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Want to try a great online web game... - Baylan - 04-16-2003

Hello!

I registered for a few judges, and put myself on a Diplom novice queue and my call has been answered! I will be receiving an email over the next day or two as to when the game has been created and the judges name. My real next question is... I have the Dip-Chief program, but as of yet I haven't figured out how to work it correctly. I can get it to load, and I've thrown in a starter or two to see how it looks, but I haven't been able to edit/change any of the maps. As I'd like to be able to create/look at my own maps instead of wondering if the Judge/GM will be putting one up, are there any basic tutorials for how to get started with the Dip-Chief tool?

Thanks for the help, and getting me interested in such a fascinating game.

Want to try a great online web game... - Skandranon - 04-16-2003

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the DipChief tool. My mapping software of choice is Realpolitik, found on the mapping software page as well. It's simple to learn and has an intuitive interface.

Want to try a great online web game... - Baylan - 04-16-2003

Thanks either way, if I can't figure it out by the time that the game begins I'll pick up Realpolitik and see if I like that better. Seems kind of like picking a chessboard... Need to shop around until you find the one that is just right.

Want to try a great online web game... - Baylan - 04-18-2003

Ah, the game has begun!

I managed to draw England, and within hours of the game beginning received press from France proposing we keep The Channel as a DMZ, at least for the time being and I agreed with him. I'm going to see what diplomatic strings I can put together, and hopefully the Anglo-French Alliance can be put together and succeed with some luck. I might just not get wiped off the board in the first 6 turns :-).

First moves are due by Wednesday... I'm currently planning the usual Northern Advance that I've seen England use in most cases with F Edi-Nwg, F Lon-Nth, and A Lvp-Yor. With this and seeing the French's first moves I can secure the Nwy SC and if I can convince my French friend Belgium as well, securing two builds and a foothold on the main portion of the Europe.

Want to try a great online web game... - Skandranon - 04-18-2003

Well, I'll just put in my two cents on standard English openings.

As you probably can tell, there are only really two English opening systems: Northern (F Edi-NWG, F Lon-NTS) and Southern (F Lon-ENG, F Edi-NTS). I've never seen much value in the Splits (F Edi-NWG, F Lon-ENG) or any others, especially the absurd joke opening the Yorkshire Pudding (F Edi-Yor, A Lvp-Yor, F Lon-Yor).

Where the opening systems are concerned, I always say the following.

The Northern system is the weaker of the two systems. England is better off opening south.

BUT: if France plays to the Channel, a failed Southern opening is worse than if England opened North and France got into the Channel.

Furthermore - if Russia plays the Octopus or any other kind of variation including A Mos-StP, England is better off opening North.

This is why I recommend the weaker Northern Opening, Yorkshire Variation, for most players, and why most players play it, because they can't be assured that France won't go into the Channel and that Russia won't go north. But if you can make sure those things won't happen, the French Attack is your best bet for a win.

Lastly - watch Liverpool. It is your soft underbelly. Nearly every time England dies it is by way of Liverpool and by means of France. DMZ of the Channel is generally good, but it's good for France as well.

Want to try a great online web game... - Baylan - 04-19-2003

Well, as of yet I've got Franced pegged as a backstabber, I've heard rumors that there is a German-Frank alliance brewing, while hearing from Germany that he believes the Frank is a bad person to be allied with, a backstabber of sorts. As such I'm leaning towards an Anglo-German alliance as of yet. (Btw, whats the traditional name for the German country? Example - Anglo for England, Ottoman for Turkey, Russo for Russia). He's also forseen me taking over Belgium as well as Holland, which would give me several builds in the early going and as I count it, six SC's by spring 1902. Russia is also likely to run an offensive against Germany, which permitting would give me an advantage in any kind of a Frank-Anglo conflict due to not having to worry about my rear flank. As of yet however, I haven't heard anything from the Austrian, Italian, or Turkish leaders.

As of now, I'm going to stick with my original moves though, F Edi-Nwg, F Lon-Nth, and A Lvp-Yor. My plans for the 1901F turn would be F Nwg-Nwy, F Nth C A Yor-Bel, A Yor-Bel I don't trust France keeping the Channel a DMZ, so I must keep that possability open. It also opens the door for me to I need to talk to Italy, if he could run an offensive on Mariesselies (poorly spelled, I know). I would be in great shape.

So anyway, how's everyone elses game going?

Want to try a great online web game... - Rhydderch Hael - 04-19-2003

Baylan,Apr 19 2003, 09:19 AM Wrote:(Btw, whats the traditional name for the German country? Example - Anglo for England, Ottoman for Turkey, Russo for Russia).
If you don't want to go for the native Deutsch, you could go about calling them the Teutons or Teutonic.

My personal addressments of each nation:

Kingdom of Great Britain (or England, or Britain)
Republic of France (or The Republic)
Consolidated Nation of Italy
Imperial German State
Empire of Russia (or the Czarists)
Ottoman Empire (or the Turks)
Combined States of Austria and Hungary (cram an 'Imperial' in there if you really need to get wordy...)

Want to try a great online web game... - Rhydderch Hael - 04-19-2003

I'm waiting for the Fall '04 results to come in, but this is what happened in Spring...

[Image: 1904April.jpg]
Turkey went Civil for the turn. Austria exploited it and blew the Turk force in Rumania away. Italy crapped out a bad set of orders that creates a half-Bosphorus, half Let-Me-Rust-Away-Until-Somebody-With-A-Bigger-Navy-Nails-Me situation.

And France gave up the Mid Atlantic to cover his north coasts directly. I can only guess at what's France's long-term goals. He can't do crap against Italy (no fleets in the Med). He appears to be coming to Germany's aid in getting the Austrian out of Munich, but his defense of the north against Britain has seriously cracked under the hammer.

I had three options against France: A> support, and possibly standoff, an attack on Brest, to either gain Brest or stave off a French attack on the Channel. As much as he may fear me, I fear that France may try a dislodge of the English Channel unit to accomplish two aims: secure the DMZ for himself, and disrupt any convoy action I may undertake against France or the Iberian peninsula. B> Hope France went defensive with his fleets and opt instead to gamble with a probing attack to either Iberian nation: does the French stay in Spain or move to Portugal? Does my guess win me a Build for next Spring? Or think long-term and land my army in Gascony, thus threatening Brest, Spain and Marseilles? Or C> Surprise everyone by bypassing France, convoying to North Africa, and make my break into the Med by nabbing Tunis?

I still think France is crafty enough to recognize a good defense in a strong offense. He's gonna go for the Channel. Hence, I focus my attention on Brest.

The orders submitted for Fall 1904:

F Eng - Bre
F MAt S F Eng - Bre

Two possibilities: France makes for the Channel with F Pic-Eng with Brest support. This in turn gives France the Channel, and I get Brest (and a Build) in turn. Losing the Channel is a small price given that I can build a unit in London to defend her, and with a Fleet heading into the North Sea, it is a small matter to evict the French from the Channel next go. Second possibility: France attacks with Brest, or goes defensive. Result is a standoff, my defense of the Channel is complete, and I have reinforcements en route for a second try.

F Hel - NtS
F Nor - Nwg
A Swe - Den
F Ska S A Swe - Den

A Wal - Yor

A not-too-subtle gesture of non-aggression to Germany, giving him the hint that he better focus south instead of killing himself on a pointless two-front war. The game's polarizing between Red and Blue, and Austria has more Armies than I have Fleets. I can conquer all I want on the northern shores of the continent, but without a break into the Med, I can't penetrate in depth through Europe. I have to get through France to do it, first. I can't afford to have Germany crumble under Austrian guns (I mean, c'mon. I did all the dirty work, and ol' Austria can best exploit the spoils). So, I use Germany as a dam against the Red tide while I loop in from the west.

Heck, given how neglected Moscow's going to be, I could probably sneak through and snag it. Convoy my Army sitting on the home island over to Norway, then St. Pete's. Get a Fleet in on tha Baltic, then sneak A Den - Liv and take Moscow.

Given the possibility that Germany and Turkey may have negotiated for Moscow already, I should have moved F Nor - Bar in anticipation of having to support my Army into St. Pete's to protect it. But I do need to get the wagons rolling west, hence the move to the Norwegian Sea.

Want to try a great online web game... - BanditAngel - 04-20-2003

And just when I think things are falling nicely in to place, Italy backstabs me, and blows his own attack.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~cbattey/diplomacy/

At first I was bewildered as to why my attack didn't succeed, until I noticed that little Italian fleet got stupid and attacked Greece. I think he was expecting me to move Greece in to Serbia - But by my understanding of the rules he would have just cancelled the attack, not actually taken Greece. At least this way I hold Greece agains't the fool, who has now shown his true colors.

Russia's failure to support his own attack on Galacia means that Austria is just as strong as before, thanks to a quite intelligent defence, the Italian backstab, the Russians lack of support, and Italy's interest in supporting France instead of his own attack.

*Sigh* - I hope for the best and get the worst while you expect the worst and get such nice results :)

What I want to know is what the heck that Russian fleet in Rumania was doing holding instead of supporting the attack! This isn't looking good for me at all, since Austria and Italy are most likely both my enemies now, and with moves like that I'm thinking Russia really might not be my friend in all of this...

And I really want to know what was going on with that Italian move on Greece, that just seems stupid - It signals VERY hostile intent, and it couldn't have succeeded. Maybe he just wants to keep me out of Austria?

Want to try a great online web game... - Rhydderch Hael - 04-20-2003

BanditAngel,Apr 20 2003, 02:17 AM Wrote:... Russia's failure to support his own attack on Galacia means that Austria is just as strong as before, thanks to a quite intelligent defence, the Italian backstab, the Russians lack of support, and Italy's interest in supporting France instead of his own attack.

*Sigh* - I hope for the best and get the worst while you expect the worst and get such nice results :)

What I want to know is what the heck that Russian fleet in Rumania was doing holding instead of supporting the attack! ...
Important operational note: a Fleet cannot support an attack into a landlocked province. A unit can only deliver attack support into a region that that unit itself could have entered on its own. Hence, an Army cannot support a Fleet moving into a sea region, and a Fleet cannot support an Army's drive inland.

The Russian Fleet in Rumania could not support an attack on Budapest nor Serbia. Not unless the battleships were hauled out of the water, mounted on wheels, and dragged across dry land to deliver their guns to the inland regions. ;)

Want to try a great online web game... - Skandranon - 04-20-2003

Rhydderch Hael,Apr 19 2003, 10:46 PM Wrote:I'm waiting for the Fall '04 results to come in, but this is what happened in Spring...
A solid set of moves. I've a flair for the dramatic, I would have convoyed to Gascony :)

Yeah, Austria's really turning up as the threat, with absolutely no threats on his side of the board. Russia's out, Turkey's incompetent and Italy's asleep at the switch. He'll have Sevastopol next turn at the very least. Italy would be best served stabbing Austria hard at this point, but he probably won't, and if Italy can be talked into convoying into Syria, Turkey will be roast in fairly short order.

Want to try a great online web game... - Skandranon - 04-20-2003

BanditAngel,Apr 20 2003, 10:17 AM Wrote:And I really want to know what was going on with that Italian move on Greece, that just seems stupid - It signals VERY hostile intent, and it couldn't have succeeded. Maybe he just wants to keep me out of Austria?
Actually, in my previous post I explained why he might order such a move.

The correct attack to go with F IOS-Gre would be:

ITALY: A Ven-Tri, A Trl S A Ven-Tri, A Vie S RUSSIAN A Gal-Bud
RUSSIA: A Gal-Bud

This way, Italy gets Tri, Russia gets Bud, and your support on Ser fails while your attack from Bul cuts Ser's support for either Tri or Bud, which allows the success of the Italian and Russian moves. If executed properly you would be dead.

As for the support, I'd just like to add to Rhydderch's explanation that coasts don't matter in terms of support. For example, a French F Mar could support F MAO-Spa(nc), even though Mar can't go to Spa(nc), only Spa(sc). Otherwise, units can only support attacks into provinces that they can enter: for example, an A Bre can't support an attack into ENG.

You might want to point that out to Austria, actually. I noticed he ordered F Tri S A Bud-Vie. Your GM is incorrect in labeling it "FAILS"; the correct terminology is "VOID" because it is an illegal move.

Want to try a great online web game... - BanditAngel - 04-21-2003

I had trouble figuring out the turns, so I'm not too suprised I missed that the Rum fleet couldn't have supported - Thanks for pointing that out. Anyways, I was saying that cutting my support was stupid more because he managed to butcher the rest of his orders and end up taking out absolutely none of Austria.

And Russia built an army in Sev - I'm assuming it plans on heading to Ukr, then to Gal, but it occurs to me that it could be convoyed to hit Bul, or moved to take Arm if Russia isn't my friend. I suppose there's no point really worrying about it right now though - trusting Russia has been paying off, and kept me in control of Greece.

Want to try a great online web game... - Rhydderch Hael - 04-22-2003

[Image: 1904October.jpg]

France gave an unclear order in stating A Pic-Bel, the GM initially voiding the order on the basis that the unit stated is actually a Fleet, not an Army. I've contested the decision on the basis that Fleet and Army identifiers in a set of orders are irrelevant and serve only as reminders, and the order should have carried.

The French player opted for a third choice that I did not take into account: he abandoned a supported defense of Brest and opted instead to stab east and nab Holland from an already too-much-distracted Germany. So, France loses a Home center but keeps his numbers static.

Austria, on the other hand, is blowing everyone away. In the most supreme act of stupidity thus recorded in this game of mysteries, Turkey's army in the Ukraine held place and did nothing to spare Stevastopol from Austrian conquest. Basic logic should have told the poor retarded bastard to move the only army he had not occupying a Supply Center to move the blasted thing into his exposed northern flank! Austria has 2 Bilds coming, a total of 9, and he's got crumbling or incompetent fodder to use as target practice.

Italy is taking second place to the "What were you thinking!?" department. He, at least, is following some reasonable and viable strategy. His trouble is that he's executing them two moves too late. Here, Slow and Steady do not win the race, because the rabbit's got fangs and the tortoise makes for a nice soup.

Austria's builds are forced: two Armies, raised in Vienna and Budapest. The Vienna one can't do a thing in the short term, but he can easily bolster Austria's northern front come Fall 1905. This spells the end for Warsaw or Munich in terms of German rule. Possibly even both. In any case, Germany's toast, and Austria's supplying the flame. And I'm in poor position to do anything to sway it.

I am, however, sending both armies east to cover my left flank. Hope willing, I can get to Moscow before anyone else brings their full attention (and the two units required to take it) to bear on the last remnant of the Czarist regime.

But most my wagons are rolling west. I'm breaking into the Med in Spring 1905. From there, a grab at Spain or Tunis to bolster my numbers for a second try at the West in 1906.

Want to try a great online web game... - Skandranon - 04-22-2003

Rhydderch Hael,Apr 22 2003, 03:50 AM Wrote:France gave an unclear order in stating A Pic-Bel, the GM initially voiding the order on the basis that the unit stated is actually a Fleet, not an Army. I've contested the decision on the basis that Fleet and Army identifiers in a set of orders are irrelevant and serve only as reminders, and the order should have carried.
Under the technical reading of the rules, the A and F markers aren't just reminders, they're necessary. Just like coast specification. But the reason they're necessary is due to the rule being designed for face to face play, so I suppose you have a case. When I GM games, I'm a total technical stickler, so I back your GM on this one :)

I don't know about that French stab. As part of a plan to secure a build and get a third fleet in the water to attack you, I suppose it's a good idea, but he's completely out of position. To do something like that he'd have to make sure Brest was clear, which he didn't do, and prevent you from taking it. Doing those things at the same time is hard with perfect position, never mind the one he happened to have. In any case, his stab weakens his buffer between him and Austria, and doesn't exactly give him a good position against you.

Italy: Gah! Too late, and the wrong moves. Instead of convoying an army, he shuffles his fleets, which just guarantees that he won't get any Turkish centres. He'll have Smyrna for all of one season before Austria sinks the knife in.

Looks like Austria's going to run away with it. Turkey had the game, Turkey could have won it way back when Russia dropped out, but he threw it all away. Sigh. You only have one hope of influencing the situation now, and it's not with units. You need to convince Turkey and Italy to ally, which isn't very easy. The two of them could bottle up Austria for at least a year. Maybe two.

Hm. If you're running all out for the Med, you're playing F MAO-WES, which is good, but as for the rest of your moves...France will probably support himself into Brest, so you can move out to MAO and bring a built fleet in London into the Channel. You and Germany can probably figure out a way to keep France at six. Going for Tunis, I think, isn't a very good idea since that will drive Italy even further into Austria's camp. Then again, he seems to be all the way in Austria's pocket already.

Well, at the very least, if you can put a fleet into the Baltic you should be able to slam the line closed. You can't make Austria lose, but if you can get France and Germany on board you can make sure Austria doesn't win.

Want to try a great online web game... - Rhydderch Hael - 04-22-2003

Page 4 of 2000A says that, since only one unit can occupy a province at any one time, there should be no confusion as to what type of unit is being moved. I think it was a statement directed at GMs, not to players. A GM should not be confused by an order that gives an erroneous unit designation, since the rule is also stated that the A or F tags, if missing, should not invalidate the order. By the logic of play, the GM should very well know what kind of unit is in play in a particular region at any given time, and the order should be void only if the order itself is physically impossible for that unit type.

F Brest is already on the way out. Tunis is a fallback plan if there's no hope of me securing Spain or whatnot.

The Italian--he's hard to gauge. His last three orders concerning his armies have been a supported Hold. Even though, in the last round, he had only one enemy unit threatening Venice, he still took a supported Hold! Getting an Italian army whose so set in concrete to get moving will be a challenge. He's too scared to do nothing else but defend.

F Skag is already prepped for the Baltic. A York is heading to Scandinavia and St. Pete's, and I'm hoping a Moscow play will be able to secure my east front.

Want to try a great online web game... - Skandranon - 04-22-2003

Rhydderch Hael,Apr 22 2003, 01:10 PM Wrote:Page 4 of 2000A says that, since only one unit can occupy a province at any one time, there should be no confusion as to what type of unit is being moved. I think it was a statement directed at GMs, not to players. A GM should not be confused by an order that gives an erroneous unit designation, since the rule is also stated that the A or F tags, if missing, should not invalidate the order. By the logic of play, the GM should very well know what kind of unit is in play in a particular region at any given time, and the order should be void only if the order itself is physically impossible for that unit type.
Under the ruleset I played under most, the A and F indicators were mandatory. The reasoning, as I said, was for face-to-face games. Should the board get kicked or knocked over, the last turn's orders should always suffice to rebuild the position. As I also said, this is an online game, so since there's no chance of a sneeze or whatever, you have a case.

Italy, I'm afraid, may be too petrified with fear to move. It's a common newbie reaction, to ally oneself with a large neighbour. New players are also most likely to respond to threats - "Help me, or I'll kill you." Naturally, once they've finished helping their "ally" grow to 8 or 9 centres, they get stabbed, but claim that they only survived as long as they did because they helped, oblivious to the fact that their own timid posture created the conditions for their own demise. Lean as hard as you can on him - not like there's much to lose.

Want to try a great online web game... - Rhydderch Hael - 04-24-2003

Sitrep: War's over. GM terminated the game. Scheduling. :angry:

Want to try a great online web game... - BanditAngel - 04-24-2003

Gah, can't you get a new GM? That seriously sucks...

Want to try a great online web game... - Rhydderch Hael - 04-24-2003

I offered to be the GM of the next game.

The Turkish player in my session dropped out, prompting termination. Heck, that would have given Austria a Supply Center buffet.