(07-21-2010, 05:38 PM)Chesspiece_face Wrote: Especially cheap when one could easily make the argument that, if not the only reason, the main reason she was even picked to run as Vice President was that she was a woman. Her very nomination appears as a statement that women are so stupid they will just vote for the one that has breasts.

(07-21-2010, 05:38 PM)Chesspiece_face Wrote: Especially cheap when one could easily make the argument that, if not the only reason, the main reason she was even picked to run as Vice President was that she was a woman.

Quote:Her very nomination appears as a statement that women are so stupid they will just vote for the one that has breasts.

(07-21-2010, 06:03 PM)kandrathe Wrote: But... we are comparing a Vice Presidential candidate against another Vice Presidential candidate. If she is disqualified due to her poor scholastic performance, then what about him?

Quote:Yeah? What's your point here? I disagree with a lot of the unreasonable stuff too, but there are some things there that are reasonable.

Quote:You know... I didn't vote for her either... I don't expect to turn you into a Palin supporter, just maybe you could drop some of the hatred and vitriol.

Quote:Her positions resonate with a large portion of the electorate, but they are not the same as yours. She didn't win, and now she's just another book writing talking head, like Laura Ingraham or Rachel Maddow.

(07-21-2010, 01:01 PM)kandrathe Wrote: How can you attribute this to the any Tea Party? It was outed by Breitbart on BigGovernment.com, I believe. Which, as far as I know, is a conservative 'Reagan Republican' blogger. He is as bad as Micheal Moore, and one of the worst in the cesspool of media distortion, and I would put him in the same category of propagandist. In reading his bio, it is not a surprise to me that he helped put together "The Huffingtion Post" as well. Then, I think Hannity had it on his show (another Reagan Republican). Currently, the Republican party is attempting to assimilate the "tea party", since their entire platform is anti-progressive (power to the people, small government, lower taxes). Bush Jr. (and even Reagan) represented a version of progressive Republican, which is what most of the Tea party (many of which are former Republicans) find distasteful. So, yes, you have people like Hannity, Breitbart, etc. who may speak at rallies, or defend the Tea Party movement, but it is doubtful that they (or FOX) represent the goals of the Tea Party. Of all the FOC talking heads, Beck probably (through the 912 project) inspired the Tea Party movement. 912 is essentially a mechanism for people with similar conservative interests to meet up at a local grass roots level. I've been meaning to make it to one of these meetings some day.

(07-21-2010, 05:38 PM)Chesspiece_face Wrote: Especially cheap when one could easily make the argument that, if not the only reason, the main reason she was even picked to run as Vice President was that she was a woman. Her very nomination appears as a statement that women are so stupid they will just vote for the one that has breasts.

(07-21-2010, 08:21 PM)Chesspiece_face Wrote: The issue of rascism has permeated a lot of factions within the Tea Party from the birthers to the signs people carry at their rallies to Glenn Beck saying Obama hates white people.

Quote:Calling Obama or the NAACP rascist is a way of alleviating and obfuscating the rascist elements within the Tea Party as well as attempting to make opponents less likely to call them out for these issues.

Levi Russell, Tea Party Express spokesman Wrote:“The racism accusation by the likes of the NAACP has been proved false time and again. Earlier this year, Democrats smeared tea party activists by claiming members of the Black Caucus were spit on and called the n-word as they paraded through a crowd of tea partiers,” he added. “Their blatant lie was proved false by overwhelming evidence from multiple video cameras that recorded the event.”

Quote:Reading the resume' is a respect I'd give any person seeking to be employed by me as my public servant. You might find her resume' lacking, which it is, compared to many who deserve the position.

(07-21-2010, 09:29 PM)kandrathe Wrote: I agree that some do-gooder conservatives (Breitbart, Hannity, et.al.) are making hay from the NAACP's politically motivated action. The liberal tactic of slanderously branding a vast category of millions of people (or even selected ones) racist is as reprehensible as is the trash tactics used by the Breitbarts, and Hannity's out there.

(07-21-2010, 09:29 PM)kandrathe Wrote: The Tea Party movement is not a third party movement ...

Quote:... but rather a set of principles regarding establishing the constitutionality of law (not fuzzy, but clearly), reducing the burden of government, and increasing personal liberty and prosperity.

Quote:They seek to hold their candidates, Republican or Democrat more accountable to serving the interests of the people, and not special interests.

Quote:I've heard it said that the Tea Party doesn't endorse candidates, but rather the candidate needs to choose to endorse the principles of the Tea party. It's the Democrats and the Republicans that use division and discord as political weapons.

(07-21-2010, 09:38 PM)Jester Wrote: If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride, and if we assume Sarah Palin is qualified to be President, then all we're doing is making an ass out of u and me, because the whole point is her spectacular lack of qualifications for one of the hardest jobs on earth.

Quote:We can judge her based on her performance in her last major elected post, where she decided to up and quit a job she'd been elected to. How does *that* read on a resume?

(07-21-2010, 09:38 PM)Chesspiece_face Wrote: You'd have a point if they actually did this. The NAACP resolution has never alledged that every person that associates with the Tea Party is a racist. The resolution specifically condemns extremist and racist elements that have arisen in the movement and calls for all people associated with the Tea Party to condemn and repudiate these acts.

Ben Jealous Wrote:Like Stormfront.org, a website founded by former KKK leader Don Black, the Council celebrates its allegiance to and influence in the Tea Party. The avowed racist David Duke notes that thousands of Tea Party activists have urged him to run for president. When the Tea Party marches by, Duke thinks it’s his fiesta.

Our members know too well the pain and the potential danger of white supremacist groups. Since our resolution was publicized, a number of our branches and our corporate offices are reporting violent threats.

We have all seen the blatantly racist signs portraying President Obama as a monkey. We have seen the press conference with the civil rights icon Rep. John Lewis describing how he was spit on and called the N-word, or Rep. Barney Frank being called a vicious slur for gay men.

Dick Armey and other Tea Party leaders have not only refused to disavow the racism — they have denied it.

(07-21-2010, 09:48 PM)Jester Wrote: Used to be an inchoate mass of discontent from the right wing of the Republican party, plus the original protester core of fringe lunatics, survivalists, Larouchies, the tattered remains of the Ron Paul Revolution, and so on.

Quote:Now it's just a media brand for the Republicans.

Quote:

Quote:They seek to hold their candidates, Republican or Democrat more accountable to serving the interests of the people, and not special interests.

I count exactly one Democratic candidate ever endorsed by the tea party, Walt Minnick. And he rejected it. All the rest are Republicans, and not generally moderate ones either.

Quote:

Quote:I've heard it said that the Tea Party doesn't endorse candidates, but rather the candidate needs to choose to endorse the principles of the Tea party. It's the Democrats and the Republicans that use division and discord as political weapons.

Google "tea party endorses" and read them off for yourself. (Rather comically, including an article about how the tea party endorses no candidates...)

(07-21-2010, 09:54 PM)kandrathe Wrote:

Quote:Dick Armey and other Tea Party leaders have not only refused to disavow the racism — they have denied it.

How do you prove you are not a racist, nor do you support racism in any form when the NAACP calls you a racist organization and compared you to Neo-Nazi's and the KKK?

(07-21-2010, 10:20 PM)kandrathe Wrote: The non-progressives.

Quote:When Karl Rove joins the Tea Party movement, you'll have convinced me.

Quote:The movement has its share of problems, like national coordination, and trying to remain separated from covert Republicans.

Quote:How many small government democrats are there?

Quote:Generally, Tea parties don't endorse...

Quote:There is a grave danger from being consumed by the Republican brand, but that is not what it is about.

(07-21-2010, 10:33 PM)Chesspiece_face Wrote: They've never asked anyone to prove they are not racist. They have pointed out specific acts of racism and called for people with voices within the Tea Party to stand up and say that these types of actions and statements are not only unacceptable within the Tea Party but also unacceptable within proper political discourse.

Quote:Unfortunately the go-to response from the Tea Party is to just say this is a minority and doesn't represent the entirety of the Tea Party. Ok, fine, it's a minority. But that doesn't make these acts any less racist. And by not openly addressing it and discounting it as if it isn't important they give an implicit message that it is acceptable.

(07-21-2010, 11:10 PM)Jester Wrote:

(07-21-2010, 10:20 PM)kandrathe Wrote: The non-progressives.

I seem to recall accusing you of abusing that word to the point of meaninglessness - I suppose I can't be terribly surprised that this has not changed.

Quote:Karl Rove is so last administration. How about Michael Steel? Or Sarah Palin? Or Newt Gingrich? Dick Armey? They've all expressed their support for the Tea Party, shown up at rallies, etc... These are not small players. These are the public faces of the Republican party, the movers and shakers: the head of the RNC, the former house majority leader, the last VP candidate.

Quote:Do you really need Karl Rove specifically to see the glaringly obvious?

Quote:Covert Republicans? How about *overt* Republicans? Look at any of the polls. The overwhelming majority of both participants and support are from the Republican party. A handful are either independent-lean-Republican, which are basically Republicans, or too-right-for-the-Republicans fringe lunatics. Almost none are from any other political orientation.

Quote:

Quote:How many small government democrats are there?

That fits fine with my point. The party obsessed with "small government," or at least the party that uses it as a constant catchphrase, is the Republican party. Out of whom is a small-government protest faction likely to be comprised? You guessed it... Republicans!

Quote:

Quote:Generally, Tea parties don't endorse...

"Generally," Tea Party movements, both national and local, have been endorsing rightist candidates across the country, primarying moderate Republican incumbents and trying to win seats for the movement. This would be the exact opposite of "generally not endorsing candidates." They've only existed for two years, and already they've endorsed dozens of candidates for everything from dogcatcher to senator.

Quote:

Quote:There is a grave danger from being consumed by the Republican brand, but that is not what it is about.

Om nom nom. Eated already. I can haz moar?

Quote:Check out this one as an example.

(07-20-2010, 10:54 PM)Jester Wrote: I believe we should use the information we have. I also believe context is critical in interpreting that information. I don't believe in "gotcha," I don't believe in scalp-taking or witch-hunting on the basis of snippets of evidence. I also don't believe that people are obligated to be saints, especially when they can expect privacy.

Racism is over the line. But saying one was once racist, once upon a time, is not the same thing, especially not in the context of an anecdote about how one learned that race is not the fundamental issue, but rather discrimination and powerlessness generally. People can change for the better, and honestly discussing that change should not be a career-ending mistake.

-Jester

(07-22-2010, 03:13 AM)Jester Wrote: Somehow, despite my best efforts, the two wings of this thread are getting squashed together.

Quote:The issue of racism is from the Sherrod wing. What she said was public. (It also wasn't racist, it's abundantly clear that she did her job just fine, and that this whole thing was extremely stupid, even by Breitbart's barrel-scraping standards.) She has no reasonable expectation of privacy, and as it turns out, needed none.

Quote:The issue of privacy is from the Journolist wing. What was said on that e-mail list was private.

Quote: There is no accusation there of anyone being racist. Salty language about political opponents was widely employed.

By Chris Moody - The Daily Caller Wrote:"If the right forces us all to either defend Wright or tear him down, no matter what we choose, we lose the game they’ve put upon us,” Ackerman wrote on the Journolist listserv in April 2008. “Instead, take one of them — Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares — and call them racists.”

While many members of the group voiced concerns about Ackerman on strategic grounds, there seemed to be no clear disagreement with the substance. The strongest repudiation came from Mark Schmitt, now at the liberal magazine the American Prospect, who said the tactic of calling conservatives racist would do nothing to advance the argument."

Quote:Dave Wiegel said some rude things about the Tea Party members, whom he was covering. I think they deserved every word. But even if they didn't, that should not be grounds for firing, especially when the person writing them was communicating among friends and colleagues, and not in the public sphere.

By Jonathan Strong - The Daily Caller Wrote:“There’s also the fact that neither the pundits, nor possibly the Republicans, will be punished for their crazy outbursts of racism. Newt Gingrich is an amoral blowhard who resigned in disgrace, and Pat Buchanan is an anti-Semite who was drummed out of the movement by William F. Buckley. Both are now polluting my inbox and TV with their bellowing and minority-bashing. They’re never going to go away or be deprived of their soapboxes,” Weigel wrote.

Of Matt Drudge, Weigel remarked, “It’s really a disgrace that an amoral shut-in like Drudge maintains the influence he does on the news cycle while gay-baiting, lying, and flubbing facts to this degree.”

Quote:Had he said racist things, that would be different. But he didn't, and neither did anyone else on Journolist. But nonetheless, their private communications were made public by their opponents (and yes, by Mickey Kaus, who is a complete lunatic), and used to wreck their careers - for their speech, not for their actions.