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Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Rhydderch Hael - 11-04-2003
Your opinion, if your reasons were sound and clearly defined, would be respected. However, what sets you in the wrong is your continual and baffling stream of subtle insults, followed by a flat-out refusal to make account for your insulting remarks. Every demand, every oppurtunity I give you to explain further gets met with another veiled insult and an air of "I don't need to bother myself explaining this to you."
It's like arguing with a mounted equistrian statue: the guy's on his high horse and he's deaf to rhyme or reason.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - ShadowHM - 11-04-2003
Rhydderch Hael,Nov 4 2003, 10:17 AM Wrote:It's like arguing with a mounted equestrian statue: the guy's on his high horse and he's deaf to rhyme or reason.For what it is worth, the only reason I was reading this ridiculous 'discussion' was because Rhydderch Hael was involved.
He seldom posts without content worth reading.
Ghostiger, on the other hand, fits the above description rather well. His posts are usually confrontational and often devoid of content. My solution, available to all here, including Ghostiger, is to not bother reading posts from certain people.
Pfft to all who can't be bothered to learn to actually read with comprehension and write with clarity. Over time, we all learn and decide for ourselves who those are.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Occhidiangela - 11-04-2003
Take your slavery red herring and stuff it.
How about you consider that over the past 6000 years, a variety of folks some of similar "racial stock" and some of other "racial stock" have conquered and sometimes even enslaved others on this planet. That relationship between the conqueror and the conquered is a fundamental part of the human condition. Slavery sucks no matter your color, ask any European taken to the slave markets of Algiers for about 400 years.
Your myopia is blinding you to an intelligent conversation. Open your eyes.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - TaiDaishar - 11-04-2003
Incredible, laughed my guts out.
P.S Why must you ruin such a magnificent piece of art with trivial arguments?
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - TaMeOlta - 11-04-2003
Will neural enhancers be required to play this game ? If I sell off any more pieces of my brain in order to keep up w/ rev changes and minimum requirements , I think my virtual wife will take away my sensory nodes !
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Guest - 11-04-2003
First you chide me for "'Tis far nobler than criticizing a person's perspective on a fictional work without ever bothering to clearly point out what irks you about it."
So I repeat again in almost childish simplcity "what irks you about it". Appearently finnally you bother to read it. Since you were obviously wrong in that stament, you act like you were addressing a seperate point - "your continual and baffling stream of subtle insults, followed by a flat-out refusal to make account for your insulting remarks"
This is a sperate matter. And you are right about the "high horse" in this regard, I think those comments spoke for themselves.
If I were to elaborate more this would be percieved as an attack on your person rather than on your product.
My later comments derived only from your response however are indeed personal.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Janitor - 11-04-2003
So how bout them cubs.
oh and btw amazing story, or is it true?
If so let me rekindle some of my childhood and say, "I wanna play!"
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - whyBish - 11-05-2003
Occhidiangela,Nov 5 2003, 06:32 AM Wrote:.Your suggestion for an age limit on BNet might have been better directed as a maturity limit on these forums ;)
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Guest - 11-05-2003
Ill avoid using outright personal insults like you have.
The entirety of my point is the he focused ona "white" and "black" relationship which happens to be the same colors found in a similular realtion shipin America(be it real or percieved).
My point is not about slavery, it is about carelessly linking reality and fiction for arbitrary purposes.
Look at his exact words.
"are the cultural minority that struggle against economic and social presure that come with the job of being the conquered"
Sounds awfully familier to me.
What is unwise here is not that he dealt with the topic of oppressed minorities, but rather that he did it with blacks and whites, and then used blacks as the opresser. Its not wrong, but I think he could have been a little more creative.
Your point Occi is entirely inconsequential to mine, but Im sure it made you feel good to rant about something, so you can feel that you defended him.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Guest - 11-05-2003
Ghostiger: I see myself in you, someone I was not long ago. I would advise you to return here when you (if you ever) mature.
If you can't do that then I recommend you keep your mouth shut and only say something if you believe that can add to the conversation.
And when I say add I don't mean in a way insult someone because of your stereotype thinking, because of problems with yourself. Those are, obviously, problems you should fix, not something you should take out on others. Maybe you'll understand what I (and others) am saying, when you grow up.
Quote:What is unwise here is not that he dealt with the topic of oppressed minorities, but rather that he did it with blacks and whites, and then used blacks as the opresser.
So then you shouldn't write about povetry, prostitution, murder, hate, mistakes, abuse, all just a fluffy bunny love world? Because what I quoted and said are just the same, no point in treating those subjects differently. I'd like to hear why you think racial issues are different. If black/white would of been woman/man instead, would you have responded the same?
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Occhidiangela - 11-05-2003
Quote:"are the cultural minority that struggle against economic and social presure that come with the job of being the conquered"
Sounds awfully familier to me.
Yes, the Saxons under Charlemagne and to a lesser extent the Hebrews in Medeival Spain, and the Arabs under the Ottoman Turks.
To say that you are missing the point is beyond obvious, so the next time you want to open your cakehole, have something to say that is more than just the beating of your gums.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Occhidiangela - 11-05-2003
But it would be only slightly more likely to have any real impact.
Bolty is a Free Speech advocate: anyone can open their mouth and present the emptiness of their inner intellect here, or they can present considerable their wit and wisdom.
Works for me.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Rhydderch Hael - 11-05-2003
In all truth, the Roman Empire serves as my model for that of the Zakarum: a highly advanced civilization borne upon the shoulders of a highly disciplined fighting force, conquering many and believing they can conquer all. That meant lots an lots of different people. Egyptians. Italians. Greeks. Gauls. Iberians. Britons. And more.
Roman concquest was not just black and white. The Zakarum should not be seen as so, either. One element of the Zakarum's reign that is detailed in the game is their persecution and attempted destruction of the old society and religion that existed in Kurast prior to the rise of the Zakarum: the faith of Skatsimâ which, judging by the appearance of the populace of Kurast, isn't about white people being crushed underfoot (there aren't any there!).
Like I said, you took one little aspect of the Zakarum's authority (as described in my interpretation of the society) and exploded it to assume it was the end-all and be-all of the Empire. It's sort of like saying every single Roman was a whacked-out nutter just because the nobility imbibed in "sugar of lead"â not accurate, and damaging to one's understanding of the backstory.
Big picture. You need to see the big picture. To see the forest from the trees. There's more to heaven and earth than what is granted in your philosophy. And... lastly, don't run with scissors.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Rhydderch Hael - 11-05-2003
Ghostiger,Nov 5 2003, 12:32 AM Wrote:The entirety of my point is the he focused ona "white" and "black" relationship which happens to be the same colors found in a similular realtion shipin America(be it real or percieved).You say I focused on the issue. I did, in that post, as that is what all the post needed to state (it was a response to that futuristic article's blurb that some people might take offense in seeing the Paladin depicted as a black man, after all).
My point is not about slavery, it is about carelessly linking reality and fiction for arbitrary purposes.
Look at his exact words.
"are the cultural minority that struggle against economic and social presure that come with the job of being the conquered"
Sounds awfully familier to me.
What is unwise here is not that he dealt with the topic of oppressed minorities, but rather that he did it with blacks and whites, and then used blacks as the opresser. Its not wrong, but I think he could have been a little more creative. ...
That does not mean I'll focus on it in the story. If you saw it to be a matter of blacks vs. whites, then you succumbed to a mistake of taking a very brief summary to heart. Let me deepen it a bit, then.
The Zakarum Empire has dominion over vast portions of Kehjistan, provinces in Aranoch (Lut Gholien is an independent city, but a garrison of Rangers march in and strut around acting as if they own the place thanks to Jerhyn's preoccupation with guarding the palace grounds), and is on the warpath in the western kingdoms. The cities of the Zakarum are not limited to just Kurast, Kingsport, and Duncraig. It is much more vast, encompassing many races, and extends it benefits to all those people (the idea is to convert the peoples to the Light, not to rule over them). In Westmarch, the racial lines are a little more delineated than most, due to the relative geographic isolation of the province (look at the map: Westmarch is at the end of a peninsula with "infidel" nations between it and the rest of the Empire). And it happens to be that the hero (and certain antagonists) hail from the province of Westmarch. There are other Paladins, other races, and other nations under the Zakarum. Our hero Paladin, however, comes from this one isolated province.
The western half of the Empire suffers a secular corruption: grown too dependent on word from Travincal, Duncraig grows ever fearful and paranoid when the mother capital ceases contact with the distant province. Westmarch panics and acts in what it sees as actions of defensive occupation. Knowing what had happened underneath Tristram and knowing that Diablo walks the earth only fuels that panic further. The eastern half of the Zakarum Empire, of course, falls under spiritual corruption, namely because Mephisto himself is running the show from Travincal.
The depicted description of the Zakarum Empire I made at first illustrates it has its origins in the eastâ but the empire itself has grown to encompass many more things. The current administrations of the Zakarum, painted by their origins but run by their present needs and desires, is a bit more complex than any simple and short description I write here can reveal.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Guest - 11-05-2003
If I beleived in anyway that he was making a point of exploring these issues for a useful purpose, I wouldnt have mentioned it at all.
Despite his later suggestions I still dont beleive that was the original intent. I think he was just creating a story to fit the game.
No subject matter in inappropriate - in the right context.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Occhidiangela - 11-05-2003
1. Assumptions: he has explained how they match his literary framework.
2. "No subject matter in inappropriate - in the right context."
That's not an unfair position to take in a general sense. Rather than run this thread ragged with more specifics on that thought, I will smile with glee and rejoice that you and I have found something in this thread on which to agree.
Beer is on me! :D
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - NeoLunar - 11-06-2003
Now I'm confused. Is this true or false?
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - AssA - 11-06-2003
It's a beautiful piece of fiction, NeoLunar. I really enjoyed reading this, it's almost as if it's real, alive. Truly magnificent, Brother Laz! :)
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - NeoLunar - 11-07-2003
Aw... Shucks...
If only it was a true story... I'd love playing it!!!
Anyways, thanks for the reply.
Diablo 3 Beta Test report - Occhidiangela - 11-07-2003
From the pen of Brother Laz and his fertile imagination.