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Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - whyBish - 12-02-2005

Thecla,Nov 30 2005, 06:29 PM Wrote:the idyllic Kiwis[right][snapback]95994[/snapback][/right]

Another good readon for Doc to come live over here, as well as:
Our most respected person in the country has dreads. Tana Umaga
Our most famous celebrity owns no shoes or ties.Well, not quite
</plug>

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - Occhidiangela - 12-02-2005

KiloVictor,Nov 30 2005, 04:53 PM Wrote:Minor nit: This is AFAIK the first time in the Canadian parliamentary system that an explicit vote of non-confidence has been held.  ==And further pointed note on  topic at hand==.
1. Thanks for describing the nuances and subtleties of your process, I hope all the 'Mericans benefitted from your excellent explanation as much as I did.

2. Nice to see someone adopting their handle from two classes of Soviet/Russian submarines. :D

Quote:This is different because the Opposition is basically making a naked play for power. And the stakes this time are high -  this will be the end of the line for one or more of the party leaders. =snip=  Traditionally, any leader that loses two elections from the Opposition side of the House is done.

What the Conservatives hope to do is upset the Liberals and form the government.  ==snip==  The risk for the Conservatives is high, and the benefit they get by forcing the election now is minimal, since the government had already pledged to call an election around the end of February with a vote around the end of March or mid-April.  So for the sake of pushing the vote up by three months, they've taken the risk of looking like their ambition for power trumped common sense (as Mr. Martin put it in the opening salvo of the campaign).

I'm frankly flabbergasted that the people running the party would take that risk for what looks like a marginal benefit. It will be a very interesting election.
~Kv [right][snapback]96040[/snapback][/right]

Given the amount of money over what appears to be an 8 year period, I draw the conclusion that, as careless as some members of Mr Chretien's group apparently were, this issue is being overblown in magnitude by the Conseratives.

I roughed out that the program was on the order of 300 million Canadian over 6-8 years, and I guestimated out the bribes and over charging et cetera between 10 and 20 million Canadian. It's not how much went astray, it's how it went astray. The raw magnitude is, in budgetary terms, peanuts.

I wonder if the Conservatives are not cocking their pistols for a musket ball to the boot in a few weeks. That's what happened in the Lower 48 over a few blow jobs, is is, a boob grab, and a state employee staring at the Clinton Obelisk at rest. *shrugs*

Looks entertaining, but not a lot of value added for the good citizens of The Great White North.

Occhi

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - SwissMercenary - 12-03-2005

What's so unfortunate for the Conservatives about their promiced tax cut (And I'd imagine any other issue where they differ with the other parties on), can most likely be summed up in 2 reasons.

A) They will not form a majority government
B) All the other parties are throughly opposed on that issue.

End result? Unless they start funneling dough into Quebec (Effectively, buying the Parti Quebecois votes they need to pass a budget), they're just going to topple on the next non-confidence vote, with the Liberals and NDP opposed to anything Conservative by default (Let's put aside the part where the Conservatives are starting to look a lot like the Liberals)...

Which... Will just mean we'll have... Another election. Awesome, eh?

At this point in time, the only coalition I'd 'welcome' would be a Liberal/NDP one - provided the NDP stop rocking the boat. Which may well happen if the Liberals come out with more votes after this coming election. PQ + Conservatives won't last.

I'm hoping for either that, or a majority government from either the Liberals or Conservatives (Provided Harper keeps up the trend of blurring the party agenda lines).

Just some 25 cents from a upper-middle class University kid.

In regards to the sponsorship scandal:

I see it as a drop in the bucket. Would obviously love to see those responsible get roasted over it, but that's about it.

PS - Ashock, I'm kindly suggesting that you should be a bit less of a loose cannon with that anti-commie sentiment. If you just have to give flak, send it in direction of the NDP.

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - Chaerophon - 12-03-2005

Quote:PS - Ashock, I'm kindly suggesting that you should be a bit less of a loose cannon with that anti-commie sentiment. If you just have to give flak, send it in direction of the NDP.
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Who did, I might add, abandon their overtly 'evolutionary socialist' roots LONG ago, and are far from being 'commies' nowadays. Left-of-center social democrats are not all, by definition, commies.

Earth to Ashock: a majority of the Canadian public favours universal, public medical care, semi-strict gun control, and *gasp* the legalization of marijuana. Oh yeah, and a large majority are happy that we stayed out of Iraq. The Conservatives are opposed to all but universal medical care, and their policies on health care are not beyond suspicion. It ain't gonna happen.

The post-Reform era Conservatives will never hold a majority government in Canada (not in the next 10-15 years, anyways, barring some far more catastrophic scandal), and even if they manage to pull out a minority in the next election, a Liberal-NDP coalition will likely exceed their numbers. Although the BQ is buddy-buddy with the Conservatives at present, they are no party's ally, and I strongly suspect that they really would prefer Liberal policy to that of the populist Albertan variety. Regardless, bringing down governments is good press for the BQ, I'm sure that they'll be happy to oblige somewhere down the road.

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - SwissMercenary - 12-03-2005

Chaerophon,Dec 3 2005, 08:19 AM Wrote:Who did, I might add, abandon their overtly 'evolutionary socialist' roots LONG ago, and are far from being 'commies' nowadays.&nbsp; Left-of-center social democrats are not all, by definition, commies.&nbsp;

I must admit I was overly harsh there. Just that I start getting a tad annoyed whenever I think of how they'd love to pour the national budget into the botomless barrel that is healthcare.

Blindly throwing money at the problem, and pretending that'll fix it hasn't gotten anyone all too far, that's for sure.

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - Occhidiangela - 12-03-2005

Chaerophon,Dec 3 2005, 02:19 AM Wrote:Earth to Ashock: a majority of the Canadian public favours universal, public medical care, semi-strict gun control, and *gasp* the legalization of marijuana.&nbsp; Oh yeah, and a large majority are happy that we stayed out of Iraq.&nbsp; The Conservatives are opposed to all but universal medical care, and their policies on health care are not beyond suspicion.&nbsp; It ain't gonna happen.

[right][snapback]96193[/snapback][/right]

So long as the breath test analogue is available for THC in the driving arena, legalizing dope is a fine idea. I don't give a hoot how you alter your reality, just don't drive when you do.

Stoned, tripping, on E, drunk, leave reality as you see fit. Just don't "leave" and drive.

PS: Canada will tax dope at a higher rate than the US, for all the usual reasons, if both legalize it. :w00t:

Occhi

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - ShadowHM - 12-04-2005

Occhidiangela,Dec 3 2005, 04:49 PM Wrote:PS:&nbsp; Canada will tax dope at a higher rate than the US, for all the usual reasons, if both legalize it.&nbsp; :w00t:

Occhi
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And in both cases, it will still be cheaper than current prices. :w00t:

(Except for those who grow their own, of course, but that will be about the same proportion of the users as the proportion of alcohol users who make their own wine/beer, methinks.)

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - Doc - 12-04-2005

Pathetic.

Not one Canadian has stepped up to the plate to explain why it's costing me 40 bucks to get a gallon of Canadian maple syrup.

I want some answers damnit. :angry:

Dubbya is awfully dumb. Maybe if we make maple trees look like oil rigs somehow... Er, wait, we don't want you knowing our plans.














:P

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - Swiss Mercenary - 12-04-2005

Doc,Dec 4 2005, 04:04 AM Wrote:Pathetic.

Not one Canadian has stepped up to the plate to explain why it's costing me 40 bucks to get a gallon of Canadian maple syrup.

Consider it the start of your compensation for the money the lot of you owe us for those bloody lumber tarrifs, eh?

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - Doc - 12-04-2005

Swiss Mercenary,Dec 3 2005, 11:39 PM Wrote:Consider it the start of your compensation for the money the lot of you owe us for those bloody lumber tarrifs, eh?
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[Image: _463071_lumberjack.jpg]

Lumber tarrifs? What? Eh?

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - SwissMercenary - 12-04-2005

Doc,Dec 4 2005, 05:06 AM Wrote:[Image: _463071_lumberjack.jpg]

Lumber tarrifs? What? Eh?
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These lumber tarrifs.

You guys better fork over the cash quickly, or pray for an overwhelming Liberal victory - I doubt the Conservatives will be all too interested in "negotiation." With your military already overstretched in Iraq, it will surely be a simple matter for us to launch a full-scale invasion - one that you will be powerless to resist. Once the border states are occupied (You guys can keep Jesusland), we will set about winning the hearts and minds of the People by turning up the luxury slider, and dopeing them into submission... Bwahahaha... :shuriken:

I just gave away our master plan, didn't I? :wacko:


Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - ShadowHM - 12-04-2005

Doc,Dec 3 2005, 11:04 PM Wrote:Not one Canadian has stepped up to the plate to explain why it's costing me 40 bucks to get a gallon of Canadian maple syrup.

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But Doc...


It costs me darn near the same amount. :( And we even know the guy who we buy it from. (i.e. Our maple syrup is not store-bought.) It is a tedious, timeconsuming task to make that liquid gold. It is cold, damp and miserable work. If he is willing to do all that labour, I am willing to pay the man a reasonable wage for doing it.

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - Doc - 12-04-2005

Outsource all syrup labour to prisons. Convicts work for pennies.

Presto, problem solved. Cheap maple syrup.

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - ShadowHM - 12-04-2005

Doc,Dec 4 2005, 09:53 AM Wrote:Outsource all syrup labour to prisons. Convicts work for pennies.

Presto, problem solved. Cheap maple syrup.
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:blink: You would trust convicts with Liquid Gold™ manufacture? There are sooo many ways you can completely screw up the process. Not to mention the cost of paying the supervisors to make sure they don't do just that.

This is a job for highly skilled labour.

You can have the convict-made syrup. :P Go ahead. Buy it for less. And you will get what you pay for. :o

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - Doc - 12-04-2005

ShadowHM,Dec 4 2005, 11:00 AM Wrote::blink:&nbsp; &nbsp; You would trust convicts with Liquid Gold™ manufacture?&nbsp; There are sooo many ways you can completely screw up the process.&nbsp; Not to mention the cost of paying the supervisors to make sure they don't do just that.

This is a job for highly skilled labour.&nbsp;

You can have the convict-made syrup.&nbsp; :P&nbsp; Go ahead.&nbsp; Buy it for less.&nbsp; And you will get what you pay for.&nbsp; :o
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Good point. Sigh.

Grade B organic maple syrup is like... Well, the best stuff on earth. It's all ooey gooey and there are these little crunchy sugar crystal things. Or maybe they are bugs. Who cares.

Liquid smack.

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - Ashock - 12-05-2005

SwissMercenary,Dec 2 2005, 09:26 PM Wrote:PS - Ashock, I'm kindly suggesting that you should be a bit less of a loose cannon with that anti-commie sentiment. If you just have to give flak, send it in direction of the NDP.
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Hmm, why?


-A

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - SwissMercenary - 12-05-2005

Ashock,Dec 5 2005, 06:22 AM Wrote:Hmm, why?
-A
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Because I don't think there's a need to derail every political thread into you sending a slugfest at the hard left, especially when it is quite irrelevant to the discussion.

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - Ashock - 12-05-2005

SwissMercenary,Dec 5 2005, 03:39 AM Wrote:Because I don't think there's a need to derail every political thread into you sending a slugfest at the hard left, especially when it is quite irrelevant to the discussion.
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I happen to think that that the ultra-left is very similar to communism, definately in many aspects. Therefore it is quite relevant to me.


-A

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - SwissMercenary - 12-05-2005

Ashock,Dec 5 2005, 05:11 PM Wrote:I happen to think that that the ultra-left is very similar to communism, definately in many aspects. Therefore it is quite relevant to me.
-A
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That's nice. If there's a poster on this board who isn't aware of that by now, I'm willing to eat my right toe.

I don't think we need constant reminders of it, much like I'm not constantly trying to tell people that "drugs are bad, mmkay."

Canadian government toppled by non-confidence vote - Doc - 12-05-2005

SwissMercenary,Dec 5 2005, 12:50 PM Wrote:That's nice. If there's a poster on this board who isn't aware of that by now, I'm willing to eat my right toe.

I don't think we need constant reminders of it, much like I'm not constantly trying to tell people that "drugs are bad, mmkay."
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But... Drugs are bad mmmkay?!