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+--- Thread: ethereals (/thread-9500.html)
ethereals - adeyke - 01-16-2004
You need alvl 56. The alvl is based on both the qlvl and the ilvl. Download and read this for more information. It happens to be that, for the qlvl of a crystal sword, you need ilvl 61+ to get alvl 56+. For the qlvl of a dimensional blade, you need ilvl 74+ to get alvl 56+. Since the ilvl of an imbue is clvl + 4, you need clvl 57+ and 70+, respectively.
ethereals - Obi2Kenobi - 01-18-2004
How much do the requirements get reduced if an item is ethereal?
And, a possible bug: they changed ethereal items in 1.10 to be able to get maximum durability on items with enhanced durability. However, I don't remember ever finding an ethereal item without maximum durability. Is this how they "fixed" it?
ethereals - adeyke - 01-18-2004
Ethereals require 10 less strength and 10 less dexterity than a non-ethereal item. This reduction comes before the -% requirements, so it may end up being less than 10.
Example:
Suppose a base item requires 100 strength but a certain instance of that item has -50% requirements. This would then require 50 strength.
An ethereal of that base item would require 90 strength, and the -50% would make it 45.
So in this case, the ethereal requires just 5 less strength.
ethereals - AtomicKitKat - 01-19-2004
Let me get this perfectly clear.
Phase Blade=level 54 to use(base)
Dex needed=136(str is more or less irrelevant, since all classes except sorcs start with 15-25 str)
Ethereal Phase Blade=123 dex(give or take a point) and 23 str(+/- 1)
alvl to get cruel(or what?) 450% affix=56? Might be possible to roll for a soldier's/master's(except the top 2 of that affix set), to push for it?
So theoretically, if one can get to level 52 or so, one could imbue a crystal sword and hope for 450% ED?
What I'm worried about is that the upgrading will raise the level requirement beyond what I'm willing to "pay"(in terms of time and energy spent)
A Cruel Phase Blade of Quickness(socketed with dual shaels) might be an interesting weapon for an enchantress though(since most of her damage would be coming from the enchant rather than the physical) Other noteworthy characters include Kick-sins(tail/talon users) and Fire Claws Wereforms...
ethereals - GoshoHubaveca - 01-19-2004
the 450% ED people are referring to is not just cruel. cruel only gives 300 (although with the eth bonus it would be the same as 450%), but you can get more than that using the prefixes that give +dmg and AR. I took this from the AS so it might not be very accurate but it should be:
Cruel +201-300% Damage Weapons(51)
Lord's +101-120 to Attack Rating, Damage: +66-80% Weapons(47)
King's +121-150 to Attack Rating, Damage: +81-100% Weapons(56)
Master's +151-250 to Attack Rating, Damage: +101-150% Weapons(56)
As you can see Master's and King's both have a 56 lvl req which is 5 higher than cruel. unless you want to shoot for lord's (which is a pretty big ED loss) then you have to wait the extra 5 levels.
Edit: of course the chance you will get both cruel and master's are very very small, so it might not be worth the extra 5 levels. you might as well do it when cruel is available. 250-300% ED isn't that bad.
ethereals - adeyke - 01-19-2004
Quote:Phase Blade=level 54 to use(base)
That's the base.
Quote:Dex needed=136(str is more or less irrelevant, since all classes except sorcs start with 15-25 str)
Yes.
Quote:Ethereal Phase Blade=123 dex(give or take a point) and 23 str(+/- 1)
It's 126. 10 less than the non-ethereal one. We are talking about one without any -% requirements, no?
Quote:alvl to get cruel(or what?) 450% affix=56? Might be possible to roll for a soldier's/master's(except the top 2 of that affix set), to push for it?
450% is the result of two affixes:
Master's requires alvl 56+ to spawn and clvl 48+ to equip
Cruel (the new rare-enabled one) also requires alvl 56+ to spawn and clvl 48+ to equip
So a rare sword with alvl 56 can get both of these, and if they're both perfect, it's 450%.
Quote:So theoretically, if one can get to level 52 or so, one could imbue a crystal sword and hope for 450% ED?
You need at least 57. That would give ilvl 61, the minimum required to get alvl 56+ on a crystal sword (qlvl 11).
Quote:What I'm worried about is that the upgrading will raise the level requirement beyond what I'm willing to "pay"(in terms of time and energy spent)
A 450% phase blade found like that would require clvl 54+ to use (and there's no way for it to be ethereal).
A 450% dimensional blade upgraded to phase blade would require clvl 59+ to use.
A 450% crystal sword upgraded to dimensional blade and then to phase blade would require clvl 66+ to use.
Of course, if you also have affixes that require a higher clvl to use, the numbers would be higher.
ethereals - adeyke - 01-19-2004
Quote:cruel only gives 300 (although with the eth bonus it would be the same as 450%)
An ethereal 300% ED weapon would be equivalent to a non-ethereal 500% ED weapon, not 450%.
Quote:I took this from the AS so it might not be very accurate but it should be:
The AS affix pages are worthless.
The cruel that requires alvl 51+ isn't rare-enabled. The one that is rare-enabled requires alvl 56+.
Also, while it says they work on Weapons, no mention is made of the fact that orbs, staves and wands are excluded.
Also, the numbers in parentheses are the alvl requirement for those affixes to spawn (not the clvl requirement to use an item with those affixes; that information is missing entirely from the page). Nowhere on the page is a description of what an alvl is and how it's calculated. The explanations at the top of the page are absolutely and complete wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Really, don't use the AS affix pages for any sort of reference.
ethereals - AtomicKitKat - 01-19-2004
Quote:It's 126. 10 less than the non-ethereal one. We are talking about one without any -% requirements, no?
My bad. I thought it was -10% and not -10 flat.
So I'd estimate that a rare Screaming Cruel Master's (or replace any of these with one of the high end elemental damage prefixes, or +class skill or whatever your favourite is, or if you're lucky, 2 socket Mechanic's)Phase Blade of Quickness Vileness Transcendance(or Lamprey or Vampire or whatever) would be around clvl 80 to use?
ethereals - adeyke - 01-19-2004
Screaming = causes monster to flee 25%. If you instead meant Grinding (.75 max damage per clvl), it's in the same affix group as cruel, so they can't spawn together.
The clvl requirements for the affixes you listed:
Screaming: 7
Cruel (rare-enabled version): 48
Master's: 48
Mechanic's: 7
of Quickness: 38
of Vileness: 6
of Transcendence: 68
of the Lamprey: 43
of the Vampire: 48
The level requirement of a rare item is:
max(highest_affix_req, base_item_req) + req_adder
req_adder is normally 0 but is incremented by 5 for a normal->exceptional upgrade and 7 for an exceptional->elite upgrade
That means that, for any combination of the above that doesn't include "of Transcendence" (but which does include one of the clvl 48 requirement affixes, like cruel), the following still applies:
A phase blade found like that would require clvl 54+ to use (and there's no way for it to be ethereal).
A dimensional blade upgraded to phase blade would require clvl 59+ to use.
A crystal sword upgraded to dimensional blade and then to phase blade would require clvl 66+ to use.
If it does include "of Transcendence", the numbers are a bit higher:
A phase blade found like that would require clvl 68+ to use (and there's no way for it to be ethereal).
A dimensional blade upgraded to phase blade would require clvl 73+ to use.
A crystal sword upgraded to dimensional blade and then to phase blade would require clvl 80+ to use.
ethereals - Obi2Kenobi - 01-20-2004
Could you make an item like this with clvl 100+ to use?
ethereals - adeyke - 01-20-2004
No.
If you had a pair of rare gloves of freezing arrow and upgraded them from normal to elite, they'd require clvl 86 + 5 + 7 = 98 for a non-amazon to equip.
That's the highest you can get with rares/uniques, AFAIK.
ethereals - ak404 - 01-24-2004
Are you gonna correct them, adeyke?
ethereals - adeyke - 01-24-2004
I don't have any such plans, no. With the set items and uniques, it was possible to fix the pages by reporting errors. Sometimes a lot of errors, but the changes could all still be made within the framework of the existing pages.
With the affix pages, the entire thing would have to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch. There's nothing there to salvage and so much wrong and missing information. So it's not a question of fixing errors on the page, but of writing a new page, with a new layout, with new content, etc. That's the job of a webmaster, not of an error-reporter.
I haven't reported any bugs at all since my big batch. It's just disappointing when site updates "fix" things that I had done correctly but which someone else doesn't understand (see level requirement of Trang-Oul belt). And I'm not sure if error reports are really worth it.
ethereals - IKKE - 01-29-2004
Well ehhmm, if it got all of those fixthingys like cruel masters, than its magical right ?
so like the best sword u can get with like 450% ed, (cruel masters or something and etheral) is still magic ?
and if u upgrade it to Phase blade (from crystal blade) it etheraelness disappears? but the +% damage is still there ? im kinda confused by now, so, WHAT would be the best way
btw, cruel is magix suffix right ? so it cant be superior, so no whitey, so no runewords right ?
what would be the maximum for superior white crystal blade >? howmany %ED and can i get it to have 6 sockets @ larzuk ?, but wait, if its white, u cant upgarde it, can you upgrade runword items?, than you would have a superior crystal blade, upgrade it to phase, than socket it , and add runeword ?
ethereals - adeyke - 01-29-2004
Quote:Well ehhmm, if it got all of those fixthingys like cruel masters, than its magical right ?
so like the best sword u can get with like 450% ed, (cruel masters or something and etheral) is still magic ?
If you want two prefixes (cruel and master's), it'll have to be rare, not magic.
Quote:and if u upgrade it to Phase blade (from crystal blade) it etheraelness disappears? but the +% damage is still there ?
It's still ethereal. It's just also indestructible. So it has the advantages of etherealness, but not the disadvanatage.
Quote:btw, cruel is magix suffix right ?
There are two cruel affixes. Both work on magic items but only one works on rare items.
Quote:so it cant be superior, so no whitey, so no runewords right ?
Correct.
Quote:what would be the maximum for superior white crystal blade >? howmany %ED and can i get it to have 6 sockets @ larzuk ?
Superior weapons can get up to 15% ED. Crystal swords, dimensional blades, and phase blades can all get 6 sockets iff the ilvl is at least 41.
Quote:but wait, if its white, u cant upgarde it, can you upgrade runword items?
No.
Quote:than you would have a superior crystal blade, upgrade it to phase, than socket it , and add runeword ?
You can only upgrade rares and uniques. You can't make runewords in rares or uniques. Thus, there's no way to make an ethereal phase blade runeword.
ethereals - AtomicKitKat - 01-29-2004
Let's see. The idea here is that Phase Blade doesn't NORMALLY drop as ethereal, because it has no durability. HOWEVER, the normal version of it(Crystal Sword) has durability, and CAN drop as ethereal. After you upgrade it, it becomes an ethereal Phase Blade, requiring 12 levels more than a Phase Blade with the same stats, having lower Str/Dex requirements(I think), and the enhanced damage from ethereal.
I believe an item has to be minium magical, runeword(?), crafted(?), and maximum unique.
ethereals - IKKE - 01-31-2004
so what would be the best blade around??? a rare phase blade with etheral and masters+cruel ? (450%) ?
or would a runeword be nice in just a superior phase blade ?
ethereals - AtomicKitKat - 01-31-2004
I'd say an ethereal superior crystal sword with as many sockets as needed for whatever the "best"(as defined by whatever you think is best/achievable) runeword is, upgraded to Phase Blade. Of course, I could be wrong and runewords are not upgradeable, in which case, you're screwed. :lol:
Interesting thought. Does the old Crystal Sword Azurewrath still drop in Classic? Yes, I know it's silly to upgrade that, but it would be nice to have a more damaging version for mid-level MF runs. :P
ethereals - adeyke - 01-31-2004
Quote:Of course, I could be wrong and runewords are not upgradeable, in which case, you're screwed.
As was already stated, you can't upgraded runewords.
Quote:Interesting thought. Does the old Crystal Sword Azurewrath still drop in Classic?
No. Further, the upgrade recipes are expansion-only.
ethereals - AtomicKitKat - 02-01-2004
Nah, my plan was to play classic, get the AW, then upgrade it to expansion. I still wish they'd kept the old AW(under a different name) The page just looks so uneven without a unique crystal sword. :(