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+--- Thread: Honest Question (/thread-4810.html)
Honest Question - Tal - 02-21-2006
Doc,Feb 21 2006, 01:07 PM Wrote:You want to know our library system so you can peek in for your self? Greenville. Good luck with that. Yes, I am sure they are going to tell you all of their dirty secrets, with you being a yankee outsider and all. (No offense.)
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Yep I am just dumb enough to call them up directly and ask those kinds of questions. Thanks for the credit Doc.
Honest Question - Doc - 02-21-2006
Tal,Feb 21 2006, 01:10 PM Wrote:Yep I am just dumb enough to call them up directly and ask those kinds of questions. Thanks for the credit Doc.
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I never said you were dumb. You are just barking up the wrong tree, that's all. Nothing wrong with that... I just don't see it going any where.
Honest Question - Mithrandir - 02-21-2006
Doc,Feb 21 2006, 02:09 AM Wrote:You can even slip profanity in to a G rated movie. In Transformers the Movie back in 1986, you had a #$%& and a #$%& in a G rated movie for kids. And you know, I don't think anybody actually cared.
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I would like to interrupt the discourse to state that Transformers: The Movie was perhaps the greatest animated movie I have ever seen. I remember seeing it as a little kid and crying when Optimus Prime died. In fact, watching T:TM with my dad is one of my earliest memories.
I guess I turned out okay despite all the "naughty words."
I would agree that this country has very odd views when it comes to violence vs. sex vs. language and what is deemed appropriate for viewing. Goes back to the country's Puritan roots I imagine. Language is all a big smokescreen anyways... what you say is not nearly as important as your true meaning behind it. I can swear like a sailor with (perhaps 'at'? :) ) my friends and not a second thought will be given to it because they know there is no antimosity meant. Just words. It is just as easy to turn a phrase that is seemingly innocent into the most vile, hateful series of words possible by putting malice behind it.
See 'Othello' for a lesson from The Bard on hatred, contempt and racism packaged together under the guise of "nice" language. Everything Iago says just drips with poison. I shudder just thinking about some lines form that play.
That said, the internet makes these things more difficult, naturally. It is much harder to know what someone truly means when there are no facial or vocal indications. Perhaps some discretion is indeed needed. I honestly don't know.
Is it really such a bad thing if a young teenager sees the word "#$%&" on these forums and goes and asks mom and dad what it means? I mean, he's gonna hear it soon anyways. I'd be absolutely floored if he hadn't heard or read it already in fact.
I guess I just balk at the idea of any policy which stifles the free expression of ideas... minor though it may be in this case (a couple alphanumeric characters in certain sequences replaced), that's still a couple less words that are legitimate means of expressing oneself in a language that is already an inadequate method of communicating *exactly* what one *truly* feels on occasion.
What is the word filter supposed to do? Shield us from swear words? Everyone knows what the word is anyway (or can at least narrow it down to a couple options and then based upon the context make a very logical guess), so what purpose does it serve?
Having said all that... I fully support any decision Bolty and the mods have made in this regard. Not my forum, not my rules. It's certainly a grey area and I can respect that.
Honest Question - Doc - 02-21-2006
Oh. And if you want a little taste of the straight dope... Do some searching for the "Hughes Salution" I have a feeling that some searching and reading in to this will lead you in some very interesting directions. There is a massive political agenda at work here. Both the schools and the libraries have changed considerably since this little venture. Bob Hughes came up with a cunning plan to enforce his own views and agendas and what not by doing what, well, er, whatever it was he did. I am still not sure what you would call it.
Several of the new libraries are named after him. He's the man with the plan. He bailed out the city school system and library system when they were $933 million in debt. The plan was multi part. There was the public face, which everybody saw and he became some sort of hero, and there was the other stuff... The not so public face. Our schools are already the worst in the nation. Books started disapearing from the schools. Books with questionable content. Grapes of Wrath. The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe. Anne Frank. Some stuff by Mark Twain. People showed concern about these missing books... And school librarians insisted that they were either checked out and not returned, or otherwise missing or just misplaced. Even before the big debate hit the media about evolution vs ID, our schools had already slipped in to ID as a model, teaching that dinosaurs didn't really exist and that the bones were all a hoax, and so on and so on.
Just thought you might be interested in finding the real truth. :whistling:
The schools are being rebuilt, the portable classrooms are slowly disapearing, the libraries are being upgraded and rebuilt, huge multi million dollar glass and steel modern art deco buildings, and things are being dragged in to the modern age... But at the cost of being shadowed by a group of folk with an agenda and an entire generation of children having their education distorted.
Honest Question - Tal - 02-21-2006
Doc,Feb 21 2006, 01:13 PM Wrote:I never said you were dumb. You are just barking up the wrong tree, that's all. Nothing wrong with that... I just don't see it going any where.
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I believe you are the one that planted that particular tree sir. You brought up that the library actually spent man hours altering a magazine so that they can bring it up to western standards.
I also find it hard to believe that for a system that has Playboy on Microfilm would spend money doing such a thing to National Geographic. My question to you is why spend time doing such a thing when its cheaper and easier to not carry the periodical in the first place? If someone was going to complain about National Geographic's nudity then why carry Playboy on Microfilm at all?
The only damning piece of evidence I was able to locate thus far about your library system is that they had the poor taste to buy my library science reference book for their Main Library. But I'll continue to poke around my contacts in SC and the Greenville system and see what turns up. :)
Honest Question - Doc - 02-21-2006
Tal,Feb 21 2006, 01:40 PM Wrote:I also find it hard to believe that for a system that has Playboy on Microfilm would spend money doing such a thing to National Geographic. My question to you is why spend time doing such a thing when its cheaper and easier to not carry the periodical in the first place? If someone was going to complain about National Geographic's nudity then why carry Playboy on Microfilm at all?
Adults see the porno. Children do not. Like I said, you can check out Playboy and other pornographic content by asking some old lady behind a desk for it. With any luck, you might get one of the really old ladies who will go about muttering "Oh dearie me" Having to ask said old lady is enough of a deterent to keep most people away, unless of course there are perverts with a particular fetish about asking little old ladies for porno. Which, there probably are and just thinking about that is making the coffee in my stomach curdle a bit.
Children do however, have access to NatGeo. (For now)
I really don't know the full numbers, so don't nail me to the wall for any misquotes, but probably over half of our library force is little old ladies auxilary groups and various volunteer groups. Friends of the Library, etc etc etc. These are the people that do most of the work. They putter around sorting books, returning them to the shelves, taping the tattered paperbacks... Hey, speaking of porno, when is somebody going to do something about the hardcore porn in the romance novel sections? Those damnable bodice ripper books talking about throbbing manhoods and so on? Nobody is doing a damn thing about those. Er, eh, sorry.
These folk do not get paid. They do however, get a lot of attention, being "professional" experts that work at the library, and when they start shouting "Wont somebody think of the children!" Everybody drops what they are doing and comes running to pay attention.
Honest Question - Tal - 02-21-2006
As has been pointed out to me via PM you're not really interested in discussing anything I will retire from the thread and leave you to mutter to yourself.
Honest Question - Occhidiangela - 02-21-2006
Tal,Feb 21 2006, 01:02 PM Wrote:As has been pointed out to me via PM you're not really interested in discussing anything I will retire from the thread and leave you to mutter to yourself.Were you perhaps mistaken for a shrink? Did you recently respec a Cleric as an empath? :rolleyes:
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Occhi
Honest Question - Archon_Wing - 02-22-2006
Actualy I didn't find much trouble with the sausage comment. For all we know, people who see innuendo when confronted with a sasuage may actualy be the sick ones. :D But perhaps this has been more of a long time issue?
I use profanity religously. ;p I use it in real life, and I use it on all the forums I frequent except the few that don't appreciate it, like this one. Actualy I still include it, but I just let the word filter block it for me. You all know what it means, but that's fine with me. Some people feel that such words are unnecessary, and apparently enough people feel like that. It really should be a problem to express what you think in a less profane way. Adapt your talk to the audience.
And back on topic, our current movie rating system is silly. ;p A few cuss words and a boob or two can easily drive up the rating, but it takes copious amounts of wanton violence and obvious disrepsect for life and other incredibly sick things to accomplish the same thing. But we all know having a movie rated "R" is a good way of attracting audiences?
"So much crazy and sick stuff, that you really don't want to see it. But you do anyways..."
Honest Question - Doc - 02-22-2006
"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it."
Honest Question - Griselda - 02-22-2006
Doc,Feb 21 2006, 06:05 PM Wrote:"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it."
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I thought you were going to drop it.
Honest Question - SwissMercenary - 02-22-2006
In regards to lounge posting guidelines, and how they are adhered to, I'd say that... Well...
I'm hardly a saint at commenting on this issue, considering that I have a tendency to drop bloodies, and hells every so often, but honestly, I'd say that I could do without some of the extremes of innuendo that were mentioned, when reading through the day's posts.
Take a poorly formed opinion for what you will.
Honest Question - Doc - 02-22-2006
Griselda,Feb 21 2006, 08:53 PM Wrote:I thought you were going to drop it.
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That was in response to Archon Wing's post. A simple paraphrase if you will. Nothing more.
Honest Question - Professor Frink - 02-22-2006
roguebanshee,Feb 21 2006, 08:16 AM Wrote:Doc,Feb 20 2006, 10:34 PM Wrote:What exactly is PG13?It was created to accomodate Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom since the other ratings were inappropriate, at least according to Spielberg & Lucas on one of the Indiana Jones dvd sets.
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On the other hand, my DVD of John Milius's masterpiece Red Dawn claims it is the first movie to receive a PG-13 rating.
Perhaps the meaning of PG-13 is "violence against Nazis and/or Communists"
-- frink
Honest Question - Munkay - 02-22-2006
Professor Frink,Feb 22 2006, 11:22 AM Wrote:It was created to accomodate Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom since the other ratings were inappropriate, at least according to Spielberg & Lucas on one of the Indiana Jones dvd sets.
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On the other hand, my DVD of John Milius's masterpiece Red Dawn claims it is the first movie to receive a PG-13 rating.
Perhaps the meaning of PG-13 is "violence against Nazis and/or Communists"
-- frink
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[/quote]
When in doubt, Wikipedia will help.
Quote:In 1984, two films associated with Steven Spielberg triggered calls for yet another addition to the list of ratings. [1] Violent scenes in the PG-rated films Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (which he directed) and Gremlins (which he produced), were the catalyst. Public outcry about the violence led Spielberg to suggest a new PG-13 rating to Jack Valenti, who conferred with theater owners and then introduced the new rating on July 1. The rating still allowed children under 13 to be admitted without a parent or guardian, but it cautions parents about potentially shocking violence or other offensive content. The first movie to gain widespread theatrical release with a PG-13 rating was 1984's Red Dawn (although the first to receive the classification was The Flamingo Kid).
Cheers on both being correct,
Munk
Edit: Quote blocks stopped working. Hrmm.
Honest Question - Occhidiangela - 02-22-2006
Professor Frink,Feb 22 2006, 10:22 AM Wrote:Perhaps the meaning of PG-13 is "violence against Nazis and/or Communists"Violence against Communists and other assorted whiners for 50, please, Alex. :D
-- frink
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Occhi
Honest Question - jahcs - 02-23-2006
Transformers is one of the best animated movies I have seen, and it's got a great soundtrack to boot.
One of the things that can ruin a movie for me is when cussing is put in just because. When it doesn't fit the mood, the character, or previous events it just interrupts the flow of the scene. I have a copy of Aliens on VHS and a copy that I recoreded off network t.v. way back when. I prefer the version off of t.v. because the cussing just wasn't neccesary in most situations. (And yes that does include some of Hudson's rants.) Another curiosity: they didn't edit out the bad words that were said in Spanish by Vasquez for the network t.v. version.
As far as language filters on the Lounge go, in my opinion, it would be far harder to keep flame wars and negative attitudes from the boards without it. We have gotten into some rip-roaring arguments here and profanity would just make it sink that much lower. The Lounge is one of those places on the internet where I can see discussions with at least a modicum of civility to them.
I have seen a trend over the years of what is deemed acceptable for t.v. and movies at specific ratings. When it comes to sex, profanity, violence, and drug use they have slowly been allowing more and more to get past the sensors. I recall a time when if there was a shooting in a t.v. show the shooter and the victim were never in the frame together, and there was almost certainly no blood (perhaps a trickle from the mouth during the dying words). Same with music. Take KISS, when they were first out that was 'hard rock devil music' for many folks. If you listen to it now it seems pretty tame when compared to what's come out since then.
And for those of you that think I may be trying to sit on a high horse and preach about the virtues of being profanity free I can cuss a green streak when pressed. Some of the folks in my platoon respond better to a few choice words in that direct fashion and others respond better to a more civil dialogue, it's situation and audience dependent.
Honest Question - Doc - 02-23-2006
For those of you unlucky enough to watch Transformers the Movie when it was on the big screen and have only seen the VHS or DVD versions...
The first sweary was when Unicron is coming to eat one of the moons of Cybertron. Spike says "aw shoot what are we going to do now!" Only this case, and I quote Carlin, shoot is something else with two o's.
The second was Wreck Gar. Residents of the Planet of Junk only spoke TV. When Unicron takes the junk ship in his giant planet smashing hand and squeezes it, Wreck Gar can be heard saying "We're forked. We are experiencing technical difficulties."
The third was never actually shown to most American audiences. And most folk don't even know about this scene, as it was cut from the US movie version. When Unicron attacks Cybertron, Shockwave, not Soundwave, but Shockwave, the second in command, the big purple pistol, is sitting in his command tower and sends out a call for help. Unicron smashes it with his fist. Shockwave's last words were "Scramble! Scramble! SCRAMBLE! Oh shoot."
I have the Japanese version on Laserdisk. It has subtitles.
I hear the 2005 Rhino re-release has some of the original footage restored.
Little known trivia fact. Transformers bleed when they are injured. They leak coolant, oil, hydralic fluid, whatever, but they bleed. In the US version, the gushing fluids were to much like blood. So they were reanimated to look like smoke billowing out. The ambush aboard the shuttle where a bunch of Autobots gets whacked is a veritable robot bloodbath. Gushing bodily fluids everywhere.
Honest Question - kandrathe - 02-24-2006
Doc,Feb 21 2006, 01:34 AM Wrote:Ok, really. Discussion time.I reserve expletives for times when they are appropriate, like that time when I smashed a thumb with a 5 lb sledge. I'm not sure what I said, but it made my father (the truck driver) blush.
...
Thoughts? Opinions? Flames?
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Honest Question - Doc - 02-24-2006
kandrathe,Feb 23 2006, 07:35 PM Wrote:I reserve expletives for times when they are appropriate, like that time when I smashed a thumb with a 5 lb sledge. I'm not sure what I said, but it made my father (the truck driver) blush.
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I feel that is appropriate. I find no fault in that.