so 1 or two drops of that and you are already over your estimate. Add in possible BoE greed drops and that shoots up by a lot. I was able to do 8-12 gold in 45 minutes by farming the ~48-50 turtles in the hinterlands. This was back when there was no town there though, so it might be more crowded, but it would save the travel time to a vendor (Tarren Mill for Horde). This was also with skinning, as a balance druid. So downtime was minimal, and I was able to skin others' leftover kills, but kill rate wasn't great. That's also not including rare drops that would improve the gold rate, but didn't happen often.
Even if you look at an hour of farming for gold most players could get at least 4-5 gold in an hour between cash drops and vendor trash. Then add in cloth and other items that you can AH and your GPH is more like 10-15 and that is a relaxed estimate.
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That was the highest area I could farm with no risk watching TV. With better equipment, who knows. I showed a mage friend the area, and he was able to get about 5 kills in the time i got 2-3, and had to sit and drink in the time it took me to get another (he wasn't a skinner though).
I think ~3g an hour is reasonable if you're doing incompetent instance runs. No idea as for raids as I never did any. Bad runs can obviously cause repair bills to mount of course.
Professional Farmers - Chesspiece_face - 12-06-2005
fractaled,Dec 6 2005, 12:01 AM Wrote:I was able to do 8-12 gold in 45 minutes by farming the ~48-50 turtles in the hinterlands. This was back when there was no town there though, so it might be more crowded, but it would save the travel time to a vendor (Tarren Mill for Horde). This was also with skinning, as a balance druid. So downtime was minimal, and I was able to skin others' leftover kills, but kill rate wasn't great. That's also not including rare drops that would improve the gold rate, but didn't happen often.
That was the highest area I could farm with no risk watching TV. With better equipment, who knows. I showed a mage friend the area, and he was able to get about 5 kills in the time i got 2-3, and had to sit and drink in the time it took me to get another (he wasn't a skinner though).
I think ~3g an hour is reasonable if you're doing incompetent instance runs. No idea as for raids as I never did any. Bad runs can obviously cause repair bills to mount of course.
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At the moment I can clear 2 instances of SM with my capped paladin (not great gear) in about 1:30. If i dont get any BoE drops i get about 10g in cash/vendor trash/and AH items. I've gotten a couple runs where i come out with a handful of BoE items in addition to that which can easily add up to an additional 30+g for 1:30 work. When 1.9 hits i'll be able to tear through these runs even faster.
Professional Farmers - Raven Vale - 12-06-2005
Nothing to see here . OOps
:blush:
Professional Farmers - kandrathe - 12-06-2005
TheWesson,Dec 5 2005, 10:12 PM Wrote:But why do you think there is gold but few or no objects to be purchased with that gold entering the WoW economy?I don't.
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I said it was irrelevant what items are purchased, since I was focused on the idea of money supply. My view is that there is more gold entering the economy than is destroyed via consumption, and as more toons cap, the money supply will grow out of control. As I see it, there are commodities (equipment, enchant mats, essences of fire, earth, water, air, etc) that are consumed in use/crafting, and there are static money sinks (mounts, training, reputation turn ins).
Quote:The toons-capping idea is interesting --- but are you really supposing that capped toons, MC-worthy and beyond, do not purchase anything? and merely accumulate gold from gold drops and selling to vendors?After 60, there is some period of time when you "complete" your end game outfit, but the rate of change slows, and it will be more based on BOPS than purchased items. You no longer dump money into training, you have bought your epic mount, you farm all the rep you need, and at some point everything becomes excess.
and therefore have chronically surplus gold?
Quote:you lvl-60's out there how about that, do you have "too much gold" and can't even spend it except by throwing it around like water?My raiding toon's expenses are usually < 2g per night. As an alchemist I can earn that quickly if needed by selling my Arcanite transmute, but I usually earn money "farming" for reputation or hunting for an elusive item (Blue Dragon Sinew). On a night when I die alot, my repair bill can be as high as 5g.
i know my sole lvl-60 is chronically poor. i kind of gather a lot of lvl-60's end up farming for gold to be able to continue raiding, given the expense in pot's and repairs ... any other sample-points (lvl 60er's) want to offer their view of the world?
When I want to "farm" I can earn 10-30g in an hour, barring the occasional quality drop which fetches much more.
Quote:edit:Most 60's are guilded, and excess BOE's are usually trickled down into the guild where they will benefit the guild most. For example, if on a MC raid a BOE purple belt drops and no one on that raid can use it, then it gets banked and a guild member can purchase the belt (with raid points) from the bank. At the point where all guild members own the item, the item would get traded to another guild, or at the extreme AH.
don't the 'older' lvl-60 toons end up selling BoE blues and purples to the 'younger' lvl-60 toons, just to make money?
Quote:don't a lot of lvl-60 toons just retire, when an alt is made?There are two games, the "get to 60" game, and the "now I'm 60" game. Blizzard has done much to make both viable. I have one level 60 toon capped last May, and a number of alts (who are the support team). My 60 still has unfinished (non-dungeon) business, and has the opportunity to raid 3 or 4 nights per week, and all weekend if I desire it.
Quote:personally I think that eventually everything on the server will be priced in terms of how much gold a lvl-60 makes per hour - and be stable around that point.If you look at any "commodity" on the AH there is a supply and demand curve. For example, I spend an hour once in awhile fishing up 20-30 Deviate Fish, cook them up as Savory Deviate Delight and sell them at the AH for ~20-40s ea. The price I can fetch depends on how many are listed, and the "current market" price. Invariably there will be someone selling way below market (which I buy) and some way above market. I set the price at just under what I believe at that moment a person is willing to pay for them, and sell in various quantities (1, 5, 10, 20) to cater to different consumers "packaging" needs. And, you have unexpected events, like effects being nerfed, or this last Halloween "free costume" period destroying the market.
i suspect that a capped toon makes about 2g an hour and so whatever mats take a half hour to gather will converge to be worth about 1g.
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Professional Farmers - Xanthix - 12-06-2005
kandrathe,Dec 6 2005, 11:59 AM Wrote:After 60, there is some period of time when you "complete" your end game outfit, but the rate of change slows, and it will be more based on BOPS than purchased items. You no longer dump money into training, you have bought your epic mount, you farm all the rep you need, and at some point everything becomes excess.[right][snapback]96350[/snapback][/right]
Hmm, I have had a 60 for months and I have not yet "completed" my outfit, nor do I see me ever doing so! :) It's true a lot of what I crave is BoP gear, but I am also working on acquiring good BoE blue gear, fire resist gear, blue/purple crafted gear, several sets of librams, lots of high-end enchants, reputation with various factions (some of which I can buy), new rare recipes, and I have a whole new list of must-haves with each new patch!
I just wanted to throw this out there, that Blizz seems to be doing an okay job with adding money sinks to keep us 60's poor, but in a way that lets us continue to upgrade our characters' capabilities and fun-factor. If an excess of gold or stones of jordan starts to become a problem, I'm confident they will do what they can to fix the problems - they are handling WoW a lot better than D2, you must admit.
Professional Farmers - kandrathe - 12-06-2005
Xanthix,Dec 6 2005, 12:39 PM Wrote:...It's seems better designed for longevity, or at least a lifespan that allows for a 12 to 18 month development cycle before the universe becomes stale.
I'm confident they will do what they can to fix the problems - they are handling WoW a lot better than D2, you must admit.
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Consider how long it takes to cap a toon in D2, versus WOW (not power leveling, mind you). Then, consider what you need to do to "complete" your capped toon. Then, there is a "content" difference where the WOW character has available more "party designated" instances where they can acquire some of the best BOP items. If I recall correctly, most, if not all items in D2 items are transferable to others, which accelerates the stagnation. I suspect there is a correlation in the time that a WOW realm becomes stale to the amount of time it takes to cap and "complete" a toon.
However, in D2, you have the ladder resets that restart from ground zero and keep the realm fresh. It's been along time since I've played D2, but I imagine that the stale ladder, and non-ladder realms economies are distorted by farmers and cheaters in the same way they always were.
Professional Farmers - fractaled - 12-10-2005
Another article: on nytimes
edit: (as pointed out by kandrathe) i know html better than bracket-speak or whatever this is :)
Professional Farmers - kandrathe - 12-11-2005
That one didn't work, but getting rid of the extra http// did.
Better Link