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I'm speechless. - Guest - 07-08-2003
"Enough. "
Odd statement on reviving a thread that has been dead for 2 days.
I'm speechless. - Vandiablo - 07-08-2003
Wapptor,Jul 6 2003, 04:35 AM Wrote:The whole idea is very similar to the idea of a crew upon for example a ship. No one man can sail a 100 ft boat by himself, however with an obedient crew he can. The idea is that only one person may think and that the others just work as sort of "second arms" for him. The people need to UNDERSTAND what they are doing but not think about it. If they were the good thinkers they would likely be captains. One man thinks and controls the boat, everyone else just works. They need to be obedient and capable, nothing more, nothing less.I think Engineer Scott would disagree.
I'm speechless. - IHateClowns. - 07-08-2003
I think the real sad part about this, is that people don't have the time or decency to raise their own children anymore.
Quote:Huh? Like dragging a kid off to a foreign island and subjecting him/her to brainwashing and physical torture?
16 year old kids join the forces every day, you sign a piece of paper that basicly says "For the next 10 years, you are property of (in my case) the royal navy" so whats the difference?A mate of mine is swedish, he also joined up at a very young age.In sweden its a court marshall offense to get frostbite.That just shows you how much your ass belongs to them.
I'm speechless. - Occhidiangela - 07-08-2003
I dont read the forums every day. Nor do I read every thread every day. When I get to a post, and choose to reply, I reply.
This is not a chat room, right? :D
I'm speechless. - Occhidiangela - 07-08-2003
I have gaps in my knowledge here.
Are you from the UK? Does the UK accept 16 year old volunteers with parental permisison? In US, I think 17 is the waiverable limit.
Property of the RN? Only if you take Samuel Johnson's view of being on a ship at sea:
"It is being in prison with the prospect of drowning thrown in." :D
However, the sailor is free to come and go, to a certain extent, in port and on liberty. Saiors also make money, can buy a car, get annual adventurous training, etc.
Sure, the military life is somewhat constrained, such as what you have to wear and being accountable to someone else, and having to follow a great number of rules, but I'd suggest that the modern sailor is a bit better off than the kids on that island, by about two orders of magnitude.
Among other things, you can go out and get pissed (drunk) now and again (more than one party per year) and you of course have some leave allowed each year to go visit the folks.
The other twist is that for parents permitting their 16 year old son to join the Fleet, I suspect that their operating emotion is more a one of pride than one of desparation, but that may not always be the case.
Might I ask: what was the judge threatening you with when you signed on? :) one of the best sailors who I ever served with, back in about 1986, enlisted to avoid going to jail on a drunk and disorderly charge. He was a superb sailor, a sharp guy, and he went back to college when his 5 years were up.
I'm speechless. - IHateClowns. - 07-09-2003
You can apply at 15year/9months old, but the minimal age to actually join now is 16.(and 17 for officers i think)
but honestly, i still dont see the problem with this island institution, for a parent to spend 40k a year there mut be something pretty wrong with their child.. call it brainwashing if you want, but 99% are probably severe cases, and this is most likely seen as a last resort.. And it isn't the Hitlerjugend, thats for sure.
I'm speechless. - Haider - 07-09-2003
This was my experience in boot camp too. The whole team aspect came later. Boot camp was about the basics (weapons, marching, living in the field etc) and to obey regardless what. But since it wasn't the US military the methods may differ.
I'm speechless. - Occhidiangela - 07-09-2003
In formation? A simple exercise in teamwork.
I'm speechless. - Wapptor - 07-10-2003
I think this explains everything, its a long read but worth it if you're still interested in the issue:
http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/wwasp/kravig/
God, some people just need to be shot.
-Wapptor
I'm speechless. - Occhidiangela - 07-10-2003
A court order for a year's term, paid by the young man's parents, rather than the Commonwealth hosting the young man for two years at taxpayer expense, the charge being felonious aggrivated assault. This was a plea bargain. Aggrivated assault versus his . . . go figure . . . step father.
Somehow, as disgusted as the lack of professionalism of the staff makes me, in re negligence to sanitation, and as deplorable as that entire situation is from a human perspective, I am unable find any sympathy for the young man on the stand.
He did one year rather than two for aggrivated assault. No criminal record, thanks to a Court Order. <== that part strikes me as a crack in the system, in that Court Orders can substitute a sentence of Transportation (gee, did the young man have to wear a Black Velvet Band?) at the financial behest of the legal guardians, rather than procede within the constraints of the Juvenile system of the Commonwealth.
I wonder at how many of the residents of Stalag WWASP are also substituting hard time for hard time?
Where are Woodward and Bernstein when you need them?
I'm speechless. - Dani - 07-13-2003
Gah. These institutions shopuld be reported to the court of human rights.
Free the kids. Bomb the camps. Execute the owners. Send the workers to Guantanamo for 5 years; and sentence the parents top no les than 10 years of jail without parole for failure in parenting and for gross child abuse.
While someone said thee can't be compared to concentration camps, I say they really can. death camps no, but concentration camps as used by various nations, including several western countries during the previous century and this one.
I don't think the prison camps on Guantanamo bay are lawful by democratic western standards; and there the prisoners allegedly actually conspired to kill thousands. Troubled teens in re-education. Orwell was right...I wonder if they're asked the finger question. :P
I'm speechless. - Occhidiangela - 07-14-2003
The government of Jamaica, who allows these "camps" to operate on their sovereign soil.
As to the parents, they will be punished every day for the rest of their lives by that fact that their children have, by their actions, become estranged from them, won't love them, and may well hate them until their dying breath.
I'd say the punishment fits the crime.
As to the WWASP camps on US Soil, to say that each States' Justice department and Better Business Bureau, as well as social services, should investigate them thoroughly is an understatement.