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Rebalance the Warlock - Zippyy - 10-03-2005

Tuftears,Oct 3 2005, 03:03 PM Wrote:Crazy idea but what about allowing warlock shards to stack to 50 per slot?  Make warlock shard bags act as quivers, except they increase warlock chance-to-hit instead of ranged attack speed.

The point here is to commoditize the soul shard.  Since it's used so often, it shouldn't be considered a 'valuable' resource, which is the effect that limiting it to one per space has.
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The problem with shards is not inventory space, at least in my opinion. Other classes and professions have things that take up plenty of inventory space (hunters losing a whole bag, for example). Sure, shards will probably take up more than one bag, and stackable shards WOULD be fantastic, but it's the lesser issue.

The major issue, mainly on pvp servers, is the time required to farm for shards in order to defend yourself or participate in battlegrounds. I don't play on a pvp server, where the problem is even more exaggerated, but I do have to spend time farming shards for MC. An hour to gather 30 shards, simply so I can use abilities I should be able to use anyway? Healthstone, soulstone, summoning. Those are the only abilities I use in MC that require shards, and it can still easily drain me down to zero. It's easier the more warlocks there are, but it's still an absurd system.

Don't even mention that you can get shards in pvp... what is the point of using a channeled, low damage dot that has to be active when the target dies and is basically a huge neon arrow pointing directly at you? Another example of the "maybe this will shut them up" dev technique. :P

A final note. I am getting sick and tired of the devs saying "We're happy with the way soul shards are working." but not EVER saying why they are so bloody happy. They do not address any of the concerns we're discussing here, and keep offering vague promises of a shard bag which, unless it generates its own shards, will just be a drop in the bucket regarding the Shard Problem.

Rebalance the Warlock - lemekim - 10-03-2005

Lissa,Oct 3 2005, 07:27 PM Wrote:3 seconds every 2 minutes still will not be enough of an escape skill.  We come back to the same arguement Horde makes against Paladins using bubbles without realizing that 12 seconds out of every 300 does not help that much.  Warlocks have even less time for escape than Paladins.  3 seconds out of 120 seconds just means that Warlocks will still get steam rolled.  Warlocks need a true escape mechanism.  Until Blizzard nerfed the hell out of fear, we had that, no more.
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If you read a little closer, you would have noticed that I said "with the changes I listed above", meaning with instacast pets and removal of shards. Right now, 3 seconds is not enough time to do anything meaningful. With instacast pets, you will be able to switch to a new pet that is appropriate to the attacker. And without shard cost, you don't have to worry about wasting shards on pets and spells.

You are not thinking along the right direction. Reread the part in my post about instacast pets as to why the current pet system is bad and what needs to happen.

Rebalance the Warlock - Zippyy - 10-03-2005

Lissa,Oct 3 2005, 05:35 PM Wrote:You can't get rid of the Deathcoil fear with a trinket, WotF, etc.  The problem is, 3 seconds just isn't enough time for an escape ability.  An escape ability needs to give you a way to get some serious distance and 3 second fear won't do that.
Best solution for shards is to get rid of them or at minimum, not require them for damage spells.
I think Warlock talents are fine as they are right now.  I don't think we need any serious changes on talents or talents added.  What we need is things changed around directly, either new spells or spells made more effective.
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Seeing as we're supposed to be the debuff class... I would really like it if they gave us some debuffs.

Curse of Agony - DoT, not really a debuff
Curse of Recklessness - only useful for runner control, and is more of a buff than a debuff
Curse of Weakness - Technically a debuff, but Two thousand minus thirty one. do the math :(
Curse of Shadows/Elements - Technically a debuff, but it only makes our spells stronger and does not incapacitate the enemy in any way.
Curse of Exhaustion - a 5 point talent that helps... sometimes. At least it's a genuine debuff :)
Corruption - DoT, not really a debuff
Siphon Life - life-drain DoT, not really a debuff

When I think debuff class, I think D2 or GW Necromancer. How about some of those curses. Dim Vision? Iron Maiden (hah!). Come to think of it, all we really need is Cripple. :D

Rebalance the Warlock - kandrathe - 10-03-2005

Lissa,Oct 3 2005, 02:36 PM Wrote:... These are more than just annoying, they can be downright detrimental to play.
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No, I agree that they are needed changes. And, for sustained PVP in BG's they would be *balance* breakers, since there is no easy way to replenish lost shards. There are definately huge annoyances that a Warlock faces, in random non-BG PvP and PvE. I have avoided choosing spells that require shards, and avoid travel or choose methods that have a hope of keeping my pet around. It would be nice, and especially for PVP if a BG vendor sold shards(even if they evaporated once you leave the BG), and if shards would stack even to 5. It would be nice to have a way to "dismiss" the pet and recover the spent shard.

The implementation of the BG's is what has made the shard a problem. I'd say, why not allow extracting the souls of any victim? In fact, imprint the shard with the name of the victim. This makes some shards trophies, no?

Rebalance the Warlock - TheWesson - 10-03-2005

Zippyy,Oct 3 2005, 01:50 PM Wrote:Seeing as we're supposed to be the debuff class... I would really like it if they gave us some debuffs.

Curse of Agony - DoT, not really a debuff
Curse of Recklessness - only useful for runner control, and is more of a buff than a debuff
Curse of Weakness - Technically a debuff, but Two thousand minus thirty one.  do the math :(
Curse of Shadows/Elements - Technically a debuff, but it only makes our spells stronger and does not incapacitate the enemy in any way.
Curse of Exhaustion - a 5 point talent that helps... sometimes.  At least it's a genuine debuff :)
Corruption - DoT, not really a debuff
Siphon Life - life-drain DoT, not really a debuff

When I think debuff class, I think D2 or GW Necromancer.  How about some of those curses.  Dim Vision?  Iron Maiden (hah!).  Come to think of it, all we really need is Cripple. :D
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Ha ha, Dim Vision would be so excellent - clip all units for the afflicted player more than 10 feet away. Heck, they could use the same vision code as the ghost does.

Looking forward to playing my Affliction 'lock again when 1.8 hits ... not only are the DPS of the DoT's increased, but the DPS bonus of +spellpower items on DoT's should be improved as well.


Rebalance the Warlock - Zippyy - 10-04-2005

TheWesson,Oct 3 2005, 07:55 PM Wrote:Ha ha, Dim Vision would be so excellent - clip all units for the afflicted player more than 10 feet away.  Heck, they could use the same vision code as the ghost does.

Looking forward to playing my Affliction 'lock again when 1.8 hits ... not only are the DPS of the DoT's increased, but the DPS bonus of +spellpower items on DoT's should be improved as well.
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Keep in mind it's only Corruption and Curse of Agony that are getting bonuses. Both are having their duration cut by 2 ticks, I believe. I'll have to log onto test again and check. Siphon life, immolate, and drain life are the same.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited too :)

Rebalance the Warlock - Tuftears - 10-04-2005

Zippyy,Oct 3 2005, 02:50 PM Wrote:When I think debuff class, I think D2 or GW Necromancer.  How about some of those curses.  Dim Vision?  Iron Maiden (hah!).  Come to think of it, all we really need is Cripple. :D

Two words:

Life Tap

Rebalance the Warlock - Zippyy - 10-04-2005

Quote:
Tuftears,Oct 3 2005, 09:00 PM Wrote:Two words:

Life Tap
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Yeah? I don't get it. What does a mana-for-life spell have to do with debuffs?

It's just not clicking. :(

Edit: Nevermind, I am stupid! Original post left for shame and posterity. <_<

Rebalance the Warlock - WildFire - 10-04-2005

The only spell I would consider using a Soul Shard would be... Corpse Explosion.



Rebalance the Warlock - savaughn - 10-04-2005

WildFire,Oct 3 2005, 07:15 PM Wrote:The only spell I would consider using a Soul Shard would be... Corpse Explosion.
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So, if you blow up someone's corpse do they HAVE to rez at the Spirit Healer? :P

Rebalance the Warlock - Zarathustra - 10-04-2005

WildFire,Oct 3 2005, 08:15 PM Wrote:The only spell I would consider using a Soul Shard would be... Corpse Explosion.
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I don't care if it costs THREE shards... Corpse Explosion... *drools*

Rebalance the Warlock - Zippyy - 10-04-2005

Zarathustra,Oct 4 2005, 11:12 AM Wrote:I don't care if it costs THREE shards... Corpse Explosion... *drools*
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I can see it now... kill one giant, then BOOOOOOM, and the other giant dies. Unfortunately, the massive explosion for 200,000 damage also rips apart the raid and causes Molten Core to cave in.

(I think this thread is spreading beyond GG's original intentions. This is what happens when you give a wipped and beaten class that chance to dream!)

Rebalance the Warlock - Icebird - 10-04-2005

I'll be interested to see how they change the resistance system in the 1.9 patch. At the moment, the effect of Curse of Shadows is wildly unpredictable. With ruin, my shadowbolts hit for anywhere between 600 damage and 2600 damage. I'd be happy to trade those 3000+ point crits for most damage on *all* effected spells.

I would take away the soul shard cost for Shadowburn and Soulfire.

Soulfire has a 6 second cast (reducable to 4 after the patch) and has a 1 minute cooldown. About the only use I can think for it at the moment is in PvP against a seduced opponent.

Shadowburn is a talent spell, and has a 15 second cooldown. If you removed the shard cost, it would become a viable second method of generating shards.

The two spells have enough restrictions wihout the shard cost.

Turn Drain Soul into some kind of debuff that doesn't require channeling.

I'm witholding judgement on the escape mechanism issue until I've had a chance to test the buffed Death Coil more.

Rebalance the Warlock - Drasca - 10-05-2005

Biggest fix I'd like to see? Fix the official warlock interface. Kthxbye 1000 mods & scripts needed to do BASIC functions without having to click 2000 times.

Want a healthstone? Do I really have to drag healthstone creation onto a hot bar, diddle daddle search my inventory bags for it, select target to trade with, drag item into trade window (or over intended target), and hit accept twice/three times?

Helloooo soulshard mods. One button, ONE smart button, does all that for me. Click on target, click on health stone button, and it either creates or opens tradewindow with healthstone for me. It'd be nice if it automatically attempted to create within the party member's inventory, or detect healthstones. No need to ask, just create. Healthstones are a conjured buff, useable at any time, and unique. Why can't I create them inside my party member's inventory directly?

Oh yeah. Sooooo useful. What a skill! What about soul link? I need an auto-cancel when pet health is below a %, preferably dynamically set %, but anywhere from 10-40% is reasonable (i.e. too wounded to soul link).

There are also many tooltips that need to be corrected, and completely marginal talents revamped or removed from the game. Improved Curse of Weakness, Agony and Soul Drain come to mind. If Improved soul drain increased # of soul shards drained, that could actually be interesting (50% & 100% chance of extra shard respectively). Pyroclasm (chance to stun) should be quoted as being 1% actual chance to stun.

Let's face it, one of the reasons warlocks are hard to play is the difficult / insanely unwieldy interface mechanics. In their current forms, does fear / life drain / nightfall really need to face current target? No. Good locks, with good connections and hotkeyed/scripted commands get around these limiations.

What about curse of tongues? Gosh, I'd sure like that to actually be useful again. . . like, slow down mage AE spam, or add a global cooldown delay after casting spells.

That would be nice. However what's currently fixable is the interface, and tooltips. Give warlocks a cleaner, fluid interface, and they'll be a lot less frustrated. Make their game mechanics function as advertised, warlocks will be content. Fix the rest, let us be able to escape/defend, we'll actually be happy.

Rebalance the Warlock - JustAGuy - 10-06-2005

TheLuminaire,Oct 3 2005, 04:20 PM Wrote:Oh relax.&nbsp; It was a joke that obviously no one got.&nbsp; Remind me not to have a sense of humor in future.&nbsp; <_<
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It was a good joke, but it would have been a tad bit more obvious if you went with "lurn youre class noob", or anything with "noob" in it really. The more grammar and spelling mistakes, the better! LERN TO MAEK WITTY RIPOSTES NOOB!!1



Rebalance the Warlock - Icebird - 10-06-2005

They should change Curse of Weakness from straight damage reduction to an Attack Power debuff. There might actually be a use for it then.

Chris