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+--- Thread: "I take responsibility" (/thread-5667.html)
"I take responsibility" - kandrathe - 09-14-2005
Walkiry,Sep 14 2005, 03:33 PM Wrote:...I'll just take it as that then, gross exageration and fatuous slander. My opinion of where you have obtained your bias might very well be inaccurate.
My post was full of hyperbole everywhere, not just with the FEMA remark.
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"I take responsibility" - Walkiry - 09-14-2005
kandrathe,Sep 14 2005, 09:43 PM Wrote:I'll just take it as that then, gross exageration and fatuous slander. My opinion of where you have obtained your bias might very well be inaccurate.
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Sigh. You just like being contrary for the sake of it, don't you.
From Wikipedia:
Quote:A hyperbole, largely synonymous with exaggeration and overstatement, is a figure of speech in which statements are exaggerated or extravagant. It may be used due to strong feelings or is used to create a strong impression and is not meant to be taken literally.
So no, don't take the "craptacular performance", "crooks" or "poo flinging" statements seriously, as they're exaggerated to give emphasis. DO take the statements from Bush and Annan seriously, because they said them as the news presented them.
If they feel there were enough problems to claim they "take responsibility" for them, they should indeed do something that equates "taking responsibility", not just move their mouths with empty words.
That's the gist of my post. Remind me to add a "fools digest" so that gits like you can understand it the next time I post.
"I take responsibility" - Minionman - 09-14-2005
Walkiry,Sep 14 2005, 09:33 AM Wrote:I can just picture Kofi sitting on his warm comfortable chair, casually looking through the several hundred (thousand?) pages document with a vacant, uninterested look on his face, close it up at the end and say "Yeah, ok. My bad. So what? Get off my office, I'm a busy man" before dismissing whoever brough the document with a complacent wave of his hand.
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I'm sure everyone is doing this, an that is a big reason for the complete emptiness of the words. Bush will probably continue appointing based on how he has appointed before, mayors/governors/other local people will forget the hurricane and not bother to look at their own plans, and people in general will forget about this after a few months. So the apology doesn't mean anything except "I hope you all feel better".
"I take responsibility" - kandrathe - 09-14-2005
Walkiry,Sep 14 2005, 03:55 PM Wrote:...*sigh* No I just get tired of uninformed irrational tirades. The words of Bush and Annan do speak for themselves when taken in context. I actually watched the entire press conference where Bush made that statement. Our mass media has a way of presenting information in a way that introduces bias. My view was that by your commentary you and others seem to have been hooked by "the spin" rather than wait for the facts to be revealed. You imply that this Bush admission of responsibility would justify impeachment, and you think I need a "fools digest".
Remind me to add a "fools digest" so that gits like you can understand it the next time I post.
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Since you have resorted to personal attacks... Good day.
"I take responsibility" - Walkiry - 09-14-2005
kandrathe,Sep 14 2005, 10:46 PM Wrote:You imply that this Bush admission of responsibility would justify impeachment, and you think I need a "fools digest".
Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick. Read the bloody wikipedia link already, read my clarification afterwards, made just for you. Read THIS: "they should indeed do something that equates 'taking responsibility'." Try to understand what is being said instead of focusing on the forms. The whole point is not what the appropiate action should be, it's that nothing happens.
Quote:Since you have resorted to personal attacks... Good day.
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Right after you claimed I was just doing some "fatuous slander," yes.
"I take responsibility" - Guest - 09-14-2005
Cry more please.
Seriously issues like this are beyong complex. People at all levels making mistakes, sometime as events happen some in the past causeing problems now.
What more can a person besides verbaly take responsibility and try to fix the problem? You dont have to forgive someone for mistakes - but to complain that they took responsibilty is nonsense.
There are many real issues(yes even the actual mistakes) you could reasonably complain about.
But this post is just lame ass whining.
"I take responsibility" - Guest - 09-14-2005
I think they were nicey pointing out that your talking out of your butt. See my post - its more direct.
"I take responsibility" - Minionman - 09-14-2005
Ghostiger,Sep 14 2005, 05:15 PM Wrote:Cry more please.
Seriously issues like this are beyong complex. People at all levels making mistakes, sometime as events happen some in the past causeing problems now.
What more can a person besides verbaly take responsibility and try to fix the problem? You dont have to forgive someone for mistakes - but to complain that they took responsibilty is nonsense.
There are many real issues(yes even the actual mistakes) you could reasonably complain about.
But this post is just lame ass whining.
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When someone says they will "take reponsibilty" or say that they "apologize", it means that they will put energy into fixing the problem and try and prevent it from happening. they also have to mean the apology. The second sentence does not seem true, it seems like the usual public relations statements that get made whenever something happens. The first sentence is probably not true either, some people will get fired, maybe a comission, but over time the hurricanbe gets forgotten and people go on to other things.
Sure, there are a lot of people who could have done more to handle the hurricane. The New Orleans government, the Louisian government could have done more. The federal government also. If I go farther back, Some other people could have been icked o run the important jobs. If I go farther back, I could talk about past people in New Orleans for leaving the city in such bad shape. I could attack the political culture that encourages people to pick friends and such, and elect people based on certain issues instead of other ones. The point of all this is that Bush had his own part in this hurricane mess, and if he apologizes for it, and "takes responsibility", he'd better actually mean it, and not just be spouting off.
"I take responsibility" - kandrathe - 09-15-2005
Maybe.
I think he was more taking responsibility in that as a leader you need to say, "The buck stops here." It's Bush's leadership style, "with a spine", which is sorely lacking in politics these days. You get the good and the bad though.
That's Texans. :D Right Occhi?
"I take responsibility" - Chaerophon - 09-15-2005
kandrathe,Sep 14 2005, 04:49 PM Wrote:Maybe.
I think he was more taking responsibility in that as a leader you need to say, "The buck stops here." It's Bush's leadership style, "with a spine", which is sorely lacking in politics these days. You get the good and the bad though.
That's Texans. :D Right Occhi?
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I don't get it - where's the spine? It's a meaningless, empty statement, with nothing behind it (aka it has no spine). Occhi has already said as much higher up in the thread.
"I take responsibility" - Chaerophon - 09-15-2005
Quote:Seriously issues like this are beyong complex. People at all levels making mistakes, sometime as events happen some in the past causeing problems now.
1.) See my post above. Complexity may be partially beside the point in determining Bush's moral culpability.
Quote:What more can a person besides verbaly take responsibility and try to fix the problem? You dont have to forgive someone for mistakes - but to complain that they took responsibilty is nonsense.
2.) What did he take responsibility for? He hasn't taken responsibility for the appointment of Brown; and that is the principle act for which I believe that he ought to be held accountable, for reasons listed in my post above.
"I take responsibility" - Minionman - 09-15-2005
kandrathe,Sep 14 2005, 06:49 PM Wrote:Maybe.
I think he was more taking responsibility in that as a leader you need to say, "The buck stops here." It's Bush's leadership style, "with a spine", which is sorely lacking in politics these days. You get the good and the bad though.
That's Texans. :D Right Occhi?
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If he actually makes changes that prevent the next disaster from being such a huge problem, that is taking responsibility. If he doesn't, than this line about "taking responsibility" is nothing but hot air.
"I take responsibility" - Guest - 09-15-2005
Youre whining too.
"The second sentence does not seem true"
With all the things wrong with the situation and youre complaining that you dont THINK people mean what they say?
Get over your selves. When you have even a modicum of evidense that he "he didnt really mean it" then you can consider whining.(BTW Im not defending Bush, Im just tired of whines about nothing when there are so many real issues.)
"I take responsibility" - Guest - 09-15-2005
Actually no.
Taking responsibilty in general is the most honorable approach - which Bush did. Addressing Brown(beyond removing him frim the situation which was correct) would just be shifting the blame.
I do think Bush doesnt take responsibilty for the Governers major screw ups(2 big ones) and the which is correct as she is independednt of him.
"I take responsibility" - Quark - 09-15-2005
Don't fret precious I'm here, step away from the window
Go back to sleep
Lay your head down child
I won't let the boogeyman come
Counting bodies like sheep
To the rhythm of the war drums
Pay no mind to the rabble
Pay no mind to the rabble
Head down, go to sleep
To the rhythm of the war drums
Pay no mind what other voices say
They don't care about you, like I do, like I do
Safe from pain and truth and choice and other poison devils,
See, they don't give a #$%& about you, like I do.
Just stay with me, safe and ignorant,
Go back to sleep
Go back to sleep
Lay your head down child
I won't let the boogeyman come
Count the bodies like sheep
To the rhythm of the war drums
Pay no mind to the rabble
Pay no mind to the rabble
Head down, go to sleep to the rhythm of the war drums
I'm tired of words. Words are lies, action is not. So far all this president has done is show good words and bad action.
"I take responsibility" - Walkiry - 09-15-2005
Ghostiger,Sep 15 2005, 12:17 AM Wrote:I think they were nicey pointing out that your talking out of your butt. See my post - its more direct.
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My talking out of my butt?
That aside, you also fail to realize that saying something does not equate doing something. Talk is cheap, and that's all we've seen. I've heard at least a dozen politicians say there is a clear need for an overhaul at the UN, usually followed by "but probably not until Kofi's time in office is finished." The reason that we take issue at "not meaning what they say" is that "taking responsibility" are pretty friggin' big words, they're not a simple statement of good will.
If the president of the most powerful nation in the world, or the General Secretary of the UN say they're taking responsibility for something, decisive action should follow. That's why they're the leaders.
Taking responsibility would, yes, be the honorable approach. But just saying the words is not.
Your post was indeed more direct, as in all you had to say was the equivalent of "waah waah stop crying", which doesn't make a real argument, just a petty pot shot. Pat yourself in the back if that's all you wanted to achieve, because you did.
"I take responsibility" - Guest - 09-15-2005
"talk is cheap" is not a valid complaint by it self. But essentially it is the entire basis for your post.
You thoughts basically are no deaper than "I dont like Bush".
Even 'Bush is ugly" is is a more valid insult than your drivel.
"I take responsibility" - Guest - 09-15-2005
Thats fine, but if youre not going to be impressed by words dont complain when you find words to unimpressive.
"I take responsibility" - Walkiry - 09-15-2005
Ghostiger,Sep 15 2005, 11:40 AM Wrote:"talk is cheap" is not a valid complaint by it self. But essentially it is the entire basis for your post.
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It is a very valid complaint. Talk is cheap, because a person who is given power is supposed to act on his words. Bush supposedly vowed to improve the disaster response after September 11th, 2001. Here we are, 2005; a hurricane later and it's not like we are in much better shape than we were. I think it's about time we see what this mythical "responsibility" thing is, not just hear Bushy boy mechanically move his mouth. The basis for my post is that must act according to their position, not just talk.
You seem to have a problem grasping that "act" part. This may be a shock to you, but politics are not just PR work during interviews.
Quote:You thoughts basically are no deaper than "I dont like Bush".
My thoughts are not "deaper" at all, whatever that means. As far as "I don't like Bush," it's pretty hard for me to imagine what thought process could reduce my posts to that. Then again, it's probably because you seem unable to grasp at anything more complex than the aforementioned phrase.
Quote:Even 'Bush is ugly" is is a more valid insult than your drivel.
I'm sorry you're so stupidly naive you can be suckered with empty words.
Quote:Thats fine, but if youre not going to be impressed by words dont complain when you find words to unimpressive.
The complaint is that we've got nothing but words. Acting on those words is not only more impressive, but required.
"I take responsibility" - Lady Vashj - 09-15-2005
*attempts to drag thread away from troll*
In other news, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco has officially "taken responsibility" herself.