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+--- Thread: 1.10 item changes (/thread-4725.html)
1.10 item changes - Kevin - 03-15-2006
Quark,Mar 14 2006, 07:22 PM Wrote:It can be a fill in for feral, but I find it a fill in at best. Reasoning:
Agi is more important than AP. Agi gives AP in cat, dodge in bear, and crit in both (well, dodge in cat but that's not too important).
Str = AP. They're completely equal, given itemization formula and bear/cat AP formula. The same isn't true for Rogues (1 AP = 1 Str, and AP costs half Str), so Rogues need to focus on AP more.
There's BoE pieces in most slots that could replace Cadaverous.
Better than having a green feral piece, probably, but since it's tweaked towards the 2 best stats for a Rogue (AP, Sta), it lacks in important stats for feral.
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Keep in mind the heart of the wild talent makes str even better for cats as you get 20% more str in cat form with it. I have to agree that Blizzard is trying to make a distintion on leather that +str is feral druid and +AP is rogue. Now, like you said either side of that equation can be upgrade gear for either class.
So 20 str = 48 AP in cat instead of just 40 if you have heart of the wild. The agi still does a 1 to 1 conversion of course.
But yeah I'm happy with some of these changes I'm seeing. Better for rogues and better for feral druids. Set bonus's could still make it quite attractive to both as well (stats on shadowcraft are actually pretty decent for feral druids but some of the bonuses do nothing for them as you with a 60 druid and 60 rogue are well aware. :) )
1.10 item changes - Artega - 03-15-2006
Wonderful. Screw over Fury Warriors that like fast two-handers more, please.
1.10 item changes - Ynir - 03-15-2006
Concillian,Mar 8 2006, 06:49 PM Wrote:Besides, Blackstone ring from the princess in Maraudon is a better melee ring if you are after +1% hit.[right][snapback]103906[/snapback][/right]
Yes, I have the staff for that run.
I also have the Nagelring, 1% hit. I see that's nerfed too :angry:
1.10 item changes - Concillian - 03-15-2006
Artega,Mar 14 2006, 05:37 PM Wrote:Wonderful. Screw over Fury Warriors that like fast two-handers more, please.
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Why let priests who like spirit have all the fun?
Which reminds me, who has some of the SPI nerfed item changes to report?
1.10 item changes - Quark - 03-15-2006
Concillian,Mar 14 2006, 11:24 PM Wrote:Why let priests who like spirit have all the fun?
Which reminds me, who has some of the SPI nerfed item changes to report?
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Haha! You call it a nerf!
I don't have a link on any of those changes, but every one of them turned an item from a joke to good in my eyes.
1.10 item changes - Concillian - 03-15-2006
Quark,Mar 15 2006, 05:14 AM Wrote:Haha! You call it a nerf!
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I called it a SPI nerf. As in Spirit was nerfed. Nothing to do with overall item quality.
But given that I was referring mainly to items that healers would be interested in... staves, cloth, etc... it might be considered an overall quality nerf by some, especially given the new priest talent that makes (some) additional use of high spirit.
1.10 item changes - Zarathustra - 03-15-2006
Gnollguy,Mar 14 2006, 06:36 PM Wrote:Keep in mind the heart of the wild talent makes str even better for cats as you get 20% more str in cat form with it. I have to agree that Blizzard is trying to make a distintion on leather that +str is feral druid and +AP is rogue. Now, like you said either side of that equation can be upgrade gear for either class.
So 20 str = 48 AP in cat instead of just 40 if you have heart of the wild. The agi still does a 1 to 1 conversion of course.
But yeah I'm happy with some of these changes I'm seeing. Better for rogues and better for feral druids. Set bonus's could still make it quite attractive to both as well (stats on shadowcraft are actually pretty decent for feral druids but some of the bonuses do nothing for them as you with a 60 druid and 60 rogue are well aware. :) )
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As I'm playing a Balance Druid, I'm a little rusty on my attack power conversions, but I was under the impression Cat = Rogue and Bear = Warrior. I thought it was 2 attack power for every strength in (Dire)Bear form, and 1 attack each for Strength and Agility in Cat form. Are you saying Strength is STILL 2 attack power in cat?
1.10 item changes - Tuftears - 03-15-2006
Yes, strength still equals 2 AP for cats, and cats get 1 AP per agility.
It may seem incredible, but remember that cats can never upgrade their 'base' weapon the way rogues can, hence we get better damage multipliers from skills and more attack power.
1.10 item changes - Zarathustra - 03-15-2006
Tuftears,Mar 15 2006, 01:36 PM Wrote:Yes, strength still equals 2 AP for cats, and cats get 1 AP per agility.
It may seem incredible, but remember that cats can never upgrade their 'base' weapon the way rogues can, hence we get better damage multipliers from skills and more attack power.
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*tips hat* Thank you for that confirmation. It makes some items like Nat Pagle's Fish Terminator that much more attractive.
1.10 item changes - Quark - 03-15-2006
Concillian,Mar 15 2006, 01:12 PM Wrote:But given that I was referring mainly to items that healers would be interested in... staves, cloth, etc... it might be considered an overall quality nerf by some, especially given the new priest talent that makes (some) additional use of high spirit.
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Bull. The items lost a little spirit to gain a lot of everything else. We know, by Blizzard's itemization formula, that pushing one stat on an item is costly.
Found some of the examples:
Guiding Stave of Wisdom
1.9 stats:
+10 stamina
+29 spirit
+10 frost resistance
1.10 stats:
+11 stamina
+10 spirit
+10 frost resistance
+53 healing
Was a priest-only item, and not that good of one. Now it's a healer item.
Cyclopean Band
1.9 stats:
+4 Strength
+4 Intellect
+15 Spirit
1.10 stats:
+4 Strength
+8 Stamina
+7 Intellect
+4 Spirit
+9 Damage/Healing
Wierd item, but you lose 11 spirit to gain 8 stamina, 3 intellect, and 9 damage/healing. That's a net +9 damage/healing just by moving stats around to be less focused.
Rosewine Circle
1.9 stats:
+7 agility
+16 spirit
1.10 stats:
+5 mana / 5 sec
+29 to heals
Before: completely worthless.
After: Hey, a reason to actually go to LBRS!
Tooth of Gnarr
1.9 stats:
+15 intellect
+10 spirit
1.10 stats:
+14 intellect
+8 stamina
+3 mana/5s
Before: Not bad for a priest.
After: Slight loss in mana regen for priests (I dunno)? Definate gain in mana regen for druids (we do exist, and we hate spirit because of our crappy regen formula!)
Spiritshroud Leggings
1.9 stats:
+5 agility
+10 stamina
+21 intellect
+21 spirit
1.10 stats:
+13 stamina
+16 intellect
+16 spirit
+35 healing
+35 healing, +3 stamina. Not a bad trade off, though not the best. Still better than it was.
Robes of the Royal Crown
1.9 stats:
+3 agility
+5 stamina
+9 intellect
+29 spirit
1.10 stats:
+19 stamina
+12 intellect
+10 spirit
+18 damage/healing
Much better overall, though here I agree they didn't need to pump sta so much to cut spirit by 2/3rds.
So maybe on two items they have less spirit than is optimally useful (for priests, not for anyone else). But they're all still better items than they were before.
1.10 item changes - Tuftears - 03-15-2006
Quote:After: Slight loss in mana regen for priests (I dunno)? Definate gain in mana regen for druids (we do exist, and we hate spirit because of our crappy regen formula!)
My druid likes spirit - it greatly increases the boost from innervate. Probably moonkins are the ones who would really like +mana/5 sec items, since they have no innervate and they're constantly casting.
Yes, we get somewhat less mana regen from spirit than priests do - still, better to know how much spirit your target priest has before you decide that they should get the innervate, because they may well have subscribed so heavily to +mana/5 sec items that they would get less mana from the innervate than you would.
1.10 item changes - Quark - 03-16-2006
Tuftears,Mar 15 2006, 06:47 PM Wrote:My druid likes spirit - it greatly increases the boost from innervate. Probably moonkins are the ones who would really like +mana/5 sec items, since they have no innervate and they're constantly casting.
My spirit, while not very high, is still enough to get a good boost out of Innervate. That's cause Innervate is awesome :P. But that Spirit/5 modifier that we get, compared to Spirit/4 for everyone else, really really hurts.
I'm not gonna pump a stat up so that I get extra benefit 1/18th of the time I'm playing. Spirit, though a stat I look at as a caster, is absolutely the last one. Give +mana/5 any day.
This is even more true since I started chain-casting Healing Touch (Rank 4) in some situations as my heal.
1.10 item changes - vor_lord - 03-16-2006
Quark,Mar 15 2006, 04:22 PM Wrote:Bull. The items lost a little spirit to gain a lot of everything else. We know, by Blizzard's itemization formula, that pushing one stat on an item is costly.
*snipped*
But they're all still better items than they were before.
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That's your opinion. Most of these items were interesting before precisely because they were high spirit. Now they fall into a sea of many similar nice, balanced blue items. They might see wider appeal, but now they are no longer of special interest.
I only want one "balanced" item per slot. I also want special purpose items.
Trindlehaven? Nerf, no longer has 30 intellect. Have to see about the Argent Crusader. My plan was to have it with +22 int, and Dancing Silver with +20 spirit. Use Argent Crusader at the start of a fight, swap to Dancing Silver (or Will of Arlokk if that will drop) once the extra int is used.
So call it an item buff if you wish -- it is still a spirit item nerf.
1.10 item changes - Professor Frink - 03-16-2006
Quark,Mar 15 2006, 03:22 PM Wrote:Bull. The items lost a little spirit to gain a lot of everything else. We know, by Blizzard's itemization formula, that pushing one stat on an item is costly.
Found some of the examples:
Guiding Stave of Wisdom
1.9 stats:
+10 stamina
+29 spirit
+10 frost resistance
1.10 stats:
+11 stamina
+10 spirit
+10 frost resistance
+53 healing
Was a priest-only item, and not that good of one. Now it's a healer item.
-snip-
So maybe on two items they have less spirit than is optimally useful (for priests, not for anyone else). But they're all still better items than they were before.
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Not at all a priest-only item--it was one of the best mana-regen weapons in the game. Put a +20 spi enchant on it and swich to it in combat whenever you get into mana regen or innervated. Useful for any class that has mana. I imagine this will make this item completely useless for 98% of the people who actually use one, and healers will continue to want a staff competitive with greens of the same level.
Can I do the quest to get a dancing silver to replace mine or has that been nerfed too?
-- frink
edit: losing good +spi jewelery will be annoying, too. The priest blue pvp set has 16 spi total, only the legs have any. a set of switch gear that crammed as much +spi as possible onto the slots not used made for nice balanced gear for soloing, where having near-default spirit made for painful downtimes and dangerous oom situations.
1.10 item changes - Zarathustra - 03-16-2006
Tuftears,Mar 15 2006, 05:47 PM Wrote:My druid likes spirit - it greatly increases the boost from innervate. Probably moonkins are the ones who would really like +mana/5 sec items, since they have no innervate and they're constantly casting.
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I agree that mana/5 is the way to go. But spirit shouldn't be completely dismissed. When I'm grinding in Moonkin form, I actually wear 3 pieces of Stormrage for the 15% casting regen. Sure, I could get a higher spell crit% or some more spell damage, but I prefer to have as little downtime as possible if I'm out grinding (and with those combat quests in Silithus... I'm grinding).
Plus, never underestimate the help of one's fellow Druids. In raids I think I may be the only offensive caster that gets Innervations now and then. *grins* The spirit can help there.
1.10 item changes - vor_lord - 03-16-2006
Professor Frink,Mar 16 2006, 06:57 AM Wrote:Can I do the quest to get a dancing silver to replace mine or has that been nerfed too?
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Nerfed too according to reports I read on the forums, can't find them now. :angry:
1.10 item changes - Xanthix - 03-16-2006
vor_lord,Mar 16 2006, 11:37 AM Wrote:Professor Frink,Mar 16 2006, 08:57 AM Wrote:Can I do the quest to get a dancing silver to replace mine or has that been nerfed too?Nerfed too according to reports I read on the forums, can't find them now. :angry:
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Actually on test my Dancing Sliver has the same stats. 12 int, 29 spirit. Which is good, because I went on the mother of all annoying quest chains to get it.
I am upset enough about many of the spirit armor pieces being changed into exactly the same as the balanced armor pieces; these were nice specialty pieces that appealed to niche players, but now they are like ever other high level blue. Good general stats but no variety!
1.10 item changes - Derek - 03-17-2006
Quark,Mar 15 2006, 04:22 PM Wrote:Cyclopean Band
1.9 stats:
+4 Strength
+4 Intellect
+15 Spirit
1.10 stats:
+4 Strength
+8 Stamina
+7 Intellect
+4 Spirit
+9 Damage/Healing
Wierd item, but ...
Not that weird--the new version looks targetted at paladins and shamans. The Eye of Adaegus is still a spirit-heavy ring, for those of you looking for one.
Quote:Spiritshroud Leggings
1.9 stats:
+5 agility
+10 stamina
+21 intellect
+21 spirit
1.10 stats:
+13 stamina
+16 intellect
+16 spirit
+35 healing
+35 healing, +3 stamina. Not a bad trade off, though not the best. Still better than it was.
They changed this one again. As of this morning it was, if I recall correctly, 11 sta, 16 int, 16 spi, 19 damage/healing. Sort of like Abyssal Cloth Pants of Sorcery with spirit instead of spell crit.
Also, since nobody's mentioned it yet, the Dustfeather Sash also changed. Lost 3 int, gained 9 dmg/heal; I don't recall if there were any other differences.
Some of the spirit gear is still the same, by the way, such as Vestments of the Atal'ai Prophet and the Featherskin Cape.
1.10 item changes - vor_lord - 03-17-2006
Derek,Mar 17 2006, 10:36 AM Wrote:They changed this one again. As of this morning it was, if I recall correctly, 11 sta, 16 int, 16 spi, 19 damage/healing. Sort of like Abyssal Cloth Pants of Sorcery with spirit instead of spell crit.
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Dang it, now mine are totally useless! With the previous +35 healing I could use them as more balanced healing pants than Padre's Trousers. Now, they are so middle of the road I can't think of what to use them for (damage gear I still have Skyshroud Leggings).
1.10 item changes - Lissa - 03-17-2006
Robe of the Void has also been changed around.
Use to be +14 Stamina, +49 Shadow damage, Heal Pet for 450 to 750 once every 10 minutes.
Now is +14 Sta, +46 all damage/healing, Heal Pet for 450 to 750 once very 10 minutes.
This is a big buff. While the Warlock loses 3 Shadow damage, RotV now helps with Fire damage as well.