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+--- Thread: End of Ladder Season (/thread-8341.html)
End of Ladder Season - Nicator - 07-02-2004
Quote:Okay, it's a competition then. A competition that measures what, though?Experience points earned by defeating monsters in game.
Quote:Not skill. When I think of the most skillful players I know, I realize they won't ever be on the ladder. What then? Mostly hours of playtime. Luck with item drops. And a willingness to improve gear by paying cash or other means.Skill isn't measured if cheating is allowed. Using more time is allowed, magic find is allowed... buying on ebay... well... allowed I think although somewhat cheap IMHO.
In any competition time is required, and a willingness to prevail amongst others. I can't see how anyone can succeed, or expect any reward, in a contest if he has no time to compete. I agree there are several skillful gamers that just don't compete, but for those that choose to the rules should be the same; in our case, those rules known as legit gaming.
Quote:Given the nature of the game (and the preferred fan base), you know what to expect in the ladder competition. Just like someone who gets into competitive body building has to expect to come up against steroids, and someone who wants to make it in Hollywood has to expect to compromise whatever morals they have. It's up to you if you want to play that game.Aye, we all know what to expect but it doesn't mean we have to accept it. There are cheaters in every area where a competition takes place but, at least, in most of them when they're caught they're severely penalized. About Hollywood, well, I have no personal experience as to adventure an opinion but, that's more a career than a competition, isn't it?
Now, leaving ethics and phylosophy apart and getting back into the thread, I see that cheaters need some time to make their efforts noticeable in D2's economy and party gaming. The longer the season the better they're rewarded. Making it last for 2 or 3 months will reduce their farming and merchandizing time.
Also, longer seasons benefit items above skillfulness. Lets take an extreme example: An Ironman like contest will reward those that achieve the goals in less time but, if no time limit, then it's better to farm a boss, get better/uber items, and have a nice time. Shorter times just make a gamble to go magic finding because the season may be over by the time the player gets the uber items he must have to make his char defeat the game.
Now, even those that never tried, or wanted, to achieve a top standing in the Ladder agree that the better weeks were the first ones. Almost all had lousy items and had to rely on their skills and party gaming to advance. It was cool to be in a hell party with top 100s and see someone writting: "Ok guys, at the count of 3, we enter the Throne, and gl 2 yall... 1... 2... 3 go!!". The game was fun :)
End of Ladder Season - Ferengi - 07-08-2004
Valamyr,Jun 28 2004, 03:57 AM Wrote:So yes, to get the best stuff, they intend us to start fresh every few months. Not a bad thing i think, itll keep the game fresh.The same game over and over?? What's the point of a reset (given the general lack of "position' mentioned here) then? Unless something new is added, then a reset will only annoy me. I need to start all over just to collect enough items for char experimentation. On the other hand, Blizzard has never made a rational move yet...
Actually, come to think about it, this could be the "sweeper" that moves us all into the next game.
End of Ladder Season - gekko - 07-08-2004
Ferengi,Jul 7 2004, 09:28 PM Wrote:The same game over and over?? What's the point of a reset (given the general lack of "position' mentioned here) then? Unless something new is added, then a reset will only annoy me. I need to start all over just to collect enough items for char experimentation. On the other hand, Blizzard has never made a rational move yet...What's the point of a ladder if there aren't any resets? If the ladder lasts for 6+ months, and most players build up mf characters (and, let's face it, get those bots going), there's no realistic difference between ladder and non-ladder. Ladder only works if the economy is "fresh" -- and such a condition requires at least infrequent resets.
gekko
End of Ladder Season - devzero - 07-08-2004
Quote:I need to start all over just to collect enough items for char experimentation. On the other hand, Blizzard has never made a rational move yet...
Ladder is not meant for character experimentation (from Blizzards side). Ladder is meant as a way to compete. The competition is to get as high a char as possible in as short a time as possible. The ladder / non ladder realms is a way to keep the ladder as cheat free as possible. Unfortantly there is a huge comunity out there, dedicated to cheating on the realms (ladder or non). They usualy succed in one way or other :(
nwy, just my 2 cents (or "10 øre" cudos to anyone recognizing the curency)
End of Ladder Season - Ferengi - 07-08-2004
Hmm, "position" means concerned about ladder climbing. Most lurkers remember the first ladder, which went on forever... Newer players apparently are unaware of the classic ladder before expansion.
And a reminder, check the AS for all those little notes of (LADDER ONLY). devzero apparently thinks that a ladder reset stops cheating......
End of Ladder Season - Assur - 07-08-2004
A ladder reset isn't going to stop cheating, but it will take some time for cheats to be worked out, So for the first few weeks we should be spared people who ask wether it is better to use dual "frenzy" or BotD :angry:
End of Ladder Season - Munkay - 07-08-2004
Quote:Hmm, "position" means concerned about ladder climbing. Most lurkers remember the first ladder, which went on forever... Newer players apparently are unaware of the classic ladder before expansion.
By first ladder are you refering to D2C up until Dec 02? If that is what you mean, there is a reason it went on forever, it was nearly impossible to get to 99 in D2 classic. But this is not the case in expansion, so resets of the ladder make the most sense, in order to keep the ladder as something 'attainable' to the driven. Even in D2 classic they did a ladder reset, anyone remember Jan 03? (Or was it 02?) That was ridiculous amounts of fun.
Quote: devzero apparently thinks that a ladder reset stops cheating......
Hmm? Is this infered from his last post? If you are attaining your information from that source, then I must disagree. I see devzero's reply as telling the simple truth that 'cheating is bound to happen no matter what.'
As far as my two cents on the subject, I like the idea of the new ladder. That isn't to say there aren't major flaws. But overall cheating is going to occur. This doesn't mean I condone throwing up our hands in the air and going 'oh well,' nor does it mean I condone a which hunt attitude towards condeming blizzard for the cheating that has occured. For a game that's been out for over 3 years now, I'm surprised at how legit this game continues to be. Three years is a long time for hackers to get their grubby little hands on the game and devise schemes to pass on to cheating groups. The ladder reset isn't perfect, but it is a breath of fresh air. I think people need to focus on that pro, rather than being cynical about the ever present 'cheaters.'
Eh,
-Munk
Edit: I keep screwing up posts where I double quote. Doh!
End of Ladder Season - Jugalator - 07-09-2004
Quote:What's the point of playing, when your characters will be 'debunked' within a few months? I want to play ladder, but if that means having to start from scratchevery other monthIt's not even close to being reset every other month.
It was pretty hard to get to level 99 in Season 1, and we had almost a dozen of them in the end. I think the duration was OK. You have to keep in mind that leaving the ladder running until it's full of 99's like in pre-1.10 isn't a good alternative either.
Anyway, what annoys me are two things:
1. The rune words. We had a bunch of "uber words" in 1.10 already, and I really hope these won't also assume Gul's grow on trees. Why not try adding/fixing something that hasn't been touched lately? Like crafting recipes? Or spend time fixing the most severely unbalanced aspects in the 1.10 items?
2. The WOW reward to maphackers and botters. Or did Blizzard honestly expect a normal player to be more efficient than those? :rolleyes:
End of Ladder Season - Guest - 07-09-2004
Quote:. The WOW reward to maphackers and botters. Or did Blizzard honestly expect a normal player to be more efficient than those?
What does WoW do to stop hax0rz and botters?
End of Ladder Season - NuurAbSaal - 07-09-2004
no thanks
End of Ladder Season - devzero - 07-09-2004
Quote:2. The WOW reward to maphackers and botters. Or did Blizzard honestly expect a normal player to be more efficient than those?
Actually i think you are severely mistaken if you think the ladder contest is gone be won by bot's. And maphack sure as **** wont make the diffrence. A dedicated team of players, playing 24/7 on the other hand will do the trick. 8 players with good skills will have absolutely no problems getting to baal runs hell in no time. After that 2 dedicated teleport sorcs and a baba with BO will make sure the time to get down to throne room is ekstremly fast. MH users will perhaps save 1 - 10 sekonds, but that wont matter in the end. The other 5 players for killing speed. One or two of those should be dedicted to mf'ing baal. This way you get uber items while the sorcs tele down to throne room in next game.
I have no idea how long lvl 99 will take using this method, but my guess is not many days. Perhaps even less than 36 hours.
No bot is gona beat human input when its this short a time span. (unless getting to lvl 99 will take more than a few days.)