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+--- Thread: New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! (/thread-4492.html)
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Kevin - 04-20-2006
JustAGuy,Apr 19 2006, 08:24 PM Wrote:You don't lose all aggro, your aggro gets reduced. The extra rage from extra hits helps maintain aggro and then recover aggro. Against Broodlord, all tanks will have to tank him sooner or later, but Windfury just means the MT will be there longer. As for getting WTFCRITPWNOHGOD'd from his Mortal Strike, that's a matter for healers. Thankfully for us, our MT has around 9k hp minimum when we do Broodlord (spirit of Zanza, Flask and standard buffs). Broodlord really is a pushover these days.
Semantics. If you fall to second you still lost aggro. I've tanked broodlord with my warrior but I'm alliance. It was a serious quesiton. I debate the extra rage issue because if I've got a boss mobs attention even prot spec with high avoidance and lower damage I'm still pretty much able to constantly sunder, revenge and heroic strike. Well at least 2 of the 3 (Revenge and sunder getting priority) and you throw the HS in when you get the chance. Well when I was full prot spec it would usually be a shield slam not HS, unless I really wanted to dump rage fast, then I would use both.
I know that horde tanks do get buffs to generate aggro faster, which is another reason why salvation wasn't as big a deal as many made it out to be, but I just wonder if there is a break point where the 4% extra crit which gets you more aggro though not as much, with the 4% extra dodge to lower the healing requirements, is a better deal.
Quote:It does matter. What I was getting at was that it might not matter much, depending on the makeup of the group. The group where it is MOST important is the MT group, so much more important that, in comparison to any other group, the shaman/paladin interaction is not a big deal anywhere else.
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Again I'm not sure about that. If tranquil air and salvation stacked for instance in a DPS group that is also, as I pointed out earlier already getting something like 250 more AP and 1% crit more than they could have before the shaman and paladin joined forces, and then you can dropp the aggro that creates by 50% instead of just 20 or 30, that is a big big deal.
I'm not denying that the biggest balance change would likely be the MT group, but you still could have massive changes (the paladin mana regen + mana tides could mean that you could afford to have less healers and more DPS classes on a run, etc).
Or consider that you could have warlocks with insane mana regen and 50% aggro reduction where before it was just good mana regen and 30% aggro reduction. So even if you don't buff the MT you could potentially up the DPS by 300-500 just from buffing that one group.
Any of those changes could "break" the game or help trivialize an encounter even more.
ZG where having poison cleansing totems is just crazy helpful (so much better than what alliance has to deal with for cleansing) You put a paladin in there now and you don't have to make a choice about FR or poison cleansing totem anymore, the paladin can put that aura up the shaman can cover the cleansing with the totem and now both of them instead of just one of them is healing (paladins can't heal while cleansing, shaman always could). You can still have that cleansing happening with the paladins passive mana regen. No need to break the cleanse for a mana tide anymore.
Simple quick off the top of my head.
I do agree that that MT group interactions are probably the most drastic but I'm nto sure they are that far ahead of what can happen with other groups affecting the raid.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Raven Vale - 04-20-2006
Pesmerga,Apr 18 2006, 06:19 PM Wrote:My hope (in order): Pandaren, Worgen, Furlbogs
My theory (in order): Furlbogs, Dranaei, Worgen, Pandaren
I'd through in reasons, but I'm lazy. Pandas are just cool.
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Thety have already stated Panderans will not be a playable race . The Chinese would not like their beloved panda in any form being killed on the battlefield .
And if each faction got a Paladin and a Shaman , what would be the point of even bothering to log on , lets just make all the classes exactly the same then there would be no arguements of who has the biggest "weapon" .
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Arnulf - 04-20-2006
Dragonkin.
;)
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - lemekim - 04-20-2006
Raven Vale,Apr 20 2006, 08:47 AM Wrote:Thety have already stated Panderans will not be a playable race . The Chinese would not like their beloved panda in any form being killed on the battlefield .
And if each faction got a Paladin and a Shaman , what would be the point of even bothering to log on , lets just make all the classes exactly the same then there would be no arguements of who has the biggest "weapon" .
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I don't remember any official comments against Pandaren - it was just a persistent rumor as far as I know. Hell, why don't you fire up a copy of Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne and start a killing spree of the Pandaren hero in there - ability to kill him in that game didn't seem to stop Blizzard from shipping WC3: TFT to China, did it?
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Pesmerga - 04-20-2006
lemekim,Apr 20 2006, 10:05 AM Wrote:I don't remember any official comments against Pandaren - it was just a persistent rumor as far as I know. Hell, why don't you fire up a copy of Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne and start a killing spree of the Pandaren hero in there - ability to kill him in that game didn't seem to stop Blizzard from shipping WC3: TFT to China, did it?
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Correct, there have been no official comments about it not being Pandaren. Some writer added that "it wont be Pandaren" to his interview with Tigole, but that was just his opinion... ::shrugs::
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Derek - 04-20-2006
My personal theory is the Furbolg. The evidence in favor is:
+ They're traditional night elf allies
+ There's (barely) room for a starting area adjacent to Darkshore, especially if much of it is underground like Timbermaw Hold, and such an area would be in Furbolg territory.
+ They fit the "not pretty" criterion
+ The existing Furbolg faction was renamed in 1.9 as if to make room for a second one.
Points against are:
- No overt Outlands connection I know of, though I can certainly imagine that Illidan annoyed them at some point.
- Shamans again. Could be weaseled around with an excuse like "this particular group of furbolg abandoned shamanism to avoid the furbolg corruption problem".
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Raven Vale - 04-20-2006
A Chris Metzen quote
"When we finally reveal the alliance race, it's gonna blow your mind. At first, you are gonna say 'whaa?', but then 'wow...'. It's gonna be awesome."
I sincerely doubt Panderan will blow anyones mind , insamuch that will be the day I unsubscribe , they look awful . Awesome is not a word I would use for these creatures .
Another quote iirc had something to do with , whatever race is chosen it will tie into the Outlands and will have a need to go back , Panderan again do not fit into this , at least not as far as I am aware .
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - lemekim - 04-20-2006
Raven Vale,Apr 20 2006, 03:55 PM Wrote:A Chris Metzen quote
"When we finally reveal the alliance race, it's gonna blow your mind. At first, you are gonna say 'whaa?', but then 'wow...'. It's gonna be awesome."
I sincerely doubt Panderan will blow anyones mind , insamuch that will be the day I unsubscribe , they look awful . Awesome is not a word I would use for these creatures .
Another quote iirc had something to do with , whatever race is chosen it will tie into the Outlands and will have a need to go back , Panderan again do not fit into this , at least not as far as I am aware .
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Well first, to be clear, I would prefer the new race to be Worgen or some form of Uncorrupted Draenai. Pandaren are not really my cup of tea. However, I still think that it is a viable, if not most viable choice, regardless of my tastes.
But to get back to the subject... This whole surprise thing... People already created so many speculations with various tidbits that seemingly support their theories, that it's fairly impossible to even name a race that hasn't been speculated about. Furbolgs? Mok'Nathal? Pandaren? Uncorrupted Draenei? Worgen? Goblins? Abominable Snowmen? Is there anything left that will "blow your mind"?
And if anyone is trying to figure out the race from the lore or any relevance to the current situation... It seems to be the last thing that Blizzard worry about. Just look at Blood Elves - a faction that left for Outland to be under Illidan's command magically joins Horde? Sure it makes sense now, or rather it was made to make sense through various lore given to us by Blizzard. And how about Forsaken? "People want to play undead, so let's make up some lore that kinda makes sense."
So, given Blizzard's previous track, they will most likely give people something that people want. If they decided that it will be Pandaren, well, I guess Blizzard thinks that a lot of people want to play Pandaren. And no lore or previous statements will stand in the way. =(
P.S. Mok'Nathal actually seems a somewhat "surprise" choice. Yes, Rexxar is on Horde side, but hey, Lore twisting and fact-adjustment is what Blizzard loves to do. But a doubtful choice in my mind, given the Rexxar connection and his statement that he is "the last of his people". Still, there are these...
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrus...rtwork.html?3@4
and
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrus...rtwork.html?3@4
They kind of look like Orcs, but the crest on the cape and in this picture is unlike any I have seen. Who knows.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Kevin - 04-20-2006
What about the Naga getting back with their old Night Elf Brethren?
I can't piece any good reason together now, but if you give me some time I could make something up. :)
Yeah I don't think anything withll blow my mind. I'll just have to figure out the line of BS that put them there. :)
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - JustAGuy - 04-20-2006
lemekim,Apr 20 2006, 12:36 PM Wrote:Well first, to be clear, I would prefer the new race to be Worgen or some form of Uncorrupted Draenai. Pandaren are not really my cup of tea. However, I still think that it is a viable, if not most viable choice, regardless of my tastes.
Worgen, according to the fake descriptions I've read, really sound neat. Thing is, a Worgen race would pretty much negate Humans as far as class/race selections go, except for Paladins. How many Worgen Rogue or Worgen Warriors would we see after the expansion comes out? When I think about Worgen, though, I think of wolfmen, and what a wolf man can do in terms of combat seems limited. I think of feral attacks, leading me to believe he'd be heavily melee, so warrior or rogue. Could you picture a wolfman standing back and casting? Or healing? What would be nice is if he had a shapeshift form where he'd get a melee boost, making him like the wolf druids in Diablo 2X. That would really screw with class balance though, so I'm thinking Worgen are out of the picture.
As for the Uncorrupted Draenai -- what does an uncorrupted one look like? Probably more plausible, but still unlikely. It's like tossing another gnome race at the alliance, except ugly. I doubt that race would be "attractive" enough to alliance players to get much action.
Quote:Is there anything left that will "blow your mind"? ...
P.S. Mok'Nathal actually seems a somewhat "surprise" choice. Yes, Rexxar is on Horde side, but hey, Lore twisting and fact-adjustment is what Blizzard loves to do. But a doubtful choice in my mind, given the Rexxar connection and his statement that he is "the last of his people". ...
They kind of look like Orcs, but the crest on the cape and in this picture is unlike any I have seen. Who knows.
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Looking at that, it opens the door to a new possibility. These Mok'Nathal are essentially orcs of a different faction. I don't think anything can blow our minds at this point, but personally, I would be entertained if there was an orc faction that allied itself with the humans instead of the warchief. After all, the Orcs and Humans were allied during WC3, but now their alliance has faltered. A seperate faction of orcs, kind of like the Dragonmaw (who are hostile to the Horde) could choose any side they wanted.
As far as messing up the lore, they could just say that their group of orcs were safe when whatever destruction befell their homeworld occurred. They somehow managed to find refuge somewhere. A cop out, but whatever. It's a new 'race'.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Raven Vale - 04-20-2006
I could go with Orcs , seen those pictures before , they could be a teaser or something to divert the attention away . But hey horde got elves , I see no reason why alliance wont get orcs . I do like the worgen idea , especially from the quest chain and understanding where these creatures were pulled from .
I vote some type of Orc :)
I really could go whaa , then oh yeah . Still not "Awesome" but I could live with that .
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Concillian - 04-20-2006
Lissa,Apr 19 2006, 02:24 PM Wrote:So, there is potential for there to be Ogres that are friendly towards the Alliance.
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Regardless, when you evaluate the current quest system, you have to admit how odd it would be for an ogre to have to don an ogre suit in order to speak with Kromcrush in order to complete one of the Dire Maul quests.
Rawr! I'm an Ogre... wait let me put on this disguise... okay tab A ... slot B.... okay!
There we go! Now I'm ... err... an Ogre!
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - lemekim - 04-20-2006
Concillian,Apr 20 2006, 09:39 PM Wrote:Regardless, when you evaluate the current quest system, you have to admit how odd it would be for an ogre to have to don an ogre suit in order to speak with Kromcrush in order to complete one of the Dire Maul quests.
Rawr! I'm an Ogre... wait let me put on this disguise... okay tab A ... slot B.... okay!
There we go! Now I'm ... err... an Ogre!
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In light of that, doesn't one of the Alliance quests also turn the user into a Furbolg? Given that we are speculating about a new Alliance race, I guess that rules them out too.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Sir_Die_alot - 04-21-2006
Gnollguy,Apr 18 2006, 08:03 AM Wrote:However is there anyway to get blood elf paladins by the lore we know?[right][snapback]107569[/snapback][/right]There is. I'd have to dig up my WC2 manual some place for a perfect quote, but the order of the silver hand, paladins, were brought into being due to clerics of northshire abby (or "priests") being found to be fragile for combat. The knights then where trained in the healing magics of the clerics (hence your knights become paladins through an upgrade in WC2). I don't see a problem with high elf priests being trained as warriors or warriors being trained as priests lore wise. When you train priests in WC3 they are all high elves and in the campaign even the last mission made use of priests.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Artega - 04-21-2006
Sir_Die_alot,Apr 20 2006, 08:33 PM Wrote:There is. I'd have to dig up my WC2 manual some place for a perfect quote, but the order of the silver hand, paladins, were brought into being due to clerics of northshire abby (or "priests") being found to be fragile for combat. The knights then where trained in the healing magics of the clerics (hence your knights become paladins through an upgrade in WC2). I don't see a problem with high elf priests being trained as warriors or warriors being trained as priests lore wise. When you train priests in WC3 they are all high elves and in the campaign even the last mission made use of priests.
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Except Blood Elves are not High Elves. While there were indeed Priests for use in the War3 campaign, that was more than likely for balance issues rather than lore.
Blood Elves have made a pact with a half-demon Night Elf - they're making deals with devils. I doubt The Light⢠would have much to do with them.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Sir_Die_alot - 04-21-2006
Artega,Apr 20 2006, 06:47 PM Wrote:Except Blood Elves are not High Elves.They are the high elves. They changed their name to blood elves to honor those lost when the scourge took Quel'thalas.
Quote:While there were indeed Priests for use in the War3 campaign, that was more than likely for balance issues rather than lore.They could have made up a different spell for healing for blood elves if they wanted. If nothing else the expansion showed just how powerful the map editor had become. No, high/blood elves have priests or they would not have made new priest modeles as blood elves.
Quote:Blood Elves have made a pact with a half-demon Night Elf - they're making deals with devils. I doubt The Light⢠would have much to do with them.I had a final edit in my post that I eventually left out but an open hole in warcraft lore is what "The Lightâ¢" is. Druids pull their power from the living world and nature, shamans similarly from elemental spirits. The magical energy elves have been tapping into has always been of demon origin. This is how they became "high elves" due to their banishment from night elf civilization. Later they tought humans about magic so humans tap into the same demonic powers the elves do. Dalaran was built on a node of this demonic/arcane power and just from the dalaran mages' use of it demons were able to enter the world and had to be hunted down. Human and elf magic are 1 in the same and both come from a demonic source.
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New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - JustAGuy - 04-21-2006
Sir_Die_alot,Apr 21 2006, 02:07 AM Wrote:...Later they tought humans about magic so humans tap into the same demonic powers the elves do. Dalaran was built on a node of this demonic/arcane power and just from the dalaran mages' use of it demons were able to enter the world and had to be hunted down. Human and elf magic are 1 in the same and both come from a demonic source.
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You are describing only one aspect of humanity's control of magic. This is separate from "The Light™", one of the few different types of magic humans have been known to wield; Demonic, Arcane, and Holy, to be precise.
The elves may have taught humans to use magic, but it doesn't all come from the same source. Only the warlocks use demonic magic. Paladins derive their magic from a divine source. If all human magic was the same, then there would be Dwarf Warlocks running around, seeing as they are capable of using Paladin magic.
You are correct in that there's no strict definition of what "Holy" magic is. All we know is that it's divine and is related to some sort of religious spirituality. It is clear, though, that it is not of the same source as demonic magic.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Derek - 05-07-2006
Sir_Die_alot,Apr 20 2006, 11:07 PM Wrote:I had a final edit in my post that I eventually left out but an open hole in warcraft lore is what "The Lightâ¢" is.
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Vorlons, of course.
The more I think about it, the more I suspect the new Dranei group "The Broken" implies that there's another batch of Dranei sitting around somewhere called "The Unbroken". It seems to fit the way Blizzard thinks. The big question is how you'd make a Dranei seem cool, and the best I can come up with is sound--make them sound like Protoss and people will beat a path to their door ;).
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - MongoJerry - 05-07-2006
Derek,May 7 2006, 10:04 AM Wrote:The more I think about it, the more I suspect the new Dranei group "The Broken" implies that there's another batch of Dranei sitting around somewhere called "The Unbroken". It seems to fit the way Blizzard thinks. The big question is how you'd make a Dranei seem cool, and the best I can come up with is sound--make them sound like Protoss and people will beat a path to their door ;).
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Does anyone else here think that Dreanei *would* be cool? I read so much bagging on the Dreanei with comments like "If the Draenei are the new Alliance race, that'd help fix the faction imbalance." But when I ran into the Draenei in the Swamp of Sorrows and the Blasted Lands in the beta, I was curiously fascinated by them and disappointed that more than a teaser backstory wasn't being given to me within the game.
New Alliance Race Speculation thickens! - Rinnhart - 05-07-2006
MongoJerry,May 7 2006, 09:32 AM Wrote:Does anyone else here think that Dreanei *would* be cool? I read so much bagging on the Dreanei with comments like "If the Draenei are the new Alliance race, that'd help fix the faction imbalance." But when I ran into the Draenei in the Swamp of Sorrows and the Blasted Lands in the beta, I was curiously fascinated by them and disappointed that more than a teaser backstory wasn't being given to me within the game.
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I'd honestly like to play one.